India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[another_armchair]

Going through PLAF and noticing that they have shit ton of Flankers in Inventory.
Any Purpose of Having such a Kichadi of aircraft? Any Advantage?

Looks like the assorted Su-27 to Su-35 crafts in PLAAF inventory add up to 574.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Looks like the assorted Su-27 to Su-35 crafts in PLAAF inventory add up to 574.

At Max they will only deploy 1/3 of their Air Force towards us.

 

[Gautam Sarkar]

In a bid to bolster its capability to deploy troops and machines rapidly at remote places including the borders with China, the Indian Air Force has inducted the Chinook heavy-lift helicopters at the Mohanbari airbase in Assam.


Chinook of indian airforce spotted in laddakh

 

[another_armchair]

At Max they will only deploy 1/3 of their Air Force towards us.

Can't count on it.

The Chicom are not a reasonable lot.

If it reaches a point of no return, they will even throw their DJI's at us.

 

[Bhadra]

 

[Kumata]

BSF under current context should man IB and IA LoC. Where do you hear most terrorist infiltration coming from?
Extending each argument presented here and so logically can those be called intelligence failure? If there is a tradition of hanging the CO from the balls, only neutered chaps would be available for Higher Command (HC) course.
I am not exonorating BSF and other CAPF.
Check if BSF is positioned along LoC, if at all under whose command.

Manning and monitoring international border / LAC is a diff ball game and having a professional army in front of us is a different ball game.

Being a BSF ward and having spend few days on border, we know how difficult it is to monitor / control the line. Remember thief is always ahead of police and same holds true on border as well.

 

[Bhadra]

Guys, please stick to topic. Discuss arguments, not people.

@Major Sahab RR @Bhadra

Hey, comeon.. why me... that is what I have been telling all users...
You picking me for that advice is not in order. Show me any post I have named any individual...

 

[another_armchair]

Manning and monitoring international border / LAC is a diff ball game and having a professional army in front of us is a different ball game.

Being a BSF ward and having spend few days on border, we know how difficult it is to monitor / control the line. Remember thief is always ahead of police and same holds true on border as well.

If orders and instructions that flow from the top are crystal clear, I don't see a reason why the chap at the border will act any differently.

We have seen CAPF's perform extraordinarily well in Naxal infested areas and against overwhelming odds.

 

[Bhadra]

BSF under current context should man IB and IA LoC. Where do you hear most terrorist infiltration coming from?
Extending each argument presented here and so logically can those be called intelligence failure? If there is a tradition of hanging the CO from the balls, only neutered chaps would be available for Higher Command (HC) course.
I am not exonorating BSF and other CAPF.
Check if BSF is positioned along LoC, if at all under whose command.

Infiltration starts from an area deep in Pakistan.... Not getting their information is an intelligence failure. What is the doubt about that ?

Terrorists come for Kashmir and the border of Kashmir is LOC under Army. You want them to come from Andaman and Nicobar ? But they do come from all parts of IB and Nepal.

The point was about responsibility.
BSF when under command of Army is the responsibility of Army.
If ITBP is responsible for LAC they are the ones to be hanged for any fuck up.
The arguments are so simple. Why complicate yara....

 

[ladder]

Manning and monitoring international border / LAC is a diff ball game and having a professional army in front of us is a different ball game.

Being a BSF ward and having spend few days on border, we know how difficult it is to monitor / control the line. Remember thief is always ahead of police and same holds true on border as well.

2013 aggrement, older aggrement can also be found in this forum

India, China set to ink border pact to prevent face-off

What a joke! When was the last time China ever abided by any 'pact'?

defenceforumindia.com

Now coming to positioning ITBP at LAC

Chinese Troops Intrude into Indian Territory in Ladakh!!!

News article from 2009. National Security Advisor M K Narayanan will hold a meeting of the China Study Group – consisting of top officials including Cabinet Secretary K M Chandrasekhar and Secretaries of Defence, Home and Foreign Ministries Besides Chandrasekhar, the meeting will be...

defenceforumindia.com

So if you want to replace ITBP with army at LAC, let them (Army) assume those (mentioned in the above article,) responsibilities also.
They though have experience of those at LOC and officering Assam Rifles ( Burma Border).

PS. As ward of BSF officer you might be knowing Pak rangers are officered by Pak army officer on deputation. Thus I find your 'professional army' comment intriguing.

 

[daya]

I am not qualified enough to make ITBP a punching bag. Neither i am holding them resposnible nor saying otherwise... apologies if it sounded like that....

But i do see a problem there in that article...that's all.. ideally both ITBP & BSF should be under the direct command of Army and their DG should get a longer rope at helm....

literally a very good and much more hopeful wish, but the IPS lobby will ever accept this hopeful thinking...

 

[Kumata]

If orders and instructions that flow from the top are crystal clear, I don't see a reason why the chap at the border will act any differently.

We have seen CAPF's perform extraordinarily well in Naxal infested areas and against overwhelming odds.

CRPF is on their own... they are dealing with matters of internal security... enemy is identified and knows most of time....now compare that to border...

 

[another_armchair]

CRPF is on their own... they are dealing with matters of internal security... enemy is identified and knows most of time....now compare that to border...

The SOP for dealing with matters related to internal security for the CRPF are crystal clear.

When orders are sketchy or foggy, you see a state of flux followed by complete pandemonium like we saw in Delhi in the month of February.

We know BSF has different sets of orders on the Western border and the Eastern border.

On the Western border, you even shoot a fly infiltrating from across the fence.

On the Eastern border, you simply close your eyes and meditate. Even local police has more autonomy than BSF on our Eastern border.

 

[Bhadra]

So Friends , the cat is out of the bag.
Govt admits that the Chinese have taken threatened position opposite ridge on
Galwan nala. China does not want India building Road Darbuk - Shyok - DBO.

I think the bugle call will be made.
Abdullah's family in Kashmir say they will welcome Chinese.
Pulwama attack planned for today...
Nepal Communist trying to create problem. Kerala communist ready to fight along side China..
Congress reading for all internal disturbances..
Signs are not very ominous..

 

[Suryavanshi]

Have we tested the belt fed OFB machine gun in cold weather?

 

[Suryavanshi]

Signs are not very ominous

I think u meant to say signs are very ominous

 

[abhay rajput]

So Friends , the cat is out of the bag.
Govt admits that the Chinese have taken threatened position opposite ridge on
Galwan nala. China does not want India building Road Darbuk - Shyok - DBO.

I think the bugle call will be made.
Abdullah's family in Kashmir say they will welcome Chinese.
Pulwama attack planned for today...
Nepal Communist trying to create problem. Kerala communist ready to fight along side China..
Congress reading for all internal disturbances..
Signs are not very ominous..

There are armies one doesn't strike . There are leader's one doesn't test . Unlike in 2012-2013 we will not simply bulge down. The weakest strength of our military is our politicians. Even in 2013 our army was given order to stand firm we would not have lost those many area. We wouldn't have destroyed our own bunkers on our side of lac. They definitely have recieved the message on 27th and in the next few days they will retreat even from finger 4 and 5 where they dig up tents, just like how they retreat back from finger 2 on 22/23/24

 

[another_armchair]

So Friends , the cat is out of the bag.
Govt admits that the Chinese have taken threatened position opposite ridge on
Galwan nala. China does not want India building Road Darbuk - Shyok - DBO.

I think the bugle call will be made.
Abdullah's family in Kashmir say they will welcome Chinese.
Pulwama attack planned for today...
Nepal Communist trying to create problem. Kerala communist ready to fight along side China..
Congress reading for all internal disturbances..
Signs are not very ominous..

The Chinese are in Ajay Shuklas backyard.

The manhole lid is removed, there are noises coming from inside, possibly Mandarin which translates to 'Look, I found one more cockroach. Now lets go find some bats.'

All odds stacked against us. Dear me. War clouds on the border, internal disturbance, doomsday only.

If we step back, the Chinaman will demand more. If we haven't learnt anything about the current Govt. stand after Dokalam, Balakot and the period of July '19 and later, then we need to wake up and take a long hard look at the calendar again - The year is 2020, not 1962.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Some baba had predicted that 2020-2021 will test Modi.

 

[Bhadra]

As per Wiki, the Annual Budget estimate for ITBP is Rs. 6018.69 crores (2019-20 Est).

With 89,432 personnel, I wonder if there's any money left even for uniform allowance.

Last heard, each ITBP battalion was stripped of 6 MMG's and 4 mortars.

Amid border volatility, firepower of ITBP units cut by one-third

What a pathetic state of affairs.

We blew a surplus bounty of over Rs. 1,50,000 crores per year from excess fuel cess/tax since 2014-15 on toilets, building homes, smart city brochures and sundry other media blitzkriegs while our front line troops are starved of a decent rifle and Babudom remains in flux whether to import a rifle or make in India to score political brownie points.

A lot of those homes built for the poor were sold by those wretched souls in less than 3 months.

The present Govt. was voted to power on slogans of no more 'Dole ki sarkaar'. Jabse shapath grahan kiye hain, tab se Dole he diye ja rahe hain...

I believe the venerable INSAS remains to be the standard issue for the ITBP trooper.

Are they getting their pay and allowances or not ??
The question is what they have done to stop Chinese incursion in in ladakh... you wish to discuus their finacial status. Why do they need 20 IGs reduce the number of IGs to ten and save money..