India-China Border conflict

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Various strategies to beef up our capabilities are available if funds are not a problem. All practical suggestions are welcome.

But strategy wise our war objectives against China should change drastically.
Unless we aim to capture and hold Tibet and Xinjiang territory in its entirety true deterrence against China will not be achieved.

Now immediately some people would say that China is 3 times India's size and even dreaming of freeing Tibet and Xinjiang from Chinese occupation is an exercise in futility and foolhardy. They will point out the disparity that exists in the industrial capacity of the two countries.

Yes, China is bigger than India. But who allowed them to become big. Even a 100 years ago both Tibet and Xinjiang were really not part of China. And these two regions are not small nations. Tibet is a minimum of 2 million square kilometres of land and Xinjiang probably 1 million square kilometres big(somebody can correct these figures if needed). Without Tibet and Xinjiang China would be around 6 million square kilometres big. While India with Tibet and Xinjiang would be about 5 million square kilometres big. (all figures are approximate). Not too much of a difference.

Now nobody is saying that India should do a Ghenghis Khan and capture Beijing. Or even become an Alexander or Nepoleon.

But at least thinking of capturing Tibet or Xinjiang cannot be an impossible dream.
Is the plan totally unachievable.

Let us look at some facts.
Chinese economic growth has peaked and is plateauing. No more 10% plus growth figures. The West will not allow high level of Chinese exports to their countries. So the long term trend will be around 5% growth.

Their population is ageing and will decline in the future. The young working population will also decline. So more numbers of pensioners. Non productive and dependent population.

The situation is almost opposite in India as far as demographics goes.

India on the other hand has not yet peaked. The era of plus 10% growth is very much possible. So we will grow faster than China and start closing the gap between the economies. Now whether we come close to China's GDP figures within one decade or two decades is to be seen. But one inescapable fact is that India will continuously close the economic gap with China. So finding resources for defence should not be a problem.

As far as scientific and technological capabilities are concerned though China may be ahead of India in a few areas, India will catch up and should exceed the level of China in the not too distant future. A big factor will be the access to Western technologies. Something that the Chinese do not enjoy. Though China has progressed a lot technologically it is still an decade behind Europe and the US in many areas.

So to put it in simple terms, the future favours India.

Nobody is underestimating the challenges ahead. Both Tibet and Xinjiang are very big regions area wise. Building up sufficient forces to take on the PLA and the PLAAF in these two regions and prevailing over them is an daunting task. But I believe we should think big and aim big. The fast growing Indian economy should provide wings to our dreams.

Our land forces should even aim for an numerical superiority over the PLA Army strength (looking at Chinese force levels in Tibet and Xinjiang) as far as men under arms are concerned.Equipment wise the Indian Army should at least match the equipment levels of the PLA Army. It will be necessary for the IAF to achieve technological superiority over the PLAAF. This can be done with some help from the West. (As India's defence R & D picks up pace, I anticipate Indian indigenous weapons becoming even better than equivalent Chinese weapons. That will happen in the next decade, I guess.).

We would need to push back Chinese forces in Tibet and Xinjiang, capture territory and also hold on to the captured territory.

A lot of money, men and material would be needed. But if we want to take on China as an equal then probably there is no alternative to thinking big and planning big.

Matching China in terms of road and rail infrastructure should be the first priority of India
China is rapidly improving the infrastructure in Tibbet and they’re also creating infrastructure in Nepal

 

[ym888]

Matching China in terms of road and rail infrastructure should be the first priority of India
China is rapidly improving the infrastructure in Tibbet and they’re also creating infrastructure in Nepal

It takes a lot of money



And that infrastructure is not profitable

 

[another_armchair]

It takes a lot of money



And that infrastructure is not profitable

Just like the profitable ghost towns and cities in China crumbling with every passing day...

 

[flanker99]

Science Fiction like "Middle Kingdom" and it's real capability

Replacement of Commanders after Commanders is a sign of defeat and incompetence

didnt one of their WTC generals died because he couldnt handle the high altitudes?....anyroad IMO it could also mean party is unhappy with their performance but atleast they are holding failures accountable how many heads from our side rolled after our security apparatus failed to properly respond to the initial chinese deployments in early 2020?

 

[ym888]

Just like the profitable ghost towns and cities in China crumbling with every passing day...

This is the product of rapid economic development


Real estate development can drive the economy


It also creates bubbles

 

[another_armchair]

This is the product of rapid economic development


Real estate development can drive the economy


It also creates bubbles

The Chinese tofu real estate has generated more froth than bubbles.

 

[ym888]

The Chinese tofu real estate has generated more froth than bubbles.

Yes.



Shanghai is far behind Mumbai

 

[another_armchair]

Yes.



Shanghai is far behind Mumbai

.... in real estate success stories.

 

[ym888]

.... in real estate success stories.

oh



Beijing is much worse than New Delhi

 

[another_armchair]

oh



Beijing is much worse than New Delhi

Yes it is. Takes some honesty to admit. Quite appreciable when it comes from a 50 ¢'er.

Hope the candid admissions don't blunt your social credit score.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

What is the technology gap you are talking about


Do you predict when India will catch up with China

And state your evidence

What technology does China actually have that Indian entrepreneurs cannot catch up to? Most of the tech China has is well known and nowhere near the dominant tech western countries possess. Doing everything in large quantities is not technology, btw. Indians have complete capability to develop air breathing engines and therefore hypersonic capabilities. Indian private companies can certainly trail blaze in drones. Some like Skyroot Aerospace in Hyderabad just built the first private cryogenic engine to launch small satellites. Check out their Vikram 1/2/3 launch vehicles and the cool new tech that has gone into those. There are several aerospace and hardware tech companies funded by top VCs in the world. They are not going to fund unless the underlying team is brilliant and the tech is feasible. The biggest thing the Indian government did in defense manufacturing is allowed private companies. And Indian private companies are very good at building feasible, hi-tech products at scale. anyone who underestimates the tech that is now going to come from Indian startups and established businesses is doing so at their own peril. The Modi government has successfully pivoted the slow, inefficient government departments to effectively partner with private companies to innovate and scale rapidly. Just look at the rapid aerospace ecosystem developing in India. Just look at Bangalore - it used to be just known for IT outsourcing but now it is fast becoming a globally known innovation center with one of the largest VC investments in the world flowing there every year. Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore, Pune and Hyderabad are going to compete well with top Chinese cities soon as very good cities to attract top global talent and work in. The infrastructure in many parts of these cities are now world class and comparable to developed nations. India only need 5 or 6 cities with world class infrastructure to attract and retain global talent and that is very much happening. And that is why the tech gap will lessen as most of China’s tech comes from inefficient capital deployed by CCP owned state companies who are never going to be as efficient as private innovation.
And the western world now trusts Indian companies with advanced defense tech - a big, big plus. China has no chance of winning the trust of the original tech holders like Japan, Russia, and the West. so, yes In companies will leapfrog in tech rapidly and the current edge in Chinese tech in some areas is going to be fast closing. That is why the CCP is paranoid. They know what is coming their way and they are putting up a false bravado with all these border skirmishes. Commies are good at hiding things and putting on a smokescreen of development, just like Chinese with all those empty buildings and hugely loss making HSR just to show smokescreen GDP numbers. Think Soviet Union - first to reach space and developer of several key defense tech, yet still collapsed due to similar strategies.
‘Indian innovation is going to reach a critical mass very soon and that is when the fun is going to begin as one key tech after another gets rolled out in rapid succession.

 

[Butter Chicken]

 

[ezsasa]

Tanvi Madan asked the question.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Tanvi Madan asked the question.

Let’s see when the west confiscates all the CCP bribe money paid properties there and kicks out all the CCP families from there if they will still stick it to Taiwan. There is every chance that Taiwan will go nuclear. Is China ready to lose Shanghai or Shenzhen to gain Taiwan? Lol. No way knowing how money minded an average Chinese is.

 

[ezsasa]

Let’s see when the west confiscates all the CCP bribe money paid properties there and kicks out all the CCP families from there if they will still stick it to Taiwan. There is every chance that Taiwan will go nuclear. Is China ready to lose Shanghai or Shenzhen to gain Taiwan? Lol. No way knowing how money minded an average Chinese is.

Taiwan doesn’t need to go nuclear, a thousand cruise missiles launched into mainland China across major cities In retaliation will bring CCP down. CCP’s strength is not it’s military, it’s the perception of being strong. CCP’s proposition for decades to Chinese people is that, you give us power we give you security, that’s the deal.

If CCP is not able to secure mainland China, the deal is off. The rumblings will start.

 

[Tridev123]

This is a good piece of science fiction

Ok, you are entitled to your opinion.
But why are you calling it (science) fiction.
Calling it an fictional scenario would be more appropriate. Where does science come into it. Have I mentioned starships and alien technology being used.
Have you seen any science fiction movies at all. Hollywood has produced a lot of them.

Now if I had said anything about Indian tanks rolling into Tiannanmen Square in Beijing or entering the streets of Shanghai, you would be right in probably calling it an fully fictional scenario.

I am speaking of Chinese occupied areas contiguous to our borders. Is Lhasa and Urumqui really that far from Indian borders. If the supply lines of the PLA originating from Mainland China is cut(both rail and road links) and remain cut due to repeated attacks by IAF aircraft and all the airfields in Tibet and Xinjiang are put out of action(take off and landing strips severely damaged) and the trapped Chinese forces come under severe and sustained aerial bombardment (after the IAF decimates the PLAAF fighter and bomber forces in Tibet and Xinjiang), can the possibility of trapped Chinese forces surrendering be totally ruled out.

While the chances of such a scenario playing out can be debated, it is certainly not an science fiction story. Who knows it might well happen. Assuming that China also comes under pressure because of conflict breaking out on the Korean peninsula and an Taiwan invasion by China meets strong American military response.

Don't overrate yourself, Chinese fan boy.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Taiwan doesn’t need to go nuclear, a thousand cruise missiles launched into mainland China across major cities In retaliation will bring CCP down. CCP’s strength is not it’s military, it’s the perception of being strong. CCP’s proposition for decades to Chinese people is that, you give us power we give you security, that’s the deal.

If CCP is not able to secure mainland China, the deal is off. The rumblings will start.

Cruise missiles itself won't do much damage that china can't take on, unless they are backed by nuke even small tactical one which can create maximum damage.

Nukes will guarantee them military intervention is off the cards from Chinese side.

But at the same time their politics and Chinese infiltration is at all time high since they are neither divided by religion nor ethnicity or language .

China is really stupid to even threaten Taiwan when they are essentially the same people , for me it is simply stupid politics.

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

Single jawan, not two.

Army jawan from Doon missing from India-China border in Arunachal Pradesh for nearly 2 weeks | India News - Times of India

India News: DEHRADUN: An Army jawan from Dehradun deployed on the India-China border in Arunachal Pradesh has been missing for the past 13 days, causing great anx.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Probably not related to China IMO.

It is 2

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

What technology does China actually have that Indian entrepreneurs cannot catch up to? Most of the tech China has is well known and nowhere near the dominant tech western countries possess. Doing everything in large quantities is not technology, btw. Indians have complete capability to develop air breathing engines and therefore hypersonic capabilities. Indian private companies can certainly trail blaze in drones. Some like Skyroot Aerospace in Hyderabad just built the first private cryogenic engine to launch small satellites. Check out their Vikram 1/2/3 launch vehicles and the cool new tech that has gone into those. There are several aerospace and hardware tech companies funded by top VCs in the world. They are not going to fund unless the underlying team is brilliant and the tech is feasible. The biggest thing the Indian government did in defense manufacturing is allowed private companies. And Indian private companies are very good at building feasible, hi-tech products at scale. anyone who underestimates the tech that is now going to come from Indian startups and established businesses is doing so at their own peril. The Modi government has successfully pivoted the slow, inefficient government departments to effectively partner with private companies to innovate and scale rapidly. Just look at the rapid aerospace ecosystem developing in India. Just look at Bangalore - it used to be just known for IT outsourcing but now it is fast becoming a globally known innovation center with one of the largest VC investments in the world flowing there every year. Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore, Pune and Hyderabad are going to compete well with top Chinese cities soon as very good cities to attract top global talent and work in. The infrastructure in many parts of these cities are now world class and comparable to developed nations. India only need 5 or 6 cities with world class infrastructure to attract and retain global talent and that is very much happening. And that is why the tech gap will lessen as most of China’s tech comes from inefficient capital deployed by CCP owned state companies who are never going to be as efficient as private innovation.
And the western world now trusts Indian companies with advanced defense tech - a big, big plus. China has no chance of winning the trust of the original tech holders like Japan, Russia, and the West. so, yes In companies will leapfrog in tech rapidly and the current edge in Chinese tech in some areas is going to be fast closing. That is why the CCP is paranoid. They know what is coming their way and they are putting up a false bravado with all these border skirmishes. Commies are good at hiding things and putting on a smokescreen of development, just like Chinese with all those empty buildings and hugely loss making HSR just to show smokescreen GDP numbers. Think Soviet Union - first to reach space and developer of several key defense tech, yet still collapsed due to similar strategies.
‘Indian innovation is going to reach a critical mass very soon and that is when the fun is going to begin as one key tech after another gets rolled out in rapid succession.

Many of your points are valid. But dude, don't underestimate the Chinese that much. They are conquering more verticals than we are. They already built a 40W, 4kHz Argon Flouride Laser.
Where do you think we stand in this vertical? Not even at the starting line yet. Its going to take a heck of a lot more than just time to catch up to the Chinese on all fronts.

 

[SUPERPOWER]

Science Fiction like "Middle Kingdom" and it's real capability

Replacement of Commanders after Commanders is a sign of defeat and incompetence

New Lady Boy appointed....