India-China Border conflict

[Angel of War]

i pray to all gods that we grow 2 balls and a spine and say "fuck u" to the Chinese .

Mashallah this will happen one day

 

[India Super Power]

Don't believe the chinese narrative . They haven't achieved their objective of coercing india into submission to abandon our indo pacific strategy .

But somewhat partial objective achieved by occupying depsang and pushing us in Gogra-Hotspring

 

[Angel of War]

But somewhat partial objective achieved by occupying depsang and pushing us in Gogra-Hotspring

Pushing us ? How can they push when we are not even there . They simply came and occupied whatever was empty . We only did patrolling once a week .

 

[India Super Power]

Pushing us ? How can they push when we are not even there . They simply came and occupied whatever was empty . We only did patrolling once a week .

But we claimed it right ?
If yes then they have occupied it

 

[Joe Shearer]

Currently, it appears that they are exceeding our plains speed of 20 kms a day. This is very, very worrying.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Oh we think similarly? Which is why we send their bodies back in full military honors with award citations, have memorials for some of their fallen shaheed and they send our bodies back mutilated right? That’s why PaKisTanI generals write about “massacaring Indians” in battles, when Indian generals admit their own failures god knows how many times? Their country is based on a hate for Hindu indiaC and they have an obsession with defeating it to lead the Muslim world.

Or I assume that’s why a Nonmuslim couldn’t even join the Pakistan Armed forces till 200

You are quite right, I am wrong. Carry on.

 

[Angel of War]

But we claimed it right ?
If yes then they have occupied it

Occupation of unmanned territory is not equal to pushing

 

[mist_consecutive]

have to really disagree with this idea .

F4 was also a buffer zone , once upon a time , claimed by both sides , patrolled by both sides.

we "lost" it after they build that road .

Yep, precisely what I want to convey. Infrastructure on the ground > Pansy claims.

F4 was claimed by both sides, but that claim was backed up by infrastructure development by China, we only played theatrics by occasional patrolling.

depsang was also same , before 2009 there was no road , no outposts , even after 2009 there were no permanent chinese presence there .

why didnt we push forward and occupy atleast 1km beyond y junction ?

we can drive trucks there , we can build outpost there ? why didnt we ?

Because our govt/military installation is corrupt and peacefools? No one wants trouble, everybody wants a trunk full of cash and easy life.

No territory is captured until there are boots on the ground.

easy to say this .

but large sections of LAC is under a "time share" model . like this rock in a ridge along the LAC in AP

both sides patrol it in 1 month apart - paint "India" / "China" on it . local commanders most probably agree on a patrol date so there is no clash .

View attachment 154707


its a shitty situation but this is what the reality is now .

we need to slowly build up our road network . then build feeder roads to LAC

IMHO atleast in AP we are still decade away from it.

if we try to push forward , we may end up losing more , which is why the gov is acting the way it does .

atleast that is my theory

These territories are now currently "claimed", or weakly controlled by both sides, similar to how F3-F8 and Depsang were, a few years ago. If in a few years, one side builds a strong presence (China is already doing it, we are doing at a slow place), then they will hold that land with force.
That is the dynamics of LAC.

No point of us crying on "territory loss", when we don't even have access to that territory at the first place.

 

[Super Flanker]

Does anyone know about the deployment of Indian SAMs on the border with the Chinese? (I.e Which systems are deployed, in how many numbers they are deployed, where they're deployed)

We need to deploy more air defense systems on whatever territory we have control and access too on the Chinese border in my opinion and turn it into a "minefield" for any PLA incursions or offensives in near future.

Currently, it appears that they are exceeding our plains speed of 20 kms a day. This is very, very worrying.

The way they are slowly taking away Chunks of our land is definitely a concern to India.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Why can’t we fight a proxy war?

Our leaders don't have few things
B-A-L-L-S
Anyway we can spice up things in Xinjiang but seriously I have knowledge about it but what they have done to us in northeast deserves a good payback

Our intelligence agencies are defensive in nature. They are reactive instead of being proactive.
We also lack money and industrial base to carry out such orations.
Finally look at Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc. Any insurgency eventually bites the country which feeds (supports) them.
We should follow Western model they support insurgency but they never let these insurgencies use their home country as base of operation.

 

[India Super Power]

Our intelligence agencies are defensive in nature. They are reactive instead of being proactive.
We also lack money and industrial base to carry out such orations.
Finally look at Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc. Any insurgency eventually bites the country which feeds (supports) them.
We should follow Western model they support insurgency but they never let these insurgencies use their home country as base of operation.

Bro I am not asking to shelter them here
But atleast fund them monetarily and for weapons just like they did in northeast

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Does anyone know about the deployment of Indian SAMs on the border with the Chinese? (I.e Which systems are deployed, in how many numbers they are deployed, where they're deployed)

We primarily use Akash SAM, QRSAM, SPYDER, we have S-400 cover (but I feel it will be useless against PRC)

We need to deploy more air defense systems on whatever territory we have control and access too on the Chinese border in my opinion and turn it into a "minefield" for any PLA incursions or offensives in near future.

True we need more indigenous systems like Akash SAM, QRSAM, VL-SRSAM. XR-SAM is need of the hour.

The way they are slowly taking away Chunks of our land is definitely a concern to India.

Yes, and currently we seem helpless. We need some definite counter to their salami-slicing strategy.[/QUOTE]

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Bro I am not asking to shelter them here
But atleast fund them monetarily and for weapons just like they did in northeast

True, but our government neither has courage nor political will to execute such operations.

 

[Angel of War]

Does anyone know about the deployment of Indian SAMs on the border with the Chinese? (I.e Which systems are deployed, in how many numbers they are deployed, where they're deployed)

Media reports say Akash and spyder . I have seen a spyder column myself in arunachal.

We need to deploy more air defense systems on whatever territory we have control and access too on the Chinese border in my opinion and turn it into a "minefield" for any PLA incursions or offensives in near future.

Putting minefields is a very bad idea . It will have unimaginable consequences for our own patrol parties. We've done the same mistake by mining LoC , we lost many troops in mine explosions .

The way they are slowly taking away Chunks of our land is definitely a concern to india.

It can be dealt with if we somehow manage to proactively occupy disputed areas or improve accessability to these areas which is being done. Also heavy surveillance is needed , we need LoC level of surveillance along LAC .

 

[Super Flanker]

Media reports say Akash and spyder . I have seen a spyder column myself in arunachal.




Putting minefields is a very bad idea . It will have unimaginable consequences for our own patrol parties. We've done the same mistake by mining LoC , we lost many troops in mine explosions .

It can be dealt with if we somehow manage to proactively occupy disputed areas or improve accessability to these areas which is being done. Also heavy surveillance is needed , we need LoC level of surveillance along LAC .

I didn't mean to say "Minefield". I think so that you got my saying of "Minefield" wrong. I meant to say that on the Border with China, we should deploy lots of SAM Systems (i.e S-400, Akash aid defence system).

Also Systems like QRSAM, VL-SRSAM and XR-SAM should be deployed in large numbers on the border with China. This is what I meant by "Minefield", I meant to say a minefield of Air defense systems (basically ADs nearly everywhere on the border)

With this done, it will prove to be big trouble for any intrusion by Chinese Airforce (PLAAF). If for example in a hypothetical war, PLAAF sends J-20 inside indian Airspace than our air defense systems which are very good close to the border will be able to detect J-20 if J-20 gets close enough (like 20-25 kms).

I hope you remember what happened to an F-117 nighthawk over the skies of Yugoslavia, an S-125 air defense system had shot down that F-117 because it got very close to it.

"See how an old ADs like S-125 shot down an F-117 nighthawk?"

Because it got very close to the S-125 and hence got detected and shot down in the end. Same we can do for J-20, I don't know much about the Stealth characteristics of J-20 but I will say that at like 20-25+ kms, it will get tracked by our Radars and we will be able to successfully lock onto it and fire a missile on it and Destroy it. But we will also have to be careful because if in a full-scale war ,Chinese try to send J-20s than in my opinion they would be sending them to conduct SEAD missions against us and also to possibly Shoot down our Jets. If China sends 4th generation fighters like J-11, J-16, J-10 etc than this network of ADs will prove to be a very big problem for the Chinese.

For this, we will have to Formulate tactics so as to try and hide our ADs from Enemy planes (not completely hide but reduce detection)

 

[Super Flanker]

We primarily use Akash SAM, QRSAM, SPYDER, we have S-400 cover (but I feel it will be useless against PRC)

True we need more indigenous systems like Akash SAM, QRSAM, VL-SRSAM. XR-SAM is need of the hour.

Yes, and currently we seem helpless. We need some definite counter to their salami-slicing strategy.

Imagine such a huge cover of AD's like Akash SAM, QRSAM, SPYDER, VL-SRSAM, XR-SAM etc.

Also we should include MANPADS in the list as well as our troops will definitely use them against Chinese jets which are flying at low altitude inside Indian Airspace in a full-blown war.

With all these air defense systems, MANPADS etc, it will become a huge headache for Chinese jets like J-10, J-11, J-16, SU-35 which are 4th gen jets and have a Higher RCS as compared to 5th generation jets like J-20. The moment these type of planes enter our Airspace, our air defense system radars will quickly detect, track and shoot them down. We will face losses as well but we will definitely knock out quite a bit of Chinese planes.

This is what we need to do, we need to improve our Air defense systems more! This is the need of the hour.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Imagine such a huge cover of AD's like Akash SAM, QRSAM, SPYDER, VL-SRSAM, XR-SAM etc.

Also we should include MANPADS in the list as well as our troops will definitely use them against Chinese jets which are flying at low altitude inside Indian Airspace in a full-blown war.

With all these air defense systems, MANPADS etc, it will become a huge headache for Chinese jets like J-10, J-11, J-16, SU-35 which are 4th gen jets and have a Higher RCS as compared to 5th generation jets like J-20. The moment these type of planes enter our Airspace, our air defense system radars will quickly detect, track and shoot them down. We will face losses as well but we will definitely knock out quite a bit of Chinese planes.

This is what we need to do, we need to improve our Air defense systems more! This is the need of the hour.

Same is true for our AF trying to enter Chinese airspace.
But with advent and mass proliferation of long-range stand-off SEAD, DEAD and ASM weaponry one can easily neutralize enemy AD.
Inducting Tejas, AMCA is need for an hour for India.

 

[Blademaster]

Imagine such a huge cover of AD's like Akash SAM, QRSAM, SPYDER, VL-SRSAM, XR-SAM etc.

Also we should include MANPADS in the list as well as our troops will definitely use them against Chinese jets which are flying at low altitude inside Indian Airspace in a full-blown war.

With all these air defense systems, MANPADS etc, it will become a huge headache for Chinese jets like J-10, J-11, J-16, SU-35 which are 4th gen jets and have a Higher RCS as compared to 5th generation jets like J-20. The moment these type of planes enter our Airspace, our air defense system radars will quickly detect, track and shoot them down. We will face losses as well but we will definitely knock out quite a bit of Chinese planes.

This is what we need to do, we need to improve our Air defense systems more! This is the need of the hour.

We also need a way to tackle these drones. In the beginning, the drones were effective but as the Russians learned that they need to kill the drones and maintain air superiority to avoid large casualties, India needs to do the same and invest in massive R&D for anti drone defenses. Drones give an enemy force a way to target your artillery and your command posts at a cheap price.

 

[The Shrike]

Paywalled article but interesting detail on the 2014 Chumar incident.

Lt. Gen. D.S. Hooda interview | ‘LAC crisis has been a wake-up call in how we deal with China’

India must continue to insist on restoring the status quo ante, while dealing with what has been a clear change in China’s behaviour since President Xi Jinping took office in 2013, says Lt. Gen. D.S. Hooda (retd.)

www.thehindu.com

 

[Super Flanker]

We also need a way to tackle these drones. In the beginning, the drones were effective but as the Russians learned that they need to kill the drones and maintain air superiority to avoid large casualties, India needs to do the same and invest in massive R&D for anti drone defenses. Drones give an enemy force a way to target your artillery and your command posts at a cheap price.

What about MANPADS? We can use Cheap MANPADS and also Anti-aircraft guns against any type of drones which might try and attack our assets.

Please make a list of all drones used by Chinese Armed forces (PLA/PLAAF). Thank you in advance.