India-China Border conflict

mokoman

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Means already intruded by PLA and holded also ?
they come in at a few places , paint 'CHINA' on rocks , stay for few days then leave.
if locals find them they alert ITBP , who come and ask them to leave.

at the other locations they come in force , build shit , destroy our shit then leave.

my understanding is , they havent held on to anything , holding is lot difficult .

At a few places we dont have *any* roads inside our territory to these remote LAC places , i hope we atleast start building now.
 

Knowitall

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Updated per the above, only Pt 4190 is missing.
View attachment 116805
I'm actually surprised by the fact that they have not made some move here yet. In eastern Arunachal Pradesh any sizeable force can roll into our territory without much resistance and then fortify their positions along their gains during the winter.
 

Viper316

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Is Chumbi valley the Galwan of the east? Can we stay defensive at Silguri corridor
 

The Shrike

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I'm actually surprised by the fact that they have not made some move here yet. In eastern Arunachal Pradesh any sizeable force can roll into our territory without much resistance and then fortify their positions along their gains during the winter.
That's what I'm betting on too. Sikkim, Tawang are too well defended but they will keep making transgressions so we keep large number of troops there. And then will cross over in large numbers in eastern AP in and occupy areas where there is a huge gap in our logistics capabilities. And then we'll have the option of starting a hot war to evict them or wave the white flag.
 

Foxbat

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Copying my post from a few years ago:

No one who really knows about development of military aircraft takes Project Azm seriously. A nation which never developed its own moped or motorcycle will suddenly develop a 5th generation stealth fighter? That too a nation which is bankrupt and keeps begging the IMF and other nations for bailouts to prevent its economy from collapsing !
 

hit&run

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The current standoff has been a boon for the PLA. So many of their shortcomings both in equipment and training which were previously not brought into the limelight due to the overall nature of LAC are now on the forefront being addressed rapidly.

Despite having good infrastructure new highways and roads have been built along the LAC in greater numbers to increase retention and survivability across the border.

The inability to match IAF in deployment and sortie levels is now being addressed with rapid construction of new airfields across the border and moving in more squadrons and rotating them on a regular basis.

The restructuring of armored and mechanized divisions to infantry centric divisions backed by artillery and light tanks keeping in leu the terrain and infrastructure seems to have helped them manage their deployment time in a much better and faster way.

Constant rotation of troops while pushing in more and more men into depth areas to acclimatize them and prepare them towards mountain warfare with increasing number of exercises seems to be the new norm.

Overall i feel that there was a very real possibility of PLA facing major setbacks due to being caught off guard had a major skirmish or war taken place last year. A lot of these issues have now been dealt with completely or to a great extent.

This is also true for India with the current infrastructure boom taking place along our borders and the induction of new technologies albeit only in small numbers.

We always had a edge in mountain warfare so that was never really an issue for us but for PLA it has helped them do some catching up.
Similar comment can be made by simply replacing the word China with India. I hope you will add source of above opinion.
 

Cheran

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Huh


China faces diesel crisis after it used diesel generators due to power crisis caused by coal shortage

Due to the huge diesel crisis, China has put a limit on how much fuel trucks can purchase, and charges extra for filling more than the cap

1635668711936.png
 

hit&run

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Huh


China faces diesel crisis after it used diesel generators due to power crisis caused by coal shortage

Due to the huge diesel crisis, China has put a limit on how much fuel trucks can purchase, and charges extra for filling more than the cap

View attachment 116827
All negative news from China must be treated carefully. These psychotic intro wards retards will first spread negative news of their hardships and then blame outsiders for opurtunistic attacks.

These mongrels used 1960s feminine as a victim card against India. On the contrary followed by self imposed diplomatic deadlock they started to build up supplies and started aclamatizing their soilders from 1959 onwards.
 

Knowitall

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Similar comment can be made by simply replacing the word China with India. I hope you will add source of above opinion.
I don't think so.

The reasons are IAF already has a edge in air dominance and sortie rates due to the nature of the terrain and widespread ALH's scattered around our eastern front.

Our land forces were already infantry cum artillery oriented due to our experience in Siachen kargil and other mountainous sectors. PLA on the other hand relies heavily on the soviet doctrine of overwhelming firepower which is neither accurate nor much damaging in mountainous terrain something they are not much familiar with.

Similarly India already rotates it's troops regularly and deploys them at some of the highest points in the world. We know the in and outs of mountain warfare and have the requisite training structures in place.

There is simply no comparison here due to the fact that our army has been dealing with mountain training and warfare for a few good decades now and has honed those skills constantly. We also have fresh recruits from nearby villages and areas who are acclimatized with the regional weather. Wile PLA has made some advancements in surveillance and light tanks they still had a lot of catching up to do.

The major change from our side is the massive infrastructure build up which i already addressed in my previous comment.

Some Sources talking about the new changes and improvements brought in by them.


 

mist_consecutive

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The current standoff has been a boon for the PLA. So many of their shortcomings both in equipment and training which were previously not brought into the limelight due to the overall nature of LAC are now on the forefront being addressed rapidly.

Despite having good infrastructure new highways and roads have been built along the LAC in greater numbers to increase retention and survivability across the border.

The inability to match IAF in deployment and sortie levels is now being addressed with rapid construction of new airfields across the border and moving in more squadrons and rotating them on a regular basis.

The restructuring of armored and mechanized divisions to infantry centric divisions backed by artillery and light tanks keeping in leu the terrain and infrastructure seems to have helped them manage their deployment time in a much better and faster way.

Constant rotation of troops while pushing in more and more men into depth areas to acclimatize them and prepare them towards mountain warfare with increasing number of exercises seems to be the new norm.

Overall i feel that there was a very real possibility of PLA facing major setbacks due to being caught off guard had a major skirmish or war taken place last year. A lot of these issues have now been dealt with completely or to a great extent.

This is also true for India with the current infrastructure boom taking place along our borders and the induction of new technologies albeit only in small numbers.

We always had a edge in mountain warfare so that was never really an issue for us but for PLA it has helped them do some catching up.
Agree with most points, however, it also showed our weaknesses and shortcomings, made us wake up from slumber and sniff the coffee. But yes, overall, benefits for the Chinese side are much greater due to their inexperience, hence their learning curve is sharper.

I'm actually surprised by the fact that they have not made some move here yet. In eastern Arunachal Pradesh any sizeable force can roll into our territory without much resistance and then fortify their positions along their gains during the winter.
They can (probably are already doing), but holding rainforest jungle mountaineous areas are most difficult. Once they set off foot from their paved roads, it transitions to guerrila warfare. No technology works properly, either drone, armour, radar, thermal cameras, nothing. Only foot-soldiers can take and hold control.

So unlike Ladakh they cannot just roll in armour and set up camps, and block our patrols. There are thousands of alternate routes and ambush strategies.


Is Chumbi valley the Galwan of the east? Can we stay defensive at Silguri corridor
Chumbi Valley is a liability of the Chinese which will be the first piece of land China will lose if they try some serious offensive in NE.
 

Mantospace

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We hv a long boundry wth china cant possible to save every point. Govt will try to capture one area in case of war.
 

mist_consecutive

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In the last two weeks, around 40% of troops and equipment have been moved from frontline bases in Ladakh.

Probably due to cold, as snow is settling in, troops are moved to inner, warner areas. Also possible that 1 Corps is returning to the plains after the training mission.
 

Jimih

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Updates from ALP (Arunachal Pradesh)

(1) There has been an increase in Chinese patrols in the RALP, especially in Asaphila area, along with massive development of infrastructure. In addition to roads, there is construction of tunnels, habitat and related facilities to support the troops. For instance, construction of tunnels has been reported opposite Subansiri area in recent months.

(2) In terms of troops, till 2010, the Indian Army had only one Division tasked for looking after RALP. With increased Chinese presence, the Army has since moved additional troops to strengthen its position.

(3) Indian Army has significantly augmented its firepower in the Tawang sector as well strengthened its surveillance capabilities to keep an eye on Chinese activities across the LAC.

(4) In a broader national effort, work is also underway on the 1600 km long Trans-Arunachal highway with alignment running along the LAC up to the Mynamar border. The highway, which had been delayed, is now gathering pace.


(*RALP- Rest of Arunachal Pradesh)
 

Knowitall

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Agree with most points, however, it also showed our weaknesses and shortcomings, made us wake up from slumber and sniff the coffee. But yes, overall, benefits for the Chinese side are much greater due to their inexperience, hence their learning curve is sharper.



They can (probably are already doing), but holding rainforest jungle mountaineous areas are most difficult. Once they set off foot from their paved roads, it transitions to guerrila warfare. No technology works properly, either drone, armour, radar, thermal cameras, nothing. Only foot-soldiers can take and hold control.

So unlike Ladakh they cannot just roll in armour and set up camps, and block our patrols. There are thousands of alternate routes and ambush strategies.




Chumbi Valley is a liability of the Chinese which will be the first piece of land China will lose if they try some serious offensive in NE.
True in fact in some domains the chinese did have an outright edge over us despite their lack of experience in the overall theatre.

Their deployment speed and the ability to move the bulk of their tail end units in matter of days is truly remarkable. They had a well established solid logistics chain which showed it's resilience with the constant induction and de-induction of troops at a fast pace.

Better gear and equipment (Ex: Riot shields and vests) along with good a surveillance network. If i am not mistaken i remember reading about chinese camps in despang being as far as 7 km away while Indian camps were around 3 km away but they were still able to intercept our patrols due to better inputs.

They also have a better strategy in place and a set of objectives towards which they have been working throughout the years with varying degrees of success. The cohesion between civilians and the PLA is also excellent which enables them to properly leverage the grey zones and our diplomatic corps.

In some domains they have a huge lead. Their arms manufacturing capabilities dwarf anything we have in comparison they can churn out more of anything which is extremely important in a high intensity war. They have a solid supply or spares due to inhouse construction and design while ours is very unreliable.

At the end of the day it really comes down to how well each side can exploit it's advantage. If china can properly leverage it's deployment speed along with a better intel network and the aggressors advantage they could try and knock out the IAF which is the weakest branch due to the lack of numbers and the inability to withstand attrition out of the fight in a matter of hours or days. In such a scenario it will become extremely difficult for the army to hold on to major sectors or mount offenses in any meaningful way.

If India on the other hand can manage to repeal such a surprise attack through scattering and high temp sorties we can very well contest for air domination and give the army sufficient rooms for long drawn battles which could then result in China finally giving up due to increasing diplomatic pressure isolation if they are unable to score major victories which would be a massive blow to their superpower dreams while our prestige would grow manifolds for stopping a superpower in progress.

It could turn upside down again if India is unable to garner enough diplomatic support which would then lead to a a battle of attrition where India is severely disadvantaged and this is something that we must avoid at all costs due to the weakness of our manufacturing Industries.
 

doreamon

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True in fact in some domains the chinese did have an outright edge over us despite their lack of experience in the overall theatre.

Their deployment speed and the ability to move the bulk of their tail end units in matter of days is truly remarkable. They had a well established solid logistics chain which showed it's resilience with the constant induction and de-induction of troops at a fast pace.

Better gear and equipment (Ex: Riot shields and vests) along with good a surveillance network. If i am not mistaken i remember reading about chinese camps in despang being as far as 7 km away while Indian camps were around 3 km away but they were still able to intercept our patrols due to better inputs.

They also have a better strategy in place and a set of objectives towards which they have been working throughout the years with varying degrees of success. The cohesion between civilians and the PLA is also excellent which enables them to properly leverage the grey zones and our diplomatic corps.

In some domains they have a huge lead. Their arms manufacturing capabilities dwarf anything we have in comparison they can churn out more of anything which is extremely important in a high intensity war. They have a solid supply or spares due to inhouse construction and design while ours is very unreliable.

At the end of the day it really comes down to how well each side can exploit it's advantage. If china can properly leverage it's deployment speed along with a better intel network and the aggressors advantage they could try and knock out the IAF which is the weakest branch due to the lack of numbers and the inability to withstand attrition out of the fight in a matter of hours or days. In such a scenario it will become extremely difficult for the army to hold on to major sectors or mount offenses in any meaningful way.

If India on the other hand can manage to repeal such a surprise attack through scattering and high temp sorties we can very well contest for air domination and give the army sufficient rooms for long drawn battles which could then result in China finally giving up due to increasing diplomatic pressure isolation if they are unable to score major victories which would be a massive blow to their superpower dreams while our prestige would grow manifolds for stopping a superpower in progress.

It could turn upside down again if India is unable to garner enough diplomatic support which would then lead to a a battle of attrition where India is severely disadvantaged and this is something that we must avoid at all costs due to the weakness of our manufacturing Industries.
Such generalistic statements must be avoided . Like " ours is unreliable " , "IAF inability to withstand hours / days " .. unless u are a ex service man / woman and have expertise in the domain by direct experience without being prejudiced by reports or dalals in internet . Passing on wrong perception is detrimental to national security . Comment shd be mostly objective and informative when there is lack of direct experience in the domain .
 

Knowitall

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Such generalistic statements must be avoided . Like " ours is unreliable " , "IAF inability to withstand hours / days " .. unless u are a ex service man / woman and have expertise in the domain by direct experience without being prejudiced by reports or dalals in internet .
Nothing generalistic in my statements.

Ours is unreliable because of how dependent it is on Russia. To give you an example India has been ordering old mirages and jaguars to cannibalize their parts as the production of spare parts for these aircrafts has stopped long back.

Russia has a not so good record with after services and we have no idea just how would they behave in a conflict with china.

IAF barring tejas does no have the inhouse capability to replace lost jets in combat sorties which means every loss will lead to a reduction in capabilities.

Nothing generalistic about it is just how it is.
 

doreamon

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Nothing generalistic in my statements.

Ours is unreliable because of how dependent it is on Russia. To give you an example India has been ordering old mirages and jaguars to cannibalize their parts as the production of spare parts for these aircrafts has stopped long back.

Russia has a not so good record with after services and we have no idea just how would they behave in a conflict with china.

IAF barring tejas does no have the inhouse capability to replace lost jets in combat sorties which means every loss will lead to a reduction in capabilities.

Nothing generalistic about it is just how it is.
Do u really believe while war ll be going on china ll be manufacturing fighter jet to replace its lost jets ?? Is that how fighter jets are made ... Pushing the button in factory and a new fighter jet flying to LAC in next 48 hrs ? Alu dalo sona niklega scheme ..
Why do u think IAF has nt arrenged enough spare parts for its fighter jets for a war ... Are they dumb ? In operation gagan shakti they did 11k shorties in 13 day .. Do u think without rapid service and spare parts availability it was possible ?
 

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