India China LAC & International Border Discussions

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ARVION

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Remember only that 18 F 16's are of 52 standards and rest even the jordanian are of either of 32 or 40 standards so most of their f 16's dont have the advanced EW site's like ours 2000's so if s 400 was deployed near the border then f 16 would not intercepter our aircrafts but if they try to lock on our aircrafts then their Aircraft would be also in the range of the s 400 and not only a 400 but also MRSAM's so the situation has greatly changed since the Balako's and now we have also the astra and R 77M missile's in service's
so imagine a 27 Feb scenario.... how would S400 deny them the tactics they employed in that operation? that's what I want to know
 

garg_bharat

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well I also know that IAF bought S400 due to diminishing squadron strength so I expect it to be used in an offensive role as well.
"offensive"! How?

An S400 system in Leh is highly unlikely. China has options as it sits on a plateau.

But effectiveness of the system in mountains remains to be seen. Any active radars of the system will come under attack from anti-radiation missiles.
 

Kumata

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Impact of the Indian S-400 on Pakistan

Even if one was to agree with the Swedish Research Agencies report, the ability of the S-400 to engage hostile airborne platforms at a distance of up to 200 Kms makes it a formidable weapon system while its ability to engage adversary’s aircraft well inside their territory gives it a potent offensive option. The impact of the Indian S-400 on Pakistan may be viewed on three distinct stages: during peace, post incursion similar to the Balakot raid and when war is declared. Even during peace, Pakistan will have to deal with the fallout of the Indian S-400 induction. When operationally deployed to defend along with the French Rafale and the support elements of AEWCs, aerial refuellers and spoofers, aerial raids by the PAF on Indian targets by manned aircraft would become very challenging and costly. Post Uri and Pulwama lessons indicate whenever the Indian government, particularly under Modi, came under domestic pressure due to poor governance, bashing Pakistan and feigning or conducting limited military aggression had domestically paid rich dividends in the past, despite the loss of face and prestige at the international level. The Indian civilian and military leadership might conclude the S-400 battalions would now make it almost impossible for the PAF to respond to an Indian aerial assault in the manner it had accomplished post-Balakot raid. It would embolden them further to conduct another military assault on Pakistan on a limited scale, following a real or false flag attack in India. Pakistan will have to be ready to counter and respond to this looming threat. In the nuclear environment prevalent between India and Pakistan, notwithstanding the protective shield, the S-400 could provide to India against any PAF strike in response to any Indian aggression, the Indian military planners would have to keep the nuclear deterrence theory in mind. Pakistan has successfully established the full-spectrum credible nuclear deterrence capability and can inflict unacceptable damage to India if it threatens the country’s core interest in any form. Top of FormIf Pakistan is unable to contain and repel Indian aggression through conventional means because of the S-400 defensive umbrella, the likelihood of the employment of nuclear weapons will rise exponentially. Experts agree a modified version of Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) doctrine exists between India and Pakistan. Deterrence, particularly nuclear deterrence, is based on the rationality of one’s opponent, and the credibility of the threat being made.[xi] According to the theory rationality of the irrational, for some, irrational acts are considered rational. The Indian BJP government under Prime Minister Modi has displayed glimpses of this behaviour by the brazen aerial assault on Balakot on February 26 2019. But for the restraint shown by Pakistan’s reprisal raid, and the world pressure on India to back off, the situation could have easily spiralled to a level where a nuclear war would have become a distinct possibility. Will the Indian leadership keep the danger of the conflict escalating where a nuclear exchange that would spell doom for both becomes the only option for Pakistan to respond to the Indian aggression, is the million-dollar question. Should India venture to conduct another aerial attack similar to the Balakot raid and unlike Balakot, manages to cause serious casualties, the PAF’s ability to respond initially following its quid pro quo policy would have to cater for the Indian defensive shield provided by the S-400 and Rafale combine. Answers to overcome the challenge and respond in kind without resorting to the nuclear options have to be found. In the event of an all-out war between India and Pakistan, the S-400 system would limit the freedom of action of the PAF’s employment of it aerial platforms, particularly the enablers like the AEWC, spoofers, refuellers and transport fleet. Their employment would have to be judiciously planned to keep them out of the S-400 lethal ranges and yet be able to perform their operational tasks. An all-out war between nuclear-armed India and Pakistan is not likely but cannot be ruled out. In such a scenario, the Indian S-400 system, besides providing a strong defensive shield to the majority of the Indian Vulnerable Areas (VAs) and Vulnerable Points (VPs), can also shoot down PAF combat planes and support platforms well inside Pakistan. The freedom of operation for the PAF even inside its territory would be limited during the conflict. In addition, the S-400 employed judiciously along with the Indian AWAC platforms can target the PAF interceptors deployed to counter the IAF raids on its VAs and VPs. The PAF would have to come up with options to neutralise the threat to its air defence fighters. For the Pakistan Army and the Pakistan Navy, the situation would assume dire proportions if the S-400 system helps the IAF establish a high degree of control of the air on the battlefields, and over the sea. While the S-400 might theoretically have the capability of targeting PAF aircraft flying in support of the Army over the battle zone, in reality, it would be far more complicated. All beyond visual range engagement weapons have to be able to differentiate between friend and foe and in the melee where both the PAF and the IAF aircraft would be operating, avoiding fratricide is a major challenge. Electronic means of identifying friendly platforms is far from perfect, and even the mighty USAF equipped with the latest electronic sensors and devices have stringent rules of engagement over airspaces, where friendly and hostile aircraft are present. Avoidance of fratricide would limit the free use of the S-400 long-range targeting capability over the battlefields.

- See more at: http://southasiajournal.net/impact-of-s-400-air-defence-sam-induction-in-india-on-the-paf/
 

Longewala

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NO comments but just to backup with evidence and news at the time of settlement.

quint- less said than better. i don;t want to waste my time


That quoted article is absolutely shocking, made my blood boil just reading that. It is indeed betrayal, almost downright treachery what they did with the pensions of those who were prepared to die for the nation.

I know we get off topic sometimes but we get to learn stuff we wouldn't see otherwise....my opinion on Indira Gandhi went down drastically, seems like everything she did post 1971 was detrimental to the nation.
 
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Arihant

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Defence guy, has sources inside.

He doesn't seem wrong though. Media reports already filtering in of disengagement and doesn't mention going back to position before April or that India is going to be able to patrol F4 like before.
I too have sources but not for a single time they told me or family anything, even their posting leave alone any info. Thinking that he knows everything from his sources, I am never going to believe that.
 

Sanglamorre

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I too have sources but not for a single time they told me or family anything, even their posting leave alone any info. Thinking that he knows everything from his sources, I am never going to believe that.
Of course. The proof is in the pudding. Scour news reports for next few days about deescalation. If they continue to say nothing about whether Chinese moved back from F4 or if we regained access, and instead put inordinate stress on Galwan etc, you'll know if he was right.
 

ARVION

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I am laughing now the chinis all over their Chinese's forum's are crying and blushing that S 400 is useless and over hyped and over priced what were they thinking the S 400 is some kind of super weapon's it's defensive weapon with limited offensive capabilitie's, now their train to tibet is derailed, they are even blasting that return the system and get refund as they are are going to get I think Russia could have deliberately sold sub par S 400's to chinis at inflated price's just my guess

CarelessDeadlyHornet-size_restricted (1).gif
 

Arihant

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Of course. The proof is in the pudding. Scour news reports for next few days about deescalation. If they continue to say nothing about whether Chinese moved back from F4 or if we regained access, and instead put inordinate stress on Galwan etc, you'll know if he was right.
Ok. Let's see after some time what will be the outcome of this face off. :)
 

garg_bharat

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S400 is a complex system which combines several radars and launchers through data links. India has local systems which are networked too. It has missiles with long ranges but that is no different from shooting BVR missiles. Any aircraft taking off on a Pakistani airbase can be shot down from Indian airspace by a BVR missile.

I have a feeling Chinese want to do a dry run (or a test) of their latest toys in a border war against India. The objective seems to be to hone their skills (and improve their toys) when big war breaks out. They are preparing for war against USA.

A crisis in South China sea or sea of Japan is long overdue.
 
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ARVION

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48845683227_ccafdc84ce_k.jpg


Does any one knows what kind of micro Helicopter's are this ?
 

Sanatani

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I don't think so. The Nepali military supports India that's why Oli has ordered his corrupt policemen to act against India. Last month the shoot out where one citizen died was done by these policemen. :dude:
I am just thinking that the policeman who shot Indians must now be shitting in his pants. Oli is definitely going , use baad uski toh lagni hai
 

ARVION

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I am just thinking that the policeman who shot Indians must now be shitting in his pants. Oli is definitely going , use baad uski toh lagni hai
He would be suspended and I am remebring that dialouge's from the Holiday
 

IndiaRising

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"offensive"! How?

An S400 system in Leh is highly unlikely. China has options as it sits on a plateau.

But effectiveness of the system in mountains remains to be seen. Any active radars of the system will come under attack from anti-radiation missiles.
S400 somewhere in Northern Punjab would make sense to me
 
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