India-China Border conflict

Hari Sud

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It has entered the Indian mind set that Chinese armed forces are bigger and they have five times more missiles to blow up Indian position etc.…. etc. All wrong conclusion based on propaganda.

In fact the Chinese armed forces are not that big. The Indian armed forces at 1.4 million and Chinese at 1.8 million are a match. Chinese are not hell of a lot bigger. More than 80% of Chinese armed forces are located facing Taiwan, Japan, Vietnam & positioned on North and South China Sea. Also 80% of their population lives in the east and that is where most of the military bases including airbases and naval bases are located. The remaining 20% of their military is distributed between Tibet, Sinkiang and Russian border. Hence what is facing India at LAC is less than 200,000 to 300,000 men. In order to salami slice part of LAC in Ladakh, they withdrew some units from Sinking under the pretext of an exercise and brought them to Ladakh. These city soldiers on short military duty were most useless and unacclimatized for 12,000 to 16,000 feet cold - 20 to -40 degree duty. Hence the Chinese spent two very miserable years in cold and heights in Ladakh and withdrew before the third winter.

There is another mis-representation of Chinese missile force at LAC in Ladakh. A not so prominent author wrote a book and showed the book to Rahul Gandhi for publicity that Chinese with their missile force can conquer India in 10 days. That is highly inaccurate lack of confidence. Chinese have large number of missiles at LAC but most of their missiles have accuracy problem. It has been proven beyond doubt when they fired a huge number of missiles at Taiwan (Pelosi Visit) that Chinese missiles are inaccurate, hence they have to fire five missiles at the same target to hit it. For India two Brahmos or Prahar missiles with pinpoint accuracy will do the job what five Chinese missiles will do. Hence what is the fear. The fear is false Chinese propaganda.

A similar analysis is true for Chinese airforce and their worst inexperienced navy. The Chinese airforce is copy planes with high level of failures. Pakistani JF-17 is an example. Their copy planes of Russian Su-27 cannot match Indian Su-30Mk1. They have stealth planes of questionable quality. None seen or heard outside of China. Hence their capability is doubtful. None of these can match Indian Rafale Etc.

Cheers……
 

rockdog

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The Weibo guy thought the 16th around meeting somehow means the 【2020 Confrontation】 going to the end, and there is his personal conclusion: (translation by machine revised by me)

[Summary of China India confrontation in 2020]

Our army did not confine itself to the simple confrontation and drive in the past this time, but made a big response rarely seen in previous years. At the same time of the intensified confrontation in Galwan, they took the initiative to cross the actual control line (patrol point) advocated by the Indian side to attack Dapingkou, Hot spring, Kanan Daban, the north bank of PanKong Lake and other areas in the Tiannan Valley, and stationed a large number of troops in all important channels. The support from the rear also continued. The Indian army also mobilized a large number of troops to enter the border, and attacked several points of the actual control line in the south bank of Pankong Lake and Mount Kelas.

Both sides have no intention of launching a full war, and then they will confront, defend and negotiate. After more than two years of 16 rounds of military commander level negotiations and Prime Minister talks, the two sides have reached agreements and disengaged from each other in other regions except the Tiannan Valley.

Results: We deterred the Indian army from taking risks. By taking the initiative to deter the Indian army, we were able to establish a buffer zone during the negotiation, thus achieving clear contact in all hot and controversial areas, blocking the Indian army beyond the actual control line as we thought, blocking several of its patrol routes, and avoiding the Indian army from rushing back and forth like candy.

The purpose of this round of confrontation between our troops is not to expand our territory. What we always adhere to is the claim line of 1959.

Our claim line was realized briefly after the Indian army was expelled in 1962. However, due to the inability to garrison everywhere, the Indian army subsequently resumed patrolling some passages and reoccupied Barigas. In 1998, it occupied the Black Mountain Pass on the south bank of Pankong Lake. In 2013, it faced off in the Tiannan Valley within 8 kilometers of China's border for dozens of days. In October 2015, a post was established to gradually cut off the patrol road outside of our army's Jianan Daban. There are multiple conflicts between F4-F8.

After the separation of most of the friction points this time, our army still has a large number of stationed troops in the near rear for rotation training, which also optimizes the defense zone configuration, builds four border defense companies to strengthen the normalized border defense in key areas, and further strengthens the infrastructure, thus ensuring the responsiveness of the Indian army when it takes another risk.

*the green parts are under controlled by IA,red parts are under controlled by PLA

001.jpg


002.jpg


003.jpg


004.jpg


---------------------------------------------------------

005.jpg


Table of statistics of controversial points:

PP10-PP13: India claimed lost 972 KM2
PP14: IA claimed can't reach PP14, lost patrol road of 1KM long.
PP15: IA clained can't reach PP15, lost 38 KM2
BAnk of Pangong Tso,Gurung Hill: IA claimed lost partol right for 59 KM2
Charding Ninglung Nallah:IA claimed lost of 100 KM2
 

jai jaganath

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The Weibo guy thought the 16th around meeting somehow means the 【2020 Confrontation】 going to the end, and there is his personal conclusion: (translation by machine revised by me)

[Summary of China India confrontation in 2020]

Our army did not confine itself to the simple confrontation and drive in the past this time, but made a big response rarely seen in previous years. At the same time of the intensified confrontation in Galwan, they took the initiative to cross the actual control line (patrol point) advocated by the Indian side to attack Dapingkou, Hot spring, Kanan Daban, the north bank of PanKong Lake and other areas in the Tiannan Valley, and stationed a large number of troops in all important channels. The support from the rear also continued. The Indian army also mobilized a large number of troops to enter the border, and attacked several points of the actual control line in the south bank of Pankong Lake and Mount Kelas.

Both sides have no intention of launching a full war, and then they will confront, defend and negotiate. After more than two years of 16 rounds of military commander level negotiations and Prime Minister talks, the two sides have reached agreements and disengaged from each other in other regions except the Tiannan Valley.

Results: We deterred the Indian army from taking risks. By taking the initiative to deter the Indian army, we were able to establish a buffer zone during the negotiation, thus achieving clear contact in all hot and controversial areas, blocking the Indian army beyond the actual control line as we thought, blocking several of its patrol routes, and avoiding the Indian army from rushing back and forth like candy.

The purpose of this round of confrontation between our troops is not to expand our territory. What we always adhere to is the claim line of 1959.

Our claim line was realized briefly after the Indian army was expelled in 1962. However, due to the inability to garrison everywhere, the Indian army subsequently resumed patrolling some passages and reoccupied Barigas. In 1998, it occupied the Black Mountain Pass on the south bank of Pankong Lake. In 2013, it faced off in the Tiannan Valley within 8 kilometers of China's border for dozens of days. In October 2015, a post was established to gradually cut off the patrol road outside of our army's Jianan Daban. There are multiple conflicts between F4-F8.

After the separation of most of the friction points this time, our army still has a large number of stationed troops in the near rear for rotation training, which also optimizes the defense zone configuration, builds four border defense companies to strengthen the normalized border defense in key areas, and further strengthens the infrastructure, thus ensuring the responsiveness of the Indian army when it takes another risk.

View attachment 171929

View attachment 171930

View attachment 171931

View attachment 171932

---------------------------------------------------------

View attachment 171933

Table of statistics of controversial points:

PP10-PP13: India claimed lost 972 KM2
PP14: IA claimed can't reach PP14, lost patrol road of 1KM long.
PP15: IA clained can't reach PP15, lost 38 KM2
BAnk of Pangong Tso,Gurung Hill: IA claimed lost partol right for 59 KM2
Charding Ninglung Nallah:IA claimed lost of 100 KM2
Is it during 2020 skirmish?
If yes then the fact of losing 1000sqkm is true
 

rockdog

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Is it during 2020 skirmish?
If yes then the fact of losing 1000sqkm is true
It's the situation till now, he called this 2020-2022 confrontation as 【2020 Sino-India Conflict】 as whole.

And he thoguht this incident is almost finished. The border will be relatively peaceful and if there is going to be new conflict, would be considered as new chapter.
 

jai jaganath

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It's the situation till now, he called this 2020-2022 confrontation as 【2020 Sino-India Conflict】 as whole.
And he thoguht this incident is almost finished.
But pp-10 to 13 was just claimed not patrolled I think so
PP15 disengagement was done by both sides but patrolling rights remain the same as far as I know
I might be wrong
Coming to pangong tso I read that PLA was pushed back or went back to previous position
As far as I have read we have lost pp-16 or some confusion regarding it and depsang as it was a legacy issue
 

rockdog

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But pp-10 to 13 was just claimed not patrolled I think so
PP15 disengagement was done by both sides but patrolling rights remain the same as far as I know
I might be wrong
Coming to pangong tso I read that PLA was pushed back or went back to previous position
As far as I have read we have lost pp-16 or some confusion regarding it and depsang as it was a legacy issue
Then let me trasnlate Chinese claims:

005.jpg


PP10-13: PLA claimed couldn't reach the claimed line, and lost 38KM2;

PP14: PLA claimed failed to setup post.

PP15: PLA claimed IA retreated from this point (I don't figure out the meaning of this)

PP17A: PLA claimed failed to setup post.

Banks of the Pangkong Tso: PLA claimed failed to setup post on F4,couldn't reach the black top and lost 13km2.

Charding Ninglung Nallach: PLA claimed that IA still holding 438km2 of देमचोक or Parigas region.
 

Love Charger

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Then let me trasnlate Chinese claims:

View attachment 171934

PP10-13: PLA claimed couldn't reach the claimed line, and lost 38KM2;

PP14: PLA claimed failed to setup post.

PP15: PLA claimed IA retreated from this point (I don't figure out the meaning of this)

PP17A: PLA claimed failed to setup post.

Banks of the Pangkong Tso: PLA claimed failed to setup post on F4,couldn't reach the black top and lost 13km2.

Charding Ninglung Nallach: PLA claimed that IA still holding 438km2 of देमचोक or Parigas region.
Thank you for these insights.
It is good to know about what other side is interpreting this conflict
 

rockdog

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But pp-10 to 13 was just claimed not patrolled I think so
PP15 disengagement was done by both sides but patrolling rights remain the same as far as I know
I might be wrong
Coming to pangong tso I read that PLA was pushed back or went back to previous position
As far as I have read we have lost pp-16 or some confusion regarding it and depsang as it was a legacy issue
I updated this image with some English translation:

009.jpg
 

rockdog

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Thank you for these insights.
It is good to know about what other side is interpreting this conflict
U r welcome, sometimes i feel our cyber military fans were more dedicated on details analyzing than emoitional rant.

I have a plan to drive to Pangkong Tso next month and the Kangxiwa Cemetery including four PLA soldiers graves in 2020 conflict.

It will take 4500KM to get there from my province, I bought everything for this long trip on plateau, but there are lots of places in Tibet is lockdown due to the Zero Covid policy now, I am still parying whether I m lucky enough.
 

nongaddarliberal

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I'm getting the feeling that China got the upper hand in the 2020-22 confrontations, even when the information surrounding these is often opaque and contradictory from both sides.

Which brings up the question, what are the advantages China had/has that it has leveraged in these confrontations vs India? One factor is infrastructure which allows them to move troops to friction points faster.

But India was supposed to have advantages of its own, including entire regiments which are already acclimatized to these heights, better mountain warfare experience, and theoretically shorter supply lines from the plains. Troop numbers are also slightly more on the Indian side.

Most conventional weaponry didn't come into play during this saga, as it was mostly troops pushing and shoving each other and vehicles making advances. In such an operational scenario, one would have thought that the Indian Army would have been at an advantage. But we haven't been able to make these factors work in our favor.
 

Love Charger

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U r welcome, sometimes i feel our cyber military fans were more dedicated on details analyzing than emoitional rant.

I have a plan to drive to Pangkong Tso next month and the Kangxiwa Cemetery including four PLA soldiers graves in 2020 conflict.

It will take 4500KM to get there from my province, I bought everything for this long trip on plateau, but there are lots of places in Tibet is lockdown due to the Zero Covid policy now, I am still parying whether I m lucky enough.
I will be honest, with Pakistanis we know and understand what they think and understand but China its a black hole for us .
Few people here go to weibo except our almost CCP agent @mokoman.
Plus the language barrier , you take the pain to put these maps here and the explanation along with it .
As for the trip , do go but take altitude sickness meds and other things with you ( you already know these hehe )
Now since with all due respect , answer my one question , to whom are you praying ?
We have many gods , Pakistanis have allah Infact Pakistan is run by AAA that is America, Army , allah ( the muslim god) in that order , but who is your god ?
 

rockdog

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I will be honest, with Pakistanis we know and understand what they think and understand but China its a black hole for us .
Few people here go to weibo except our almost CCP agent @mokoman.
Plus the language barrier , you take the pain to put these maps here and the explanation along with it .
As for the trip , do go but take altitude sickness meds and other things with you ( you already know these hehe )
Now since with all due respect , answer my one question , to whom are you praying ?
We have many gods , Pakistanis have allah Infact Pakistan is run by AAA that is America, Army , allah ( the muslim god) in that order , but who is your god ?
Thx for advices,many Chinese vlogger have been there i think there are clips on YouTube.

I pray Budda,with the Chinese localized branch. It's the mix of Buddhism,Taoism,Confucianism,which most Chinese believe in.

Islamic is evil to me and Tibetan Buddhism is a cult to me,not because of Dalai Lama,i have no feeling to him.

I just think Budda is abused by the Tibetan ruling class so called living budda,Dalai is just the biggest one of them. It made the strong Tibetan empire became a weak region even before CCP.

Also during Qing dynasty,the Mongolian believed in Tibetan Buddhism,it caused Mongolia lost massive population and till 1945 there were only 2 millions Mongolian left.

Both Tibet and Mongolia only few millions population left which was not hard for Han Chinese no matter KMT or CCP to establish governance in two regions.
 

Love Charger

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Thx for advices,many Chinese vlogger have been there i think there are clips on YouTube.

I pray Budda,with the Chinese localized branch. It's the mix of Buddhism,Taoism,Confucianism,which most Chinese believe in.

Islamic is evil to me and Tibetan Buddhism is a cult to me,not because of Dalai Lama,i have no feeling to him.

I just think Budda is abused by the Tibetan ruling class so called living budda,Dalai is just the biggest one of them. It made the strong Tibetan empire became a weak region even before CCP.

Also during Qing dynasty,the Mongolian believed in Tibetan Buddhism,it caused Mongolia lost massive population and till 1945 there were only 2 millions Mongolian left.

Both Tibet and Mongolia only few millions population left which was not hard for Han Chinese no matter KMT or CCP to establish governance in two regions.
So yu are nor a devout communist.
Okay okay, that's new to Me.
That evil thing Is evil for everybody.
 

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