India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[WARREN SS]

@ladder read this oped

Indian Defence Review

Indian Defence Review (IDR), quarterly journal, the brainchild of former captain of the Indian Army, was launched on January 1, 1986 as a logical continuum to Lancer established in 1979, the first Indian publishing house dedicated to put forward the military experience and point of view.

www.indiandefencereview.com

By Lt Gen (Dr) JS Bajwa

 

[Shashank Nayak]

That's not your original contention. You have to prove, if we make the aggrement toilet paper, how would ITBP conduct itself lesser than BSF?

Looks like all the Indo china peace and tranquility agreements will be as good as India Pakistan ceasefire agreement..

 

[ladder]

My orginal contention was ITBP is not armed as BSF
Agreement No agreement they need *81 mm Mortar And 105 mm Artillery like BSF

Its just Started getting Mechanized after Dokh lam Spat

ITBP unveils mechanised column for deployment on China border

Till now, only the Border Security Force (BSF) under the home ministry, that guards the Indo-Pak border, had an artillery unit and some mechanised components to aid it.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

120 mm mortar and 105 India/light field gun of BSF are under operational control of IA as they are Arty caliber and not infantry caliber.

So, you compare two CAPF, one who are not mandated to carry rifles while other are mandated to and conclude one who carries them have better training? Just because they carry them?

 

[Bhadra]

@ladder read this oped

Indian Defence Review

Indian Defence Review (IDR), quarterly journal, the brainchild of former captain of the Indian Army, was launched on January 1, 1986 as a logical continuum to Lancer established in 1979, the first Indian publishing house dedicated to put forward the military experience and point of view.

www.indiandefencereview.com

By Lt Gen (Dr) JS Bajwa

I am happy someone has written that article but not nuanced well.

It is appalling that NE Frontier HQ has 13 battalions under its command and five are on LAC - only one-third of the force and rest are perhaps crowding bungalows of Delhi.

Command and control of ITBP is big problem for the Army as the two agencies working independently of each other are bound to go on a tangent.
That could have been tolerable to IPS dominated CAPF but for the fact that the buck stops with the Army..

 

[Karthi]

Well They were Ambushed by PLA

You can see the diffence btw IA And ITBP
View attachment 49502

Later ITBP ambushed PLA also

 

[WARREN SS]

120 mm mortar and 105 India/light field gun of BSF are under operational control of IA as they are Arty caliber and not infantry caliber.

So, you compare two CAPF, one who are not mandated to carry rifles while other are mandated to and conclude one who carries them have better training? Just because they carry them?

You comparing Apple And oranges

BSF And ITBP is To different CAPF Raise for different roles

Read there Training Mechanisms are Operational rules of Both forces

While BSF is Mandated To Trained for Active border actions

Basically
The role of ITBP amplifies the tasks of the Force as – to guard the Northern borders and prevent violations and encroachments, prevent smuggling, unauthorized movement of goods, weapons, personnel and such like non-traditional threats in the border areas.

– ITBP does not have its own integral intelligence setup so essential in an operational situation.

– Thus the orientation of the force is essentially towards “policing” tasks.

 

[WARREN SS]

Later ITBP ambushed PLA also

It was IA And ITBP combine
watch video You can differentiate the gears

 

[Bhadra]

120 mm mortar and 105 India/light field gun of BSF are under operational control of IA as they are Arty caliber and not infantry caliber.

So, you compare two CAPF, one who are not mandated to carry rifles while other are mandated to and conclude one who carries them have better training? Just because they carry them?

You stretch the arguments too far...
When did you see PLA troops or BDR troops armed on LAC ?
Have you seen Army soldiers carrying their weapons to LAC patrolling..

When was an ITBP constable shot at LAC ?? ITBP patrol do not have even an officer .... It is very rear to see an ITBP officer outside his tent... it is like Badri Darshan.

Let us have a referendum amongst ITPB constables if they would prefer to serve with an Army Officer or an ITBP officer...

Cry Baby..

 

[ladder]

@Bhadra, can you please do me a favor by very briefly state the difference between RR and regular infantry soldier. With the focus on why reorientation is required for soldiers going back to infantry units and not just Arty regiments from RR.

Members like me need a good view about the difference in roles of infantry, RR and border guards.

 

[ladder]

You stretch the arguments too far...
When did you see PLA troops or BDR troops armed on LAC ?
Have you seen Army soldiers carrying their weapons to LAC patrolling..

When was an ITBP constable shot at LAC ?? ITBP patrol do not have even an officer .... It is very rear to see an ITBP officer outside his tent... it is like Badri Darshan.

Let us have a referendum amongst ITPB constables if they would prefer to serve with an Army Officer or an ITBP officer...

Cry Baby..

Try to read the series of argument from beginning to understand the context.
Otherwise the joke is on you.

 

[ladder]

You comparing Apple And oranges

BSF And ITBP is To different CAPF Raise for different roles

Read there Training Mechanisms are Operational rules of Both forces

While BSF is Mandated To Trained for Active border actions

Basically
The role of ITBP amplifies the tasks of the Force as – to guard the Northern borders and prevent violations and encroachments, prevent smuggling, unauthorized movement of goods, weapons, personnel and such like non-traditional threats in the border areas.

– ITBP does not have its own integral intelligence setup so essential in an operational situation.

– Thus the orientation of the force is essentially towards “policing” tasks.

It was me?

Exactly Like BSF Better get them Ghataks Then those Shity Insas Provide them Whatever BSF has on LOC(Mortar,Field guns Snipers etc )
Better Treat LAC as LOC now
Enough is Enough Chinese Taking It for Granted
they need A iron hand

No Sir.

 

[Cartel Boss]

India is a democracy and therefor power centers need to be distributed or else India will become a banana republic where everything is run by the army. For this reason command of military including army needs to fall under defense ministry and command of paramilitary forces including coast guards need to fall under home ministry. I am in agreement though that paramilitary forces need to be better trained and equipped. Heck, even Kolkata traffic police needs to be better trained and equipped.

 

[ladder]

You are a master of misinformation.

Both BSF and ITBP are border policing forces with identical roles - one for Indo Pak and Indo - Bangladesh border and the other for India- China border. See the web sites of both the forces.

However to begin with and many years thereafter - ITBP was a special purpose force, unlike BSF. Later on that role went to SSB and now the IPS led CAPF have washed their hands off that unprofitable job.

ITBP 1962 to coordinate with IB
SSB 1963 to coordinate with RAW.
SSB is not successor to ITBP

 

[WARREN SS]

You are a master of misinformation.

Both BSF and ITBP are border policing forces with identical roles - one for Indo Pak and Indo - Bangladesh border and the other for India- China border. See the web sites of both the forces.

However to begin with and many years thereafter - ITBP was a special purpose force, unlike BSF. Later on that role went to SSB and now the IPS led CAPF have washed their hands off that unprofitable job.

You Quoted Oped I posted Read It

LT gen Bajwa

Also see Why Chinese Don't take ITBP seriously

adios

 

[Blue Water Navy]

@Bhadra, can you please do me a favor by very briefly state the difference between RR and regular infantry soldier. With the focus on why reorientation is required for soldiers going back to infantry units and not just Arty regiments from RR.

Members like me need a good view about the difference in roles of infantry, RR and border guards.

RR's are from different branches of the military. Trained additionally to search, cordon off & engage (to kill and/or neutralize) terrorists. I am sure @Bhadra will have some input here but if its to put in one line then this is it.

 

[WARREN SS]

India is a democracy and therefor power centers need to be distributed or else India will become a banana republic where everything is run by the army. For this reason command of military including army needs to fall under defense ministry and command of paramilitary forces including coast guards need to fall under home ministry. I am in agreement though that paramilitary forces need to be better trained and equipped. Heck, even Kolkata traffic police needs to be better trained and equipped.

US Has National Guard For Internal security So democratic argument Flawed

I Should better Advise Use of TA of For Role Of CRPF on the Lines Of National Guards

John Warner National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2007



`Sec. 333. Interference with State and Federal law`The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy, if it--`(1) so hinders the execution of the laws of that State, and of the United States within the State, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or`(2) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.In any situation covered by clause (1), the State shall be considered to have denied the equal protection of the laws secured by the Constitution

 

[samsaptaka]

So, what is our plan of action, just match chinkies build up and stare at them while they sit 2km inside our line of perception and deny us patrol opportunities and thus slowly inch the LAC even further towards our side ? Or are we going to act as a nation with bollocks and do some reverse capture elsewhere? Frankly I dont like the reverse capture idea. Now what I would like to have happened in the meeting is this:

IA Lt Gen to chinkie lizard - “So, you guys want a meeting eh ? Let me tell you this clearly, I’m giving you 2 days time, yes 48hrs, if you don’t vacate our land, we will bomb the fuck out of you with pinaka, bofors and airstrikes. Now fuck off..” and walk out. Don’t listen to a single word the lizard says.

Chinkies wait for 48 hrs....building up ..expecting action, single kid soldiers possibly even peeing in their pants .. 2 days pass, 3 days, a whole week, nothing...IA even offers them sweets for the chinks CO‘s birthday etc....
Lizard likes his jalebis, he is about to put one in his mouth. IA party which gave the sweets have returned. Lizard CO is thinking “perhaps I should have captured one of them fkrs...” BAM! Pinaka barrage, bofors, Mirage drops a 1000 pounder. Entire chinkie camp is vaporized. No chinkie left to even think what happened.

Will this lead to a war - maybe ? Is it worth it ? Difficult to say....lives will be lost.
Easy for us armchair specialists to want war. But then how long can we allow chinks to keep salami slicing ?

Talks will climb up the chain of command until it reaches Modi vs Xi Jinping . Then there will be a fist fight between them at the lake . winner takes all .

Hahah I like your way of thinking. Modi is Yudhisthira asking Xi Duryodhana for mano o mano gadayuddham. Modi naively says entire bhaarath is yours if you defeat me ! Where is Krishna to stop such naive thinking ? Ajit Doval ?

 

[Jailor]

Or are we going to act as a nation with bollocks and do some reverse capture elsewhere?

Apparently its already done in starting itself in a tit for tat, hence the heavy buildup.

 

[SavageKing456]

Got confirmation guys. The commander level talks on LAC ended and China is not ready to reduce troops or leave area. The stand off will continue.

Corp Commander Lt Gen Harinder Singh has reached the 14 Corps HQ. He has forwarded the situation report to Northern Army Commander Lt Gen YK Joshi, who will now forward it to the Army HQ with his comments. Army HQ will then discuss it with MoD, PMO, NSA, etc.

Don't expect any official statement on the meeting today.

Told already this thing won't end until near mid june

 

[samsaptaka]

Apparently its already done in starting itself in a tit for tat, hence the heavy buildup.

Where have we captured ? Why is it not visible in OSINT ? There are only vague claims that we intruded, but I don’t think we have established camps like them and launched a buildup after intruding with the intent to occupy like them.