India-China Border conflict

[Kumaoni]

What you said is pretty much true. Even the current chinese strategy rests on large scale mobilisation of troops at the point of contention using superior logistics infrastructure. Normally they keep very little forces opposite LAC most of which are border defense units and paramilitary units filled with conscripts but when there is a crisis they bring in forces from Xinjiang , chengdu, xining , lhasha, to put pressure on opposing forces. This has been the case for a very long time now and the same trend was observed before 2015 PLA reforms. Even before the reforms PLA's chengdu garrison maintained 6 Rapid Reaction Divisions meant to be quickly deployed to important flash points and reinforce PLA forces in Southeastern and central regions of tibet against indian army's eastern command.

From the media’s comments to many posters who comment in social media in regards to China, it seems they are very ill-read about China and the Chinese PLA as well their ideology, and about the conflict in general. This will prove to be a fatal mistake.

 

[Angel of War]

From the media’s comments to many posters who comment in social media in regards to China, it seems they are very ill-read about China and the Chinese PLA as well their ideology, and about the conflict in general. This will prove to be a fatal mistake.

Can you elaborate ?

 

[Spindrift]

Is these pens (we used to call it Chinese pens) still available in market? I remember writing with these pens at school.

Yes, they are easily available on Amazon. Just search for Hero fountain pens and are quite cheap.

 

[Sanglamorre]

You and many others also don't realise the push for chinkshit via "distributors", i.e everyone from actual distributors to those mobile phone shops, everyone used to get( idk if now it is the case ) a bigger commission or something like that from the chinkshit brands like Oppo, Vivo, Xiaomi, so these chinkphones were found in greater quantities than some micromax wagera in phone shops.
Then there are the sums spent by these chinkies on advertising of all kinds, all channels.

So TLDR they have boatloads of cash, whether it is their own moneys made in Chaina or loaned to them generously by CCP owned banks for the purpose of market capture in India, along with actual designing, manufacturing and customized software for all chinkphones they sell.

Micromax wagera meanwhile never paid attention to product or software and pissed money on Hugh Jackman adverts.

And this is just mobile phones, for routers there exists this brand called Digisol, it is an Indian brand with a factory in Goa where the routers are made, the routers themselves are as cheap as Ching routers but have better performance and or reliability than chingshit.
But you go to shops, you go online, most of their products are either not listed or not in stock, meanwhile (((tp-link))) routers are found in abundance and for cheap.

Also Indian manufacturers do not put any consideration on aesthetics. Digisol routers look like boxes compared to tp link or d link etc

 

[Jimih]

Yes, they are easily available on Amazon. Just search for Hero fountain pens and are quite cheap.

I asked particularly about the Chinese ones, it was called Wingsung Chinese pens. Just remembered the name now.

 

[Kumaoni]

Can you elaborate ?

Well this will be quite a long post, but sure.

There are many things Indians simply get wrong about the Chinese. Not due to stupidity, but due to simple ignorance. This is the case with pretty much every country.

Firstly, indians don’t know the reason behind chinas aggression. They believe it’s nothing but blind aggression, but in reality it’s a bit more than that. The century of humiliation is a haunting and recurring subject for many Chinese, hell there are probably people still alive from that century (1839-1950). The Chinaman was plundered, looted, and forced gave up large swathes of land to western imperial powers. The main reason China might seem so aggressive is because it wants to return its borders to pre 1839 status. Not to mentionvarious USA bases that surround China, including South Korea. Not saying china is justified, but it has historical reason for its actions.

Secondly, many Indians write the PLA off as some conscript army and that it won’t stand against its own Jawans. Let me tell you while that conscripts might guard the borders, the PLA troops that will invade India, if it does chose to do so, won’t be some conscript army, but crack select units from the elite of the PLA. Look at the soldiers faces in Galwan videos on the PLA side, they are visibly older and look quite tough, as do their Indian counterparts. Also, that video of PLA soldierscrying while going to the LaC. just stop it. Many young soldiers of all armies face homesickness, it’s a common human trait and nothing wrong with it. Next, Indians are quite unaware of the PLA way of fighting, they think that they use futile frontal charges when in reality they infiltrate behind and between their enemy lines and suprise them. They did this numerous times in 1962 and the Korean War, and it worked.

Thirdly, Indian media describes border infrastructure and PLA aircraft flying to close as “provocative” when it’s mere work beinf done on the Chinese side. Anything the Chinese does on their side is not provocative, they are simply doing mind games with the Indian media, as they see Indian media’s obsession with China. India is falling right into the China trap. A forward policy with strong logistic support is the only way to foil them from attacking.

Fourthly, Indians are quite unaware of the actual history of this conflict. They have been fed for generations that China simply backstabbed innocent India. What I say might come up as uncomfortable for many reading, but it’s a simple truth. The truth is that, while China indeed started the military hostilities and built a road into Aksai, we also provided covert support to the CIA in the tibet uprising and pushed a forward policy in 1960. Mao just waited for the time to “teach infia a lesson”,that’s all. Similarly, in the middle of the conflict, they again offered to negotiate with India, but this was rejected. China is more at fault, but india isn’t innocent either. Infia should have prepared more instead of getting overconfident after 1961 GoaAlso, indians are quite unaware of the military mistakes made, Esp at Namka Chu and squarely blame it on politicians.

 

[Blademaster]

Well this will be quite a long post, but sure.

There are many things Indians simply get wrong about the Chinese. Not due to stupidity, but due to simple ignorance. This is the case with pretty much every country.

Firstly, indians don’t know the reason behind chinas aggression. They believe it’s nothing but blind aggression, but in reality it’s a bit more than that. The century of humiliation is a haunting and recurring subject for many Chinese, hell there are probably people still alive from that century (1839-1950). The Chinaman was plundered, looted, and forced gave up large swathes of land to western imperial powers. The main reason China might seem so aggressive is because it wants to return its borders to pre 1839 status. Not to mentionvarious USA bases that surround China, including South Korea. Not saying china is justified, but it has historical reason for its actions.

Secondly, many Indians write the PLA off as some conscript army and that it won’t stand against its own Jawans. Let me tell you while that conscripts might guard the borders, the PLA troops that will invade India, if it does chose to do so, won’t be some conscript army, but crack select units from the elite of the PLA. Look at the soldiers faces in Galwan videos on the PLA side, they are visibly older and look quite tough, as do their Indian counterparts. Also, that video of PLA soldierscrying while going to the LaC. just stop it. Many young soldiers of all armies face homesickness, it’s a common human trait and nothing wrong with it. Next, Indians are quite unaware of the PLA way of fighting, they think that they use futile frontal charges when in reality they infiltrate behind and between their enemy lines and suprise them. They did this numerous times in 1962 and the Korean War, and it worked.

Thirdly, Indian media describes border infrastructure and PLA aircraft flying to close as “provocative” when it’s mere work beinf done on the Chinese side. Anything the Chinese does on their side is not provocative, they are simply doing mind games with the Indian media, as they see Indian media’s obsession with China. India is falling right into the China trap. A forward policy with strong logistic support is the only way to foil them from attacking.

Fourthly, Indians are quite unaware of the actual history of this conflict. They have been fed for generations that China simply backstabbed innocent India. What I say might come up as uncomfortable for many reading, but it’s a simple truth. The truth is that, while China indeed started the military hostilities and built a road into Aksai, we also provided covert support to the CIA in the tibet uprising and pushed a forward policy in 1960. Mao just waited for the time to “teach infia a lesson”,that’s all. Similarly, in the middle of the conflict, they again offered to negotiate with India, but this was rejected. China is more at fault, but india isn’t innocent either. Infia should have prepared more instead of getting overconfident after 1961 GoaAlso, indians are quite unaware of the military mistakes made, Esp at Namka Chu and squarely blame it on politicians.

Several points -

Number 1 - that pre 1839 border status is a myth propagated by the Chinese. China never had full control of Tibet or clearly delineated the borders. How could they? it was covered by mountains and impassable passes. Tibet was a fully autonomous region for centuries. It only paid lip service tribute to the Chinese Han emperor but was largely left on its own.

Number 2 - Noone in India expect human wave style tactics from China. In fact IA fully expects PLA to be a very formidable fighting machine and enemy.

Number 3 - border infrastructure is not provocative in itself but when PLA commits numerous incursions and make territorial claims beyond the border line and prepare the border infrastructure as a means to extend their borders, it is definitely provocative and worrisome.

Number 4 - Mao also provided material support to the Naxals and insurgents during that time period as well and India did not try to invade Tibet. So your argument that India needs to share the blame is utter bullshit. China started the war and grabbed territories through force and annexation. Blame falls squarely on China's shoulders.

 

[Kumaoni]

Number 1 - that pre 1839 border status is a myth propagated by the Chinese. China never had full control of Tibet or clearly delineated the borders. How could they? it was covered by mountains and impassable passes. Tibet was a fully autonomous region for centuries. It only paid lip service tribute to the Chinese Han emperor but was largely left on its own.

Last battle fought between the Dogras and Tibetans under the Qing protection was in Chushul. I don’t see how Aksai was ever occupied by the Dogras. Tibet was a Qing Protectorate, and the Chinese want pre 1839 border status nearly everywhere

Number 3 - border infrastructure is not provocative in itself but when PLA commits numerous incursions and make territorial claims beyond the border line and prepare the border infrastructure as a means to extend their borders, it is definitely provocative and worrisome.

they haven’t done any incursions since 2020

Number 4 - Mao also provided material support to the Naxals and insurgents during that time period as well and India did not try to invade Tibet. So your argument that India needs to share the blame is utter bullshit. China started the war and grabbed territories through force and annexation. Blame falls squarely on China's shoulders.

Then what was the forward policy bullshit then, it was poorly planned that even Indian generals were questioning wether some of the posts like Dhola were legal. Also, I need a nuetral source that China is supporting Naxalites. It was dirt poor in maos time

 

[Blademaster]

Last battle fought between the Dogras and Tibetans under the Qing protection was in Chushul. I don’t see how Aksai was ever occupied by the Dogras. Tibet was a Qing Protectorate, and the Chinese want pre 1839 border status nearly everywhere

Yes but that doesn't mean that they have historical precedent. They are just making up historical claims with no basis to it. It's like saying because Sri Lanka was part of a great Indian empire centuries ago therefore Sri Lanka belongs to India.

they haven’t done any incursions since 2020

That is due to the good work of IA checking PLA movements.

Then what was the forward policy bullshit then, it was poorly planned that even Indian generals were questioning wether some of the posts like Dhola were legal. Also, I need a nuetral source that China is supporting Naxalites. It was dirt poor in maos time

Check out West Bengal during the 1950s. Here's a link to peruse. https://www.sahapedia.org/calcutta-1950s-and-1970s-what-made-it-hotbed-rebellions

Communist parties in WB received material support from China during the 1950s. This was the basis of the birth of Naxalism.

 

[mokoman]

Last battle fought between the Dogras and Tibetans under the Qing protection was in Chushul. I don’t see how Aksai was ever occupied by the Dogras. Tibet was a Qing Protectorate, and the Chinese want pre 1839 border status nearly everywhere

they haven’t done any incursions since 2020

Then what was the forward policy bullshit then, it was poorly planned that even Indian generals were questioning wether some of the posts like Dhola were legal. Also, I need a nuetral source that China is supporting Naxalites. It was dirt poor in maos time

as i read it , that battle between quing and dogras ended with a treaty that demarcated the border. only problem is actual border line wasnt specified exactly , nobody knows where it is and whether it includes aksai chin or not.

 

[tribendra bisoi..]

Well this will be quite a long post, but sure.

There are many things Indians simply get wrong about the Chinese. Not due to stupidity, but due to simple ignorance. This is the case with pretty much every country.

Firstly, indians don’t know the reason behind chinas aggression. They believe it’s nothing but blind aggression, but in reality it’s a bit more than that. The century of humiliation is a haunting and recurring subject for many Chinese, hell there are probably people still alive from that century (1839-1950). The Chinaman was plundered, looted, and forced gave up large swathes of land to western imperial powers. The main reason China might seem so aggressive is because it wants to return its borders to pre 1839 status. Not to mentionvarious USA bases that surround China, including South Korea. Not saying china is justified, but it has historical reason for its actions.

Secondly, many Indians write the PLA off as some conscript army and that it won’t stand against its own Jawans. Let me tell you while that conscripts might guard the borders, the PLA troops that will invade India, if it does chose to do so, won’t be some conscript army, but crack select units from the elite of the PLA. Look at the soldiers faces in Galwan videos on the PLA side, they are visibly older and look quite tough, as do their Indian counterparts. Also, that video of PLA soldierscrying while going to the LaC. just stop it. Many young soldiers of all armies face homesickness, it’s a common human trait and nothing wrong with it. Next, Indians are quite unaware of the PLA way of fighting, they think that they use futile frontal charges when in reality they infiltrate behind and between their enemy lines and suprise them. They did this numerous times in 1962 and the Korean War, and it worked.

Thirdly, Indian media describes border infrastructure and PLA aircraft flying to close as “provocative” when it’s mere work beinf done on the Chinese side. Anything the Chinese does on their side is not provocative, they are simply doing mind games with the Indian media, as they see Indian media’s obsession with China. India is falling right into the China trap. A forward policy with strong logistic support is the only way to foil them from attacking.

Fourthly, Indians are quite unaware of the actual history of this conflict. They have been fed for generations that China simply backstabbed innocent India. What I say might come up as uncomfortable for many reading, but it’s a simple truth. The truth is that, while China indeed started the military hostilities and built a road into Aksai, we also provided covert support to the CIA in the tibet uprising and pushed a forward policy in 1960. Mao just waited for the time to “teach infia a lesson”,that’s all. Similarly, in the middle of the conflict, they again offered to negotiate with India, but this was rejected. China is more at fault, but india isn’t innocent either. Infia should have prepared more instead of getting overconfident after 1961 GoaAlso, indians are quite unaware of the military mistakes made, Esp at Namka Chu and squarely blame it on politicians.

I dont agree with that historical hurt psychology . And there by justification of expansionism and hostilities of chinese towards countries surrounding . West cries all the times saying democracy , human rights , freedom etc .. Do you believe they give a shit about these stuffs given their historical record in this regard ? They ll simply turn their head when you are a good boy like Ukraine . These are all screen for common noobs . Its all about psychological war , putting forward a image .

3 things determine activities of a nation - perceived national interest at that time , power over other countries ( military , economic , psychological , resources ) , Making the targeted country to follow policies suitable to your own country .

There are opinions that wolf warrior diplomacy and activities are counter productive and then there are opinions that it works .

And then india with similar population of China , may be a possible good economic / military growth Situating on border connected to Tibet where hardly anybody lives , Growing india USA relation might create some thoughts among some people . It cld be false threat perception . But its human nature .

 

[Kumaoni]

I dont agree with that historical hurt psychology . And there by justification of expansionism and hostilities of chinese towards countries surrounding . West cries all the times saying democracy , human rights , freedom etc .. Do you believe they give a shit about these stuffs given their historical record in this regard ? They ll simply turn their head when you are a good boy like Ukraine . These are all screen for common noobs . Its all about psychological war , putting forward a image .

3 things determine activities of a nation - perceived national interest at that time , power over other countries ( military , economic , psychological , resources ) , Making the targeted country to follow policies suitable to your own country .

There are opinions that wolf warrior diplomacy and activities are counter productive and then there are opinions that it works .

And then india with similar population of China , may be a possible good economic / military growth Situating on border connected to Tibet where hardly anybody lives , Growing india USA relation might create some thoughts among some people . It cld be false threat perception . But its human nature .

They use it to stoke hyper nationalism. Their intentions for it are quite diverse and vary.

Yes but that doesn't mean that they have historical precedent. They are just making up historical claims with no basis to it. It's like saying because Sri Lanka was part of a great Indian empire centuries ago therefore Sri Lanka belongs to India.

Well, to be fair, China has seen more political unity than India, and many empires from mainland China often kept tibet as a vassal state.

geopolitics knows no moralities.

Check out West Bengal during the 1950s. Here's a link to peruse. https://www.sahapedia.org/calcutta-1950s-and-1970s-what-made-it-hotbed-rebellions

Communist parties in WB received material support from China during the 1950s. This was the basis of the birth of Naxalism.

The Naxalite movement is quite complex in itself, heck even the communist parties in infia have squabbles between eachother AFAIK. Naxalite leaders are basically castiest fucks who exploit genuine concerns of adivasis and use them as cannon fodder to get power. The movement itself isn’t a Chinese creation, but a variety of factors. Tho I have yet to come across accusations of china supporting it, simply because they were so dirt poor back then they simply didn’t have the money for it.

as i read it , that battle between quing and dogras ended with a treaty that demarcated the border. only problem is actual border line wasnt specified exactly , nobody knows where it is and whether it includes aksai chin or not.

Finally someone who says this. I was afraid of saying it as I’ll be called a wumao bot and a paki. The truth is that, geographically, Aksai favors china more (evidenced by how easy they captured it). I sometimes thinks brits deliberately drew it to put india Ina weak position against China. The real major battle of Chusul and Rezang La was the first battle in which more than a platoon size of troops fought in this front.

 

[mokoman]

They use it to stoke hyper nationalism. Their intentions for it are quite diverse and vary.

Well, to be fair, China has seen more political unity than India, and many empires from mainland China often kept tibet as a vassal state.

geopolitics knows no moralities.

The Naxalite movement is quite complex in itself, heck even the communist parties in infia have squabbles between eachother AFAIK. Naxalite leaders are basically castiest fucks who exploit genuine concerns of adivasis and use them as cannon fodder to get power. The movement itself isn’t a Chinese creation, but a variety of factors. Tho I have yet to come across accusations of china supporting it, simply because they were so dirt poor back then they simply didn’t have the money for it.

Finally someone who says this. I was afraid of saying it as I’ll be called a wumao bot and a paki. The truth is that, geographically, Aksai favors china more (evidenced by how easy they captured it). I sometimes thinks brits deliberately drew it to put india Ina weak position against China. The real major battle of Chusul and Rezang La was the first battle in which more than a platoon size of troops fought in this front.

Finally someone who says this. I was afraid of saying it as I’ll be called a wumao bot and a paki. The truth is that, geographically, Aksai favors china more (evidenced by how easy they captured it).

actually it was a test , and u failed.

Aksai Chin™ has always been a indivisible and integral part of India™ .

@ezsasa plz ban this wumo

 

[Kumaoni]

Finally someone who says this. I was afraid of saying it as I’ll be called a wumao bot and a paki. The truth is that, geographically, Aksai favors china more (evidenced by how easy they captured it).

actually it was a test , and u failed.

Aksai Chin™ has always been a indivisible and integral part of India™ .

@ezsasa plz ban this wumo

View attachment 163848

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

Me to you.

 

[Jimih]

Well this will be quite a long post, but sure.

There are many things Indians simply get wrong about the Chinese. Not due to stupidity, but due to simple ignorance. This is the case with pretty much every country.

Firstly, indians don’t know the reason behind chinas aggression. They believe it’s nothing but blind aggression, but in reality it’s a bit more than that. The century of humiliation is a haunting and recurring subject for many Chinese, hell there are probably people still alive from that century (1839-1950). The Chinaman was plundered, looted, and forced gave up large swathes of land to western imperial powers. The main reason China might seem so aggressive is because it wants to return its borders to pre 1839 status. Not to mentionvarious USA bases that surround China, including South Korea. Not saying china is justified, but it has historical reason for its actions.

Secondly, many Indians write the PLA off as some conscript army and that it won’t stand against its own Jawans. Let me tell you while that conscripts might guard the borders, the PLA troops that will invade India, if it does chose to do so, won’t be some conscript army, but crack select units from the elite of the PLA. Look at the soldiers faces in Galwan videos on the PLA side, they are visibly older and look quite tough, as do their Indian counterparts. Also, that video of PLA soldierscrying while going to the LaC. just stop it. Many young soldiers of all armies face homesickness, it’s a common human trait and nothing wrong with it. Next, Indians are quite unaware of the PLA way of fighting, they think that they use futile frontal charges when in reality they infiltrate behind and between their enemy lines and suprise them. They did this numerous times in 1962 and the Korean War, and it worked.

Thirdly, Indian media describes border infrastructure and PLA aircraft flying to close as “provocative” when it’s mere work beinf done on the Chinese side. Anything the Chinese does on their side is not provocative, they are simply doing mind games with the Indian media, as they see Indian media’s obsession with China. India is falling right into the China trap. A forward policy with strong logistic support is the only way to foil them from attacking.

Fourthly, Indians are quite unaware of the actual history of this conflict. They have been fed for generations that China simply backstabbed innocent India. What I say might come up as uncomfortable for many reading, but it’s a simple truth. The truth is that, while China indeed started the military hostilities and built a road into Aksai, we also provided covert support to the CIA in the tibet uprising and pushed a forward policy in 1960. Mao just waited for the time to “teach infia a lesson”,that’s all. Similarly, in the middle of the conflict, they again offered to negotiate with India, but this was rejected. China is more at fault, but india isn’t innocent either. Infia should have prepared more instead of getting overconfident after 1961 GoaAlso, indians are quite unaware of the military mistakes made, Esp at Namka Chu and squarely blame it on politicians.

These are the very words that are been circulated in weibo and Chinese universities.

Chinese job will be easy in the thread, because they are been aided by our own.

 

[Kumaoni]

These are the very words that are been circulated in weibo and Chinese universities.

Chinese job will be easy in the thread, because they are been aided by our own.

I’ve never been on Weibo, but this is what they seem to believe.

 

[Jimih]

I’ve never been on Weibo, but this is what they seem to believe.

Your further posts in this thread will be scrutinised from now on.

I will make it sure.

 

[ezsasa]

These are the very words that are been circulated in weibo and Chinese universities.

Chinese job will be easy in the thread, because they are been aided by our own.

maybe the lad is attending Confucius institute in his university.

 

[Jimih]

maybe the lad is attending Confucius institute in his university.

Very possible.

 

[mokoman]

I’ve never been on Weibo, but this is what they seem to believe.

i kinda agree , i think its not completely propaganda . my understanding is border in aksai chin and doklam was not clear cut historically .

of course Chinese dont give a shit , even if there was evidence it was ceded by qing+Tibet to dogras , wont change anything.

best example of this is the ancient fort in pangong tso banks . fort lies close to what we claim as our actual border , 20 km outside of LAC , this is actual border between India and tibet . its why the fort exists in first place . but chinese took over entire area + some more in 1959 itself .