India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[Hari Sud]

Has this Chinese withdrawal is a victory of sorts for India? .... India always wanted them to withdraw. They were not willing to withdraw and they wished to retain the strategic advantage of overlooking the new road India has built. Well they lost this advantage...... That is a loss of face for the Chinese. Now onwards that psychological advantage they enjoyed over India of 1962 debacle and superior numbers overall has been laid to rest. Those 60 or so Chinese dead with their necks broken, body parts missing and defaced with their own nail studded baseball bats has a telling affects on their own troops. Numbers have no advantage if these are located on the East Coast. 4000km away.

My point is that stop falling into the trap of Chinese hardware numbers and Chinese troops superiority in the field. Believe it or not, the local Chinese troops Have been demoralized With the sight of broken necks.

 

[Proxy1234]

Can you cite me where I have said 4 dead.

Have been told have claimed 4

PS: I am not that jackass Shuklaji

I gave a figure of 10 + 20 of dead ... in phased manners and stick to overall casualties i.e number of dead and wounded being higher on our sides. This was my statement in immediate aftermath.

The bolded statement is interesting. Why report Indian losses in the immediate aftermath and not wait for an Indian response figures to come up? Because then the Chinese lost way more and this didn't suit Chinese narrative?

Kindly answer it to clear everything for once:
Are total Chinese dead/unfit to return to duty after 16 June more than India or less than India? (Ofcourse, as per your estimates, because rumours say 35/43 Chinese dead).

@Hellfire All the past confusions of 4 / 10+20 / 35 / 43 can be cleared here, if you give your estimates to the above question. Time will tell the actual truth of course, but want to get your answer, so that no more misconceptions arise about '4' or anything else and I will rest my case here.

 

[Piyadassi]

but their main objective has not been achieved. DSDBO road continues and it’s feeder roads will also be built.

DSDBO's just an excuse. China's too huge to get intimidated by just a road.

 

[Sanglamorre]

Well. . Indian language has always been subdued and minimal during any confrontation with China. So, it was during doklam. Its the chinese who indulge in bluster.
When it comes to Pakistan, Modi gov. indulges in bluster all the time..

Being subdued in normal times can be explained by not wanting to rake up tension where there isn't. But after losing soldiers? That's just odd.

 

[Sehwag213]

Being subdued in normal times can be explained by not wanting to rake up tension where there isn't. But after losing soldiers? That's just odd.

Considering that we were aggressors, fight happened in their side, they probably lost more soldiers it is understandable

 

[utubekhiladi]

DSDBO's just an excuse. China's too huge to get intimidated by just a road.

actually, that road gives jitters to Chinese and its not just about that road... please watch the below video. our khan sir clearly explains why this road send shivers down their spine. its narrated in hindi. i promise this video is worth your time.. please watch

 

[IndiaRising]

DSDBO's just an excuse. China's too huge to get intimidated by just a road.

DSDBO is just one of the projects.

 

[Blue Water Navy]

This is their miserable life.


Curiously of course the most vocal indians will refuse for commit to a map... presumably so they can goalpost shift & claim the chinese are still inside

Seriously, I find these guys extremely confusing some times. I mean which side they are on?? Anyway??

Govt?? Against Govt? Pro-Congress? Anti- Congress? Pro-China? Anti-China? Liberal? Patriot? Realist? Dreamer?? WWHHAATT??

 

[Hijibiji]

The bolded statement is interesting. Why report Indian losses in the immediate aftermath and not wait for an Indian response figures to come up? Because then the Chinese lost way more and this didn't suit Chinese narrative?

In a defence forum, everyone does not like to wait for an "official indian response" to come. In any case, the enemies (both external and internal) don't wait to spread their propaganda, so, what's the harm in knowing an estimate of casualties in "immediate aftermath" from someone who is a known member of this forum? The onus is on the reader to decide who he considers trustworthy/ reliable and who he does not.

@Hellfire All the past confusions of 4 / 10+20 / 35 / 43 can be cleared here, if you give your estimates to the above question. Time will tell the actual truth of course, but want to get your answer, so that no more misconceptions arise about '4' or anything else and I will rest my case here.

How do you know that time will tell the truth? Do we know all truth of 1962 or 1947 even today?
And i can't resist saying this- it was you who got confused with @Hellfire ji's "4" and now everything has been clarified about that "4", so why don't you just rest your case there? It's just your case, is not it? Will the case - of whether 4 died or 40 died - on this side or that side- be critical in deciding the "ultimate victory"?

 

[defc0n]

Has this Chinese withdrawal is a victory of sorts for India? .... India always wanted them to withdraw. They were not willing to withdraw and they wished to retain the strategic advantage of overlooking the new road India has built. Well they lost this advantage...... That is a loss of face for the Chinese. Now onwards that psychological advantage they enjoyed over India of 1962 debacle and superior numbers overall has been laid to rest. Those 60 or so Chinese dead with their necks broken, body parts missing and defaced with their own nail studded baseball bats has a telling affects on their own troops. Numbers have no advantage if these are located on the East Coast. 4000km away.

My point is that stop falling into the trap of Chinese hardware numbers and Chinese troops superiority in the field. Believe it or not, the local Chinese troops Have been demoralized With the sight of broken necks.

I hate to point it out, but the process of disengagement has just started and they have just moved 2 KMs.
Chinese being Chinese, we cannot be sure about anything that involves them. Loss of face is something that they too will be wary of, mind you, they have a very good reason to keep up a brave face.

Loss of face will result in them being more vulnerable to other countries that they have issues with and they have a lot of that. So, they will try their level best to at least make it look like they moved on their own terms which in reality translates to violation of the terms discussed with India.

So, for now, it is just the fact that disengagement has started, nothing more, nothing less.
Even the reason might be for all we know the rising waters in the area they captured. So what happens next should not be taken for granted.

 

[bose]

What India must do now after the changed scenario ... Do not relax rather double your effort to arm the Army and Air Force...

1. In a war footing build and complete all LaC infrastructure such as roads, bridges and airfields.
2. Ban all strikes at Ordinance Factories and other defense production units.
3. Fast track defense acquisition for 36 more Rafale & Mig 35 [ Cancel MMRCA 2.0].
4. Look for additional Mirage 2000 & Mig 29s [ upgrade them to UPG] from countries willing to sell.
5. Order more Spike ER ATGMs units.
6. More Barak - 2 ER SAM units.
7. More artillery units with Excalibur ammunition.

More "make in India" from privately owned production ...

 

[Bhadra]

So.. what do you think.. If Indian Army patrols upto PP14, then it means, India has not accepted any change to status quo ante w.r.t april 2020 ground situation... So, will we patrol upto PP 14 ?

The disengagement is going away from proximity of two sides so that there is no eyaball deployment. That does not in any manner prejudice the LAC or claim to LAC.
Secondly so far disengagement is concerned it is for three locations - PP14. PP15. PP!&and PP!7A. It is not for entire LAC. There has not been any agreement with respect to LAC.
Military level commanders can not and are not authorized to determine LAC but determine only he military matters.

Bufer zone simply means each side will pull down structures from the designated areas and shall not make any military structures there.

Thirdly Points like PP14 are common Points between two sides = that is we patrol upto PP14 and Chinese also patrol upto PP14... same is the case with common Passes Like Nathu La where Chinese also come and go back..

 

[LETHALFORCE]

With army in mind, Pakistan chooses China over United States

Before the world was able to visualise the impact of the pandemic, Pakistan was in a comfortable position on the foreign policy front, particularly the China-US matrix.

www.hindustantimes.com

With army in mind, Pakistan chooses China over United States

 

[LETHALFORCE]

U.S. operations in the South China Sea show that Washington is 'not backing down,' expert says

Gregory Poling of the CSIS said U.S. allies are "very nervous" because China has been "pushing on all fronts" over the past few months.

www.cnbc.com

U.S. operations in the South China Sea show that Washington is ‘not backing down

 

[mokoman]

DSDBO's just an excuse. China's too huge to get intimidated by just a road.

Before 1962 war China offered to a land swap with us for Aksai Chin . Same was offered again to Rajiv Gandhi .

Aksai chin is valuable to Chinese cause of the road G219 passing through it .

Going by what i read on Chinese forums DSDBO helps us dominate Galwan valley which will threaten Aksai Chin which in turn threatens G219.

 

[tarunraju]

What India must do now after the changed scenario ... Do not relax rather double your effort to arm the Army and Air Force...

1. In a war footing build and complete all LaC infrastructure such as roads, bridges and airfields.
2. Ban all strikes at Ordinance Factories and other defense production units.
3. Fast track defense acquisition for 36 more Rafale & Mig 35 [ Cancel MMRCA 2.0].
4. Look for additional Mirage 2000 & Mig 29s [ upgrade them to UPG] for countries willing to sell.
5. Order more Spike ER ATGMs units.
6. More Barak - 2 ER SAM units.
7. More artillery units with Excalibur ammunition.

More "make in India" from privately owned production ...

1962 will play heavily on Delhi now, and it will move heaven and earth to prepare itself for October. By then we'll have Rafale + Meteor, a big chunk of our emergency spares and ammo orders to Russia, Israel, and the US will be fulfilled, and in the meantime, Indian Army will acquire the right infantry gear for Ladakh's icy winters. India will also double-down on dislodging Oli in Kathmandu.

Although our deployment will step back in accordance with whatever Doval and Wang agreed; there won't be any scale-down in the deployment. We'll keep an eye on what chicoms are up to and mirror them at every step. Army should immediately bolster the Eastern sector, and engage in talks with Bhutan to proactively deploy within Bhutanese territory.

Lastly, 2 months is a godsend for all road/bridge building works in all sectors.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Before 1962 war China offered to a land swap with us for Aksai Chin . Same was offered again to Rajiv Gandhi .

Aksai chin is valuable to Chinese cause of the road G219 passing through it .

Going by what i read on Chinese forums DSDBO helps us dominate Galwan valley which will threaten Aksai Chin which in turn threatens G219.

Chinese dream of taking whole Aksai China and Kashmir and linking up with Pakistan
This would solve CPEC and BRI obstacle that India has become.

 

[kaaleshwaar]

Why isn't government arresting this bastards

People like him make me think, no matter how brutal the punishments from ancient periods seem, they are totally justified against such people.

 

[Piyadassi]

I hate to point it out, but the process of disengagement has just started and they have just moved 2 KMs.
Chinese being Chinese, we cannot be sure about anything that involves them. Loss of face is something that they too will be wary of, mind you, they have a very good reason to keep up a brave face.

Loss of face will result in them being more vulnerable to other countries that they have issues with and they have a lot of that. So, they will try their level best to at least make it look like they moved on their own terms which in reality translates to violation of the terms discussed with India.

So, for now, it is just the fact that disengagement has started, nothing more, nothing less.
Even the reason might be for all we know the rising waters in the area they captured. So what happens next should not be taken for granted.

Makes sense completely.

 

[Proxy1234]

In a defence forum, everyone does not like to wait for an "official indian response" to come. In any case, the enemies (both external and internal) don't wait to spread their propaganda, so, what's the harm in knowing an estimate of casualties in "immediate aftermath" from someone who is a known member of this forum? The onus is on the reader to decide who he considers trustworthy/ reliable and who he does not.

That is because Indian response came a little after, until then Indian loss was greater. It all suited Chinese narrative and this is Indian forum, not Pakistani or Chinese. In fact the Indian response had occurred but @Hellfire did not mention those numbers, either because he didn't get the updated info or it didn't suit Chinese narrative.

How do you know that time will tell the truth? Do we know all truth of 1962 or 1947 even today?
And i can't resist saying this- it was you who got confused with @Hellfire ji's "4" and now everything has been clarified about that "4", so why don't you just rest your case there? It's just your case, is not it?

All this confusion was with respect to low Indian dead when compared to Chinese as per @Hellfire , which is not true as per 'rumours'. It is part of the Chinese narrative which was so blatantly being spread few days ago. You don't need to resist, please post what you want to and my clarifications will come if necessary.

Will the case - of whether 4 died or 40 died - on this side or that side- be critical in deciding the "ultimate victory"?

If that is the case, then why bother mentioning Indian losses on 15 June? It all started when it was mentioned that India suffered heavily and fought bravely but still Chinese got much less losses. Don't mention those then, why play double game?