India-China Border conflict

[ezsasa]

As far as China's concerned , Modi administration's response reminds me of a dialogue from the OG Agnipath starring AB - kya kancha , bandook bhi dikhata hain aur peeche bhi jaata hain .

This administration's genuinely intimidated by China's power & given a choice would rather be elsewhere which is not the right way of tackling the problem. There's a war looming . No 2 opinions about it . We ought to be grateful the Chinese in their hubris forewarned us .

Instead of preparing like there's no tomorrow , our security managers & political bosses still think there's wriggle room & are preparing for the best case scenario . The taciturn response in terms of media management of the Galwan tragedy is a case in point . The point being not to unnecessarily provoke the Chinese irrespective of the measures they adopt to manage the media & information / disinformation disseminated thru the latter.

Both the Galwan issue as well as the Balakote strikes signify extremely poor media management. All this when there was a BJP / NDA Government in place during the Kargil war . Compare the media management then to what it is now in such emergencies.

other way of looking at it could be that it's the chini who got worried and blinked.

- BRO managament overhaul happens in 2015
- forward access roads start getting built
- tenders of tunnels start getting issued.
- chardham all weather access road starts getting built.
- the number of confrontations and flag drills increase after 2014/15, because troops are able to reach forward points faster than before. there will be a lok sabha reply on this by kiran rijuju.
- 2017 doklam was an attempt to check GoI response, GoI deploys almost 30000 troops
- forward airstrips start getting re-activated in forward areas
- 2020 clashes happen, GoI deploys troops and logistics for long haul
- Jun 2020, DBO gets re-activated, with access roads.
- aug 2023, nyoma airstrip was the last one that got upgraded.

the fact that work to fill decades of infra backlog started in 2015, would mean GoI was preparing for this.
as far as being tactical first mover tactics are concerned, GoI never did it with traditional adversary pakiland unlikely they would have done it with a new adversary chin.

others point about bad PR are all valid.

 

[Azaad]

other way of looking at it could be that it's the chini who got worried and blinked.

- BRO managament overhaul happens in 2015
- forward access roads start getting built
- tenders of tunnels start getting issued.
- chardham all weather access road starts getting built.
- the number of confrontations and flag drills increase after 2014/15, because troops are able to reach forward points faster than before. there will be a lok sabha reply on this by kiran rijuju.
- 2017 doklam was an attempt to check GoI response, GoI deploys almost 30000 troops
- forward airstrips start getting re-activated in forward areas
- 2020 clashes happen, GoI deploys troops and logistics for long haul
- Jun 2020, DBO gets re-activated, with access roads.
- aug 2023, nyoma airstrip was the last one that got upgraded.

the fact that work to fill decades of infra backlog started in 2015, would mean GoI was preparing for this.
as far as being tactical first mover tactics are concerned, GoI never did it with traditional adversary pakiland unlikely they would have done it with a new adversary chin.

others point about bad PR are all valid.

Building up Infrastructure is but one step in the way ahead. Not denying the work undertaken or its salience but look at the state of CAPEX as far as the IA goes & especially the IAF or the items on the procurement list in the near term. Testing & procurement of artillery is tardy at best .

The Rocket Force needed to be activated as of yesterday yet it still remains work in progress . We need rockets - guided & unguided upto a range of 300 kms in huge qtys.

Rohit Vats in a recent tweet pointed out that the order recently released for existing rockets in our inventory totalled some 6000 nos which distributed across some 22 such regiments - existing & under the process of being raised was good enough for 2-3 salvo firings only.

In addition to these we require conventional warhead tipped IRBMs with ranges between 2-3000 kms in their thousands . Compare both these items & their quantities in the PLARF to what we have & have planned in our inventory to get a true picture of where we stand.

Incidentally these are low hanging fruits. We've either developed these munitions or we can do so quickly. All we need to do is up the rate of production substantially as well as make provisions for war time production.

Then there's the issue of the induction of Agniveers for a tenure of only 4 years whereas warfare especially mountain warfare calls for a longer tenure with the result that by 2030 when the conflict is expected all the older recruits under the previous induction programme would've gone & it'd be Agniveers manning the show all across the LAC. I won't bring up theatre commands here as that's another topic meriting a full post on it separately.

I'd also rather not bring up the state of affairs with respect to the IAF for that's an even more depressing story . At least the situation as far as the IA goes can be mitigated. We've missed the bus on it as far as the IAF goes though there's still time to limit the damage provided we move fast of which there's no indication.

 

[ezsasa]

Building up Infrastructure is but one step in the way ahead. Not denying the work undertaken or its salience but look at the state of CAPEX as far as the IA goes & especially the IAF or the items on the procurement list in the near term. Testing & procurement of artillery is tardy at best .

The Rocket Force needed to be activated as of yesterday yet it still remains work in progress . We need rockets - guided & unguided upto a range of 300 kms in huge qtys.

Rohit Vats in a recent tweet pointed out that the order recently released for existing rockets in our inventory totalled some 6000 nos which distributed across some 22 such regiments - existing & under the process of being raised was good enough for 2-3 salvo firings only.

In addition to these we require conventional warhead tipped IRBMs with ranges between 2-3000 kms in their thousands . Compare both these items & their quantities in the PLARF to what we have & have planned in our inventory to get a true picture of where we stand.

Incidentally these are low hanging fruits. We've either developed these munitions or we can do so quickly. All we need to do is up the rate of production substantially as well as make provisions for war time production.

Then there's the issue of the induction of Agniveers for a tenure of only 4 years whereas warfare especially mountain warfare calls for a longer tenure with the result that by 2030 when the conflict is expected all the older recruits under the previous induction programme would've gone & it'd be Agniveers manning the show all across the LAC. I won't bring up theatre commands here as that's another topic meriting a full post on it separately.

I'd also rather not bring up the state of affairs with respect to the IAF for that's an even more depressing story . At least the situation as far as the IA goes can be mitigated. We've missed the bus on it as far as the IAF goes though there's still time to limit the damage provided we move fast of which there's no indication.

no disagreement on these.

 

[rockdog]

2nd runway of Lhasa international airport in operation.

 

[daya]

रेजांग-ला में मेजर शैतान सिंह का मेमोरियल ध्वस्त: कांग्रेस का आरोप- बफर जोन में था, चीन के दबाव में तोड़ा; सरकार बोली-ऐसा कुछ नहीं हुआ

कांग्रेस अध्यक्ष मल्लिकार्जुन खड़गे ने सोशल मीडिया पर एक पोस्ट शेयर की है, जिसमें उन्होंने लिखा है-1962 में रेजांगला युद्ध के महानायक मेजर शैतान सिंह के चुशूल लद्दाख में बने मेमोरियल को 2021 में ध्वस्त करने की खबर बहुत पीड़ादायक है। | Indian Army Major Shaitan Singh Memorial Demolished लद्दाख के...

www.bhaskar.com

Is is true that Major Shaitan Singh Memorial has been razed down and put into buffer zone? If true, then a BIG shame...

 

[Jimih]

रेजांग-ला में मेजर शैतान सिंह का मेमोरियल ध्वस्त: कांग्रेस का आरोप- बफर जोन में था, चीन के दबाव में तोड़ा; सरकार बोली-ऐसा कुछ नहीं हुआ

कांग्रेस अध्यक्ष मल्लिकार्जुन खड़गे ने सोशल मीडिया पर एक पोस्ट शेयर की है, जिसमें उन्होंने लिखा है-1962 में रेजांगला युद्ध के महानायक मेजर शैतान सिंह के चुशूल लद्दाख में बने मेमोरियल को 2021 में ध्वस्त करने की खबर बहुत पीड़ादायक है। | Indian Army Major Shaitan Singh Memorial Demolished लद्दाख के...

www.bhaskar.com

Is is true that Major Shaitan Singh Memorial has been razed down and put into buffer zone? If true, then a BIG shame...

India-China Border conflict

any idea what happened?

defenceforumindia.com

 

[daya]

रेजांग-ला में मेजर शैतान सिंह का मेमोरियल ध्वस्त: कांग्रेस का आरोप- बफर जोन में था, चीन के दबाव में तोड़ा; सरकार बोली-ऐसा कुछ नहीं हुआ

कांग्रेस अध्यक्ष मल्लिकार्जुन खड़गे ने सोशल मीडिया पर एक पोस्ट शेयर की है, जिसमें उन्होंने लिखा है-1962 में रेजांगला युद्ध के महानायक मेजर शैतान सिंह के चुशूल लद्दाख में बने मेमोरियल को 2021 में ध्वस्त करने की खबर बहुत पीड़ादायक है। | Indian Army Major Shaitan Singh Memorial Demolished लद्दाख के...

www.bhaskar.com

Is is true that Major Shaitan Singh Memorial has been razed down and put into buffer zone? If true, then a BIG shame...

2020 me bana ho ya 1962 ye.. jis jameen par bana tha.. jahan tak kabza tha usko buffer zone me laane ka matlab kya hua??

 

[Jimih]

Chinese are rattled now

 

[mist_consecutive]

Last Indo-China update for 2023

Yes, so we already know that China is breathing down our neck at Northern borders. We have also amplified our efforts for troop deployment & logistics to counter the same.

Some pointers & developments observed in the year 2023.

Chinese Side:

• They have been developing infrastructure & logistics capability at break-neck speed. Even USA will struggle to match their infrastructure development speed. Improvements mainly focus on creating dual-use villages/barracks very close to borders, underground & logistic storages and paved roads.
  
  
• Intensive military excercises throughout the Western sector, focusing on different aspects of mountain warfare and armoured thrusts. I guess they are ironing out their warfare strategy in high-altitute cold climates and don't want any surprisese like last time.
  
  
• Surprisingly no provocative or aggresive military actions on the border. Buffer zones are being meticulusly followed by both sides, 2nd year in the row. Something I did not expect from China.

Indian Side:

• We are continously trying to match China's infrastructure build-up pace. Notably, we have also opened up stragetically important roads & parallel axis to counter China's deployments (e.g., Saser-La pass). We are also quickly increasing our barracks & troops accomodations close to borders, creating logistical nodes, paved roads and mountain passes.
  
  
• Continous synergy between Strike corps and Airforce. We are creating/paving runaways to increase our airlift capabilities close to the border. In case of any emergency, we can move a divison+ formation within 2-3 days from the plains.
  
  
• While no provovative actions from our side, we have been maintaining very proactive & aggressive stance towards China. Surveillance using drones, ISTAR, regular CAPS and induction of armoured vehicles into the forward formation all contributing to moderniztion of formations at the Northern borders.

---------------------------------------------------------------

That being said, there is a very high chance (> 90%) that China will grab some land at the Northern borders prior to 2024 General Elections. Logic is, current govt. is very timid on discussing any Chinese aggression on the border. So instead of tackling it, GoI will try to hide or cover it up instead, which will be a win-win for China.

 

[FalconSlayers]

 

[The3Amigos]

Chinese come from hot place. Chinese cannot withstand cold.

 

[SavageKing456]

Last Indo-China update for 2023

Yes, so we already know that China is breathing down our neck at Northern borders. We have also amplified our efforts for troop deployment & logistics to counter the same.

Some pointers & developments observed in the year 2023.

Chinese Side:

• They have been developing infrastructure & logistics capability at break-neck speed. Even USA will struggle to match their infrastructure development speed. Improvements mainly focus on creating dual-use villages/barracks very close to borders, underground & logistic storages and paved roads.
  
  
• Intensive military excercises throughout the Western sector, focusing on different aspects of mountain warfare and armoured thrusts. I guess they are ironing out their warfare strategy in high-altitute cold climates and don't want any surprisese like last time.
  
  
• Surprisingly no provocative or aggresive military actions on the border. Buffer zones are being meticulusly followed by both sides, 2nd year in the row. Something I did not expect from China.

Indian Side:

• We are continously trying to match China's infrastructure build-up pace. Notably, we have also opened up stragetically important roads & parallel axis to counter China's deployments (e.g., Saser-La pass). We are also quickly increasing our barracks & troops accomodations close to borders, creating logistical nodes, paved roads and mountain passes.
  
  
• Continous synergy between Strike corps and Airforce. We are creating/paving runaways to increase our airlift capabilities close to the border. In case of any emergency, we can move a divison+ formation within 2-3 days from the plains.
  
  
• While no provovative actions from our side, we have been maintaining very proactive & aggressive stance towards China. Surveillance using drones, ISTAR, regular CAPS and induction of armoured vehicles into the forward formation all contributing to moderniztion of formations at the Northern borders.

---------------------------------------------------------------

That being said, there is a very high chance (> 90%) that China will grab some land at the Northern borders prior to 2024 General Elections. Logic is, current govt. is very timid on discussing any Chinese aggression on the border. So instead of tackling it, GoI will try to hide or cover it up instead, which will be a win-win for China.

This...
I think huge attack in arunachal is coming
And a diversion tactic will also be employed

 

[Narasimh]

not sure if already posted but this is the best movie I watched this year!

 

[Blademaster]

China is attempting to create a third front by fomenting rebellion in Myanmar. India needs to step in by shoring up the Myanmar military and putting down the rebellions.

 

[mist_consecutive]

Chinese come from hot place. Chinese cannot withstand cold.

China has a diverse climate just like India. Arguably they have much more population living in cold climate than India.

 

[The3Amigos]

China has a diverse climate just like India. Arguably they have much more population living in cold climate than India.

True. But Han people came from hot place. That's why Han people got whooped by Manchus who came from cold place.

 

[mist_consecutive]

No Chinese ships in Sri Lankan EEZ.

Good diplomatic W for India

 

[Love Charger]

Chinese have more mortars than india .
More 100 mm pp89 mortars that is .

Their assault or battle groups carry four of these .
Our 81 mm mortar is a battalion level mortar , and 120 mm ones are handled by artillery.
Our company level mortars are outdated , outclassed and outranged 51 mm mortars.
Very bad.

 

[mokoman]

Chinese have more mortars than india .
More 100 mm pp89 mortars that is .
View attachment 234734View attachment 234735View attachment 234736View attachment 234737
Their assault or battle groups carry four of these .
Our 81 mm mortar is a battalion level mortar , and 120 mm ones are handled by artillery.
Our company level mortars are outdated , outclassed and outranged 51 mm mortars.
Very bad.

they also deployed these close to LAC back in 2020 . 120mm mortar on wheeled chasis

wonder whats the point of these ? when u have self propelled arty

 

[vidhwanshak]

Chinese have more mortars than india .
More 100 mm pp89 mortars that is .
View attachment 234734View attachment 234735View attachment 234736View attachment 234737
Their assault or battle groups carry four of these .
Our 81 mm mortar is a battalion level mortar , and 120 mm ones are handled by artillery.
Our company level mortars are outdated , outclassed and outranged 51 mm mortars.
Very bad.

we need to reorganise.
our battle formation is too old.
I thought that those IBG would change it to some extent but then again after CDS Rawat nothing happend.