India-China Border conflict

[vidhwanshak]

China tests a rocket near LAC that can hit critical Indian Army bases

China tests a rocket near LAC that can hit critical Indian Army bases

China's army tested an advanced Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS) at an altitude of more than 5,300 metres in the Xinjiang Region that could hit critical Indian military bases

www.livemint.com

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[Jimih]

old

Just like him.

 

[Hari Sud]

There are no easy answers to the question. India has followed an predominantly defensive approach towards China for decades. No difference between the BJP and the Congress Governments regarding the strategy.

Not making it political but if tomorrow an Congress Government comes to power in New Delhi certainly don't expect that India will launch an offensive against the Chinese and recapture all our land usurped by the Chinese.

Not going to happen. Because the Indian approach to China is the product of an consensus(almost) among the strategic community cutting across party lines.

Maybe we are biding our time and waiting for our country to gain enough economic and military strength. Now whether this is an good strategy or not can be debated.

Our history of non violence and ahimsa probably played an part in us seeking to avoid conflict. We were not born an Vietnam which defeated both an Superpower(US) and an large regional bully(China).

One valid reason could be that there is a large power differential between the two countries. China had and presently has an much greater industrial base than India.

Probably the biggest advantage that China gained was that it opened up its economy to the international business community(mainly the West) an couple of decades before India. As an result it gained enormously from Foreign Direct Investment and exposure to the latest technologies. For all of their sometimes manipulative policies the West did possess an edge over the rest of the world in innovation and competitiveness. There is quite a lot to be learnt from them.

And to the credit of the Chinese they managed to grow fast without mortgaging their country to the West. Not becoming an vassal of the West. They have managed to retain strategic autonomy and an independent foreign policy.

Something that India can emulate.

But India is catching up. An 10% plus economic growth rate (hope this happens) should see us grow much faster than China and help us close the GDP gap. We need the economy to grow substantially. And our Defence R & D and military industrial complex to balloon in capability. No war can be won only on imported weapons. We should create our own weapons and be in a position to add both quality and quantity to our defense matrix.

There should be no need to desperately seek imported weapons to match any new Chinese weapons system. Our military industrial complex should provide the answers to respond to any existing or future Chinese weapon system.

It might take some amount of time to reach that level of indigenous capability. The question is - can we afford to wait.

If public opinion doesn't want to wait and seeks an immediate answer to Chinese provocations then there is no other solution than to bring the nuclear weapons option on the table. History tells us that such an strategy may work. The NATO alliance countries were outnumbered by the Warsaw Pact countries by an ratio of at least 1:2 as far as number of conventional weapons were concerned. Instead of trying to match the Warsaw Pact in terms of numbers of conventional weapons they implemented an strategy of using tactical nuclear weapons to act as trip wires.

Any major conventional attack would be first responded to by the use of tactical nuclear weapons and which could possibly escalate to the use of strategic nuclear weapons.

It was an risky strategy but it worked. The idea was that an adversary who thinks that the costs of offence will be tolerable will realise that the actual costs could become unbearable. China will not like to risk Beijing or Shanghai for Arunachal Pradesh.

It might well stop the Chinese from taking India for granted and seriously deter their salami slicing strategy. But for it to work we would need to clearly define our red lines. And inform Beijing about what would trigger India into using tactical nuclear weapons on the border.

Ultimately it is Mutually Assured Destruction.

Do we have the guts to go for this strategy wherein nuclear weapons will become the bedrock of our defence strategy.

You missed the point…… Chinese are spending $165 billion a year on defence, which India cannot afford hence the best alternative is to stay defensive but updated on military hardware. The only advantage India has that Chinese weapons are copied/reverse engineered hence there is no guarantee that when push comes shove whether these weapons will work.

Other advantage to India could come if Chinese fight the US over Taiwan and their export cash intake reduced by a big margin then India has a chance to recover that land occupied since 1955….. cheers

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

 

[mist_consecutive]

dont these guys carry a backup parachute .

fucked up if both failed , 4 failed parachutes for both people.

wonder what actual failure rate is with only 1 failing and backup working.

Lad was carrying some kind of payload, maybe HMG ? I wonder if that thing got entangled with the opening parachute. The silence in media regarding this incident is astounding.
Who takes the responsibility for such accidents ? Nothing changed, tomorrow we will see another young lad dead. Fucking sad state of Indian Armed Forces.

 

[Abdus Salem killed]

Lad was carrying some kind of payload, maybe HMG ? I wonder if that thing got entangled with the opening parachute. The silence in media regarding this incident is astounding.
Who takes the responsibility for such accidents ? Nothing changed, tomorrow we will see another young lad dead. Fucking sad state of Indian Armed Forces.

Can you stop calling our soilders "lads" it's a little disgusting these are men

 

[mist_consecutive]

I was expecting this to be a new full-fledged airport capable of fighter operation, seems that is not the case. If this is true, this will be another unpaved "ALG".
Disappointing honestly, only C130J and C-17 (with moderate success) can operate from ALGs, which too it takes a toll on their tire life, and the payload capacity is also reduced.

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

Lad was carrying some kind of payload, maybe HMG ? I wonder if that thing got entangled with the opening parachute. The silence in media regarding this incident is astounding.
Who takes the responsibility for such accidents ? Nothing changed, tomorrow we will see another young lad dead. Fucking sad state of Indian Armed Forces.

Seems like an IGLA, ig he was from para AAD

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Lad was carrying some kind of payload, maybe HMG ? I wonder if that thing got entangled with the opening parachute. The silence in media regarding this incident is astounding.
Who takes the responsibility for such accidents ? Nothing changed, tomorrow we will see another young lad dead. Fucking sad state of Indian Armed Forces.

Seems like an IGLA, ig he was from para AAD

Can't they drop the larger weapons through a palette? Instead of risking lives like this? Or is there some operational reason for this?

 

[omaebakabaka]

Lad was carrying some kind of payload, maybe HMG ? I wonder if that thing got entangled with the opening parachute. The silence in media regarding this incident is astounding.
Who takes the responsibility for such accidents ? Nothing changed, tomorrow we will see another young lad dead. Fucking sad state of Indian Armed Forces.

Accidents are unfortunately not that uncommon whether its exercises or training or real deal. US, Japan, Russia and pretty much every one have them. Training deficiencies if any should be addressed and there should be no room for arrogance or complacency.

 

[Tridev123]

Our Problem is PAKISTAN

We don't want China to Arm Pakistan Beyond a Certain Point

IF you have seen Ukraine war , then the lesson is that A weak country can defeat its Enemy IF it gets a very large number of weapons

So Just as US is arming Ukraine ,China can do the same with Pakistan

Because China's Manufacturing Capabilities are better than USA

So we will have to be very tactful in dealing with China As long as we are NOT prepared for a Full Fledged Two Front War

I don't think that I can agree with you. Pakistan nowadays is more of nuisance value rather than an real threat to our territorial integrity. Their only so called trump card is their nuclear weapons which they cannot use unless they want to commit suicide.

Since the entire country is shallow in depth from the Indian border, we have an range of options to pummel them. Example - the ER Brahmos with 800km range will probably cover every inch of Pakistani soil. And the ITCM will only reinforce that capability. Forget about our ballistic missiles inventory.

So even without our forces entering Pakistan we can seriously damage them.

India has pulled far ahead of Pakistan in the last two decades. Economically and militarily. They have ceased to be a competitor.

China may wish to flood Pakistan with weapons (?). But the West including the United States will not welcome an Muslim nation succeed in subduing India. What signals will it send to other Muslim nations in West Asia and how it will impact Israel. So it will not be so easy for Islamabad. Other countervailing forces will emerge to checkmate the Chinese moves in South Asia.

On the other hand China is in a different league and has an objective to establish its hegemony in Asia. More of an real long term threat to Indian interests.

 

[Tridev123]

You missed the point…… Chinese are spending $165 billion a year on defence, which India cannot afford hence the best alternative is to stay defensive but updated on military hardware. The only advantage India has that Chinese weapons are copied/reverse engineered hence there is no guarantee that when push comes shove whether these weapons will work.

Other advantage to India could come if Chinese fight the US over Taiwan and their export cash intake reduced by a big margin then India has a chance to recover that land occupied since 1955….. cheers

I know that there are certain constraints binding us. Yes, the Chinese currently have a bigger economy.

But many people in India are impatient and feel that we are not giving it back to the PLA forcefully enough. The untold truth is that it would not be difficult for India to do an reverse salami slicing of Chinese controlled territory in Tibet and Xinjiang. The common border is so long and the PLA is not in strength at every point.

There will be repercussions and an counter offensive by the Chinese. Expected.

There is one school of thought that India should wait for the opportune time to take on China rather than hurry into conflict. But nations like Israel and Vietnam probably would adopt a different strategy.

Anyway let's leave it at that.

But the PR battle must also be won. The Indian public opinion needs to be assuaged.

 

[Butter Chicken]

 

[mokoman]

looks like @Spadex716i account got suspended ‍

Can't they drop the larger weapons through a palette? Instead of risking lives like this? Or is there some operational reason for this?

palatte would end up landing too far out maybe .

 

[Jimih]

Info blackout in China

 

[mokoman]

disengagement at pp15

looking like we had to accept chinese proposal .

1 step for them , 3 step backward for us.

 

[The Shrike]

disengagement at pp15

looking like we had to accept chinese proposal .

1 step for them , 3 step backward for us.
...

Weren't these (PP16) permanent structures?

 

[mokoman]

Weren't these (PP16) permanent structures?

dont know , werent these recent , i think came after 2020 , called alfaiii or something .

 

[The Shrike]

dont know , werent these recent , i think came after 2020 , called alfaiii or something .

You mean 34.43070° N, 78.72255° E right?

 

[mokoman]

You mean 34.43070° N, 78.72255° E right?
View attachment 171379

yep this one .

according to guy online , disengagement is even worse . chinese only moved back to 34.588647° 78.614771°.

looking like ~5km for them 37km for us

twitter OSINT people knows this but nobody wants to post bad news