India China LAC & International Border Discussions

[garg_bharat]

Why did India buy Mig-29?

Because India has many pilots qualified on Mig-29. This is the simple answer.

Remember pilot is a scarce resource in wartime, as important as the aircraft itself.

India missed the opportunity to buy F-16 then F-21. These should have been bought long time back.

Even we buy F-16 now, it will take time to train pilots. So it is a lost opportunity.

A squad or two of F-35 with pilot training in the USA? Makes sense.

 

[garg_bharat]

India should buy more attack helicopters, anti tank missiles, stinger missiles, and infantry items like rifles, personal protection gear from USA ASAP.

Anti materiel rifles may be effective against drones and helicopters. Such items should be high priority.

 

[sydsnyper]

My friends in software industry tell that Chinese apps can be replaced within months by similar local apps. Even if not as secure or scalable, the apps will give an emotional release to our teenagers.

Not necessarily, it depends on the app. For example, something like a cam scanner can be relatively easily replicated by anyone. But something like TattiTok requires a massive backend, then the availability and the geo positioning of the backend, the management and security of the backend then its level of coupling with the frontend app. Not saying that it is technically a problem, but it is an expensive affair... a very expensive affair.

 

[LDev]

It's not the 3-4 odd surface vessels we should worry about, but the 5-7 subs, a few of which could be SSBNs. Indian Navy is getting quite an education in ASW.

If only congis didn't to Augusta-Westland scam, those Kamorta-class corvettes would have had ASW helos, which would have multiplied our ASW capabilities. Never forgive congress.

The Indian Navy also now has a very good ASW capability thanks to the now 12 P-8i aircraft which are dedicated to ASW deployment in the Indian Ocean and Arabian Sea. And because of the COMACOSA agreement signed with the US, the Indian Navy will get real time information of PLAN submarines and ships that transit into the Indian Ocean region from the South China sea, tracked both by the USN assets as well as P-8s of the Australian Navy.

 

[Bhadra]

For Dhanush Chanters,OFB Bubus and Indegenious soul Cry Babies

Delays hits production of Dhanush guns Published July 2, 2020

​

Covid outbreak has hit the supply of Dhanush 155x45mm artillery guns, the Indian version of Bofors, to the army. The weapon systems are being made at the Gun Carriage Factory (GCF), Jabalpur, in MP. The first batch of six guns was issued from the GCF in April 2019. This year the factory was supposed to supply another six to eight guns. However, no dispatch could happen as the Covid lockdown hampered operations at the factory.

It is learnt four guns are ready for issue after trials, but could not be delivered to the army due to logistics hurdles. Another batch has been built, but the trials could not happen on account of lockdown. The total supply of the Dhanush guns would still be short of equipping one full artillery regiment this year. Sources said after building the entire gun, each piece has to be proven fit for use after trials. The ranges are in other states and access to the area was not possible due to the lockdown. The ranges are located in two different corners of the country, they said.

After the factory reopened in June, the production process remains slow as workers have to follow Covid prevention standard operating procedure (SOP), a source said.

This coupled with procedural hurdles is expected to delay completion of entire project by one year. After the project was initiated in 2010 , Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) got a bulk production clearance to make the guns in 2019. The army has placed an indent for 114 Dhanush guns. The order is supposed to be completed in four years but it may now take five, said sources.

It is expected the current year’s batch may be delivered in a couple of months with delivery of the guns that have already been proven to happen before that. GCF will have to scale up its production to 50 guns a year from 2021 to meet targets. At present, the factory is operating at its optimum capacity. Much of the new machines have been procured and the process continues.

Though based on Swedish Bofors, Dhanush is an advanced weapon system with higher range and accuracy. It took a series of trials for the army to finally place an order for 114. The guns have fired 5,000 rounds during trials to get the final clearance. This was a record on its own.

The ordnance factories are also upgunning the existing 130 mm guns with the army to 155mm. This will help increasing their range. Named Sharang, the factory is supposed to deliver 300 guns. This project is also expected to be delayed by a year, said sources.

You go to Ladakh and Fight the battle. We will follow you after five years.

http://idrw.org/delays-hits-production-of-dhanush-

http://guns/

 

[sydsnyper]

A squad or two of F-35 with pilot training in the USA? Makes sense.

Nope. Not right now. The F-35 is a unicorn mostly and even if the IAF deems it as necessary, it will still require years of work to incorporate one squadron of it.

The Mig-29 is a safer bet, we have the infra, technical knowhow, spares and trained men to fly them. That matters a lot.

 

[Sanglamorre]

Why did India buy Mig-29?

Because India has many pilots qualified on Mig-29. This is the simple answer.

Remember pilot is a scarce resource in wartime, as important as the aircraft itself.

India missed the opportunity to buy F-16 then F-21. These should have been bought long time back.

Even we buy F-16 now, it will take time to train pilots. So it is a lost opportunity.

A squad or two of F-35 with pilot training in the USA? Makes sense.

We do train some pilots in the F16 though.


But frankly, I do not see the point in panic buying MiG-29. GoI seems determined at all costs to deescalate, even at the risk of heavy political fallout and sizeable puncture of the strongman image of Modi. So, with that in mind, the warplanes we have are already not going to be used for their purpose. Instead of buying more, we can just invest the money in economy instead.

I'm completely serious, not trolling. Our current model seems to work on strengthening economic ties and using it as leverage whether it's China or Turkey. In that effect, we should bolster our economy and generate wealth, not buy billions of dollars worth of equipment that won't be used to their purpose.

Even if we do, we must not get these hyper expensive emergency deals. These jets aren't coming quick either, nor will they be needed. So why make such expensive deals?

 

[Mikesingh]

PLAN offensive in Hind Mahasagar from Djibouti Is it sustainable for them? If malacca strait is choked supplies to Djibouti would be affected adversely.

Right! That's why they are getting jittery about India interfering in the CPEC, the proposed alternative route to the Arabian Sea. And that's why they need Galwan and Depsang to try and cut off DBO and link up with Pak at GB via the Karakoram Pass. DBO/Karakoram Pass is their achilles heel from where they fear India can cut off the CPEC. It's a well thought out strategy but has come a cropper.

 

[LDev]

Right! That's why they are getting jittery about India interfering in the CPEC, the proposed alternative route to the Arabian Sea. And that's why they need Galwan and Depsang to try and cut off DBO and link up with Pak at GB via the Karakoram Pass. DBO/Karakoram Pass is their achilles heel from where they fear India can cut off the CPEC. It's a well thought out strategy but has come a cropper.

And that strategy will completely collapse if India get's it's act together and overruns and captures GB. That will put a permanent end to the Chinese dream.

 

[muralidon924]

For Dhanush Chanters,OFB Bubus and Indegenious soul Cry Babies

Delays hits production of Dhanush guns Published July 2, 2020

View attachment 51834
​

Covid outbreak has hit the supply of Dhanush 155x45mm artillery guns, the Indian version of Bofors, to the army. The weapon systems are being made at the Gun Carriage Factory (GCF), Jabalpur, in MP. The first batch of six guns was issued from the GCF in April 2019. This year the factory was supposed to supply another six to eight guns. However, no dispatch could happen as the Covid lockdown hampered operations at the factory.

It is learnt four guns are ready for issue after trials, but could not be delivered to the army due to logistics hurdles. Another batch has been built, but the trials could not happen on account of lockdown. The total supply of the Dhanush guns would still be short of equipping one full artillery regiment this year. Sources said after building the entire gun, each piece has to be proven fit for use after trials. The ranges are in other states and access to the area was not possible due to the lockdown. The ranges are located in two different corners of the country, they said.

After the factory reopened in June, the production process remains slow as workers have to follow Covid prevention standard operating procedure (SOP), a source said.

This coupled with procedural hurdles is expected to delay completion of entire project by one year. After the project was initiated in 2010 , Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) got a bulk production clearance to make the guns in 2019. The army has placed an indent for 114 Dhanush guns. The order is supposed to be completed in four years but it may now take five, said sources.

It is expected the current year’s batch may be delivered in a couple of months with delivery of the guns that have already been proven to happen before that. GCF will have to scale up its production to 50 guns a year from 2021 to meet targets. At present, the factory is operating at its optimum capacity. Much of the new machines have been procured and the process continues.

Though based on Swedish Bofors, Dhanush is an advanced weapon system with higher range and accuracy. It took a series of trials for the army to finally place an order for 114. The guns have fired 5,000 rounds during trials to get the final clearance. This was a record on its own.

The ordnance factories are also upgunning the existing 130 mm guns with the army to 155mm. This will help increasing their range. Named Sharang, the factory is supposed to deliver 300 guns. This project is also expected to be delayed by a year, said sources.

You go to Ladakh and Fight the battle. We will follow you after five years.

http://idrw.org/delays-hits-production-of-dhanush-

http://guns/

gov't says atmanirbhar but doesn't give a chance to companies like kalyani group to prove themselves

 

[Tridev123]

To better meet the Chinese challenge head on and put the fear of God in the PLA we need one more Mountain Strike Corps to add to the one that we are raising. This Mountain Strike Corps should have the latest equipment like M777 howitzers, Kalyani ULH howitzers, Kalyani truck mounted 105 mm artillery guns (very useful in mountain terrain, can be rapidly moved around), Apache and LCH helicopters, Prahaar and Pralay battle field ballistic missiles, Smerch MBRL, Pinaka mk1, mk2 and 300mm, 120km range mk3 systems, Harop suicide drones and other combat drones, long range reconnaissance drones, battle field short range drones, latest shoulder fired Vshorads, Nag and Spike - Er anti tank guided missiles, latest night vision equipment for fighting at night, t90 tanks if possible and an imported light tank suitable for mountains, The ATAGS howitzers can be air lifted by C17 Globe master planes and deployed wherever possible. Excalibur ammunition to increase effectiveness and an indigenous equivalent if it can be developed. Standard infantry rifle the Sig716 plus Ak-203, Negev 7.62 Lmg plus DRDO-OFB belt fed 7.62 Lmg, good bullet proof jackets, Sniper rifles etc.
Backed up by the Air Force the two Mountain Strike Corps will make the PLA piss in their pants and run to their grandmother crying.
Once we pose a very credible threat to their interests they will begin seeking peace.

 

[utubekhiladi]

For Dhanush Chanters,OFB Bubus and Indegenious soul Cry Babies

Delays hits production of Dhanush guns Published July 2, 2020

View attachment 51834
​

Covid outbreak has hit the supply of Dhanush 155x45mm artillery guns, the Indian version of Bofors, to the army. The weapon systems are being made at the Gun Carriage Factory (GCF), Jabalpur, in MP. The first batch of six guns was issued from the GCF in April 2019. This year the factory was supposed to supply another six to eight guns. However, no dispatch could happen as the Covid lockdown hampered operations at the factory.

It is learnt four guns are ready for issue after trials, but could not be delivered to the army due to logistics hurdles. Another batch has been built, but the trials could not happen on account of lockdown. The total supply of the Dhanush guns would still be short of equipping one full artillery regiment this year. Sources said after building the entire gun, each piece has to be proven fit for use after trials. The ranges are in other states and access to the area was not possible due to the lockdown. The ranges are located in two different corners of the country, they said.

After the factory reopened in June, the production process remains slow as workers have to follow Covid prevention standard operating procedure (SOP), a source said.

This coupled with procedural hurdles is expected to delay completion of entire project by one year. After the project was initiated in 2010 , Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) got a bulk production clearance to make the guns in 2019. The army has placed an indent for 114 Dhanush guns. The order is supposed to be completed in four years but it may now take five, said sources.

It is expected the current year’s batch may be delivered in a couple of months with delivery of the guns that have already been proven to happen before that. GCF will have to scale up its production to 50 guns a year from 2021 to meet targets. At present, the factory is operating at its optimum capacity. Much of the new machines have been procured and the process continues.

Though based on Swedish Bofors, Dhanush is an advanced weapon system with higher range and accuracy. It took a series of trials for the army to finally place an order for 114. The guns have fired 5,000 rounds during trials to get the final clearance. This was a record on its own.

The ordnance factories are also upgunning the existing 130 mm guns with the army to 155mm. This will help increasing their range. Named Sharang, the factory is supposed to deliver 300 guns. This project is also expected to be delayed by a year, said sources.

You go to Ladakh and Fight the battle. We will follow you after five years.

http://idrw.org/delays-hits-production-of-dhanush-

http://guns/

i have been ranting about this since day-1...

we lack good management, responsibility and accountability. not to mention the corruption too.. they are saying like the guns would have delivered before time if there was no covid. bullshit.
companies that falls under ministry of defense is causing delays and price escalations.. -- doesn't make sense

 

[tarunraju]

Hearing a spectacular rumor about government introducing an ordinance that makes illegal ore exports punishable by death. It will be enacted in the next Parl session.

 

[utubekhiladi]

Hearing a spectacular rumor about government introducing an ordinance that makes illegal ore exports punishable by death. It will be enacted in the next Parl session.

too late by that time, half of our ores will be already exported by then.. there will be no ore left by the time it becomes the law.. expect the corrupt babus who have vested and evil interest in such companies to delay the bill till all ores are plundered .

 

[A chauhan]

China has land borders with 14 countries.
China has territorial disputes with 21 countries.

 

[Sanatani]

gov't says atmanirbhar but doesn't give a chance to companies like kalyani group to prove themselves

You didn't read the full article.
""The guns fired 5000 rounds during trials to get clearance which is a record in itself". Do you think only the government gets the blame but officers in Armed forces are clean.

 

[garg_bharat]

Not necessarily, it depends on the app. For example, something like a cam scanner can be relatively easily replicated by anyone. But something like TattiTok requires a massive backend, then the availability and the geo positioning of the backend, the management and security of the backend then its level of coupling with the frontend app. Not saying that it is technically a problem, but it is an expensive affair... a very expensive affair.

I am sure there is a business case. Remember tiktok made 200M from India last year.

 

[muralidon924]

You didn't read the full article.
""The guns fired 5000 rounds during trials to get clearance which is a record in itself". Do you think only the government gets the blame but officers in Armed forces are clean.

Both are different gun systems, i was talking about only the gov't sector participation in manufacturing of artillery guns. Involvement of private sector will boost delivery times

 

[Sanatani]

Both are different gun systems, i was talking about only the gov't sector participation in manufacturing of artillery guns. Involvement of private sector will boost delivery times

I agree. Private players should be encouraged . I was just pointing towards the rot in our system

 

[Kumata]

India missed the opportunity to buy F-16 then F-21. These should have been bought long time back.

Even we buy F-16 now, it will take time to train pilots. So it is a lost opportunity.

A squad or two of F-35 with pilot training in the USA? Makes sense.

We don't any one more platform... we have enough .. moreover i won;t trust americans with critical equipment like Jet....Last thing u want is that we are on war with porkis / china and babus are flying to US to get a agreement from uncle SAM to use F 16 in war with both ...Offcourse uncle SAM would need few billions to approve the use...

NO.. we have mature proven platforms like Su and rafael...