India-China Border conflict

[indiatester]

I read somewhere that China has occupied around 1000 sqkm of Indian territory since 2020. Which is why MEA has made it clear that our PM will never be in same room with Chinese PM.

Can anyone confirm the news about 1000 sqkm getting occupied by China since 2020 ??

1000 sqkm is enough to trigger meltdown this weekend.

Yes confirmed. Kerala is completely occupied.

 

[Maveli]

Can confirm it is fake news.

Also can advise you to change your news source. You might be accidentally consuming leftist propaganda harmful for your worldview.

He is probably referring to the areas of Depsang where we used to patrol versus current entrenched position. I think it is probably more than 1000 km^2.

 

[cereal killer]

He is probably referring to the areas of Depsang where we used to patrol versus current entrenched position. I think it is probably more than 1000 km^2.

Do we still have access till Karakoram pass?? It was the supposed natural boundary between SSN & Xinjiang.

 

[cereal killer]

The 1962 war was between ill equipped 10,000-20,000 Indian troops and war hardened ( korean war) 80,000 Chinese troops ... May be india dint expect china to attack ...

India-China War of 1962: How it started and what happened later - Education Today News (indiatoday.in)

Also Indian army didn't lose Aksai Chin. China had already occupied Aksai Chin prior to 1962 war. There was no battle fought in the region. Battles happened in Eastern Ladakh & China still had to retreat from several areas.

 

[Maveli]

Do we still have access till Karakoram pass?? It was the supposed natural boundary between SSN & Xinjiang.

To the best of my knowledge, yes. My geographical knowledge of the area is weak, but I believe DBO sits right at the base of the Karakoram pass. Anyone please correct me otherwise.

Of course the issue is that our access to DBO could be threatened at any time, hence the deployment all along DBO road and elsewhere.

 

[Hiranyaksha]

I read somewhere that China has occupied around 1000 sqkm of Indian territory since 2020. Which is why MEA has made it clear that our PM will never be in same room with Chinese PM.

Can anyone confirm the news about 1000 sqkm getting occupied by China since 2020 ??

1000 sqkm is enough to trigger meltdown this weekend.

Bharat karnad posted it on his website

'Modi can't be seen in Xi's company'

'The MEA, hopefully, made it clear that the Indian PM can't be seen in Xi Jinping's company when China has, for all intents and purposes, annexed over 1,000 sq kms of Indian territory in eastern Ladakh, and essentially that the Wuhan spirit and the Mamallapuram spirit have turned into vinegar.'

www.rediff.com

And also on rediff


The MEA, hopefully, made it clear that the Indian PM can't be seen in Xi Jinping's company when China has, for all intents and purposes, annexed over 1,000 sq kms of Indian territory in eastern Ladakh, and essentially that the Wuhan spirit and the Mamallapuram spirit have turned into vinegar.'


It seems brazen of Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi to breeze into India after China occupied over 1,000 sq km of Indian territory in Ladakh in 2020.
Just prior to his entry to New Delhi, he did not hesitate to criticise India on Kashmir at the OIC meet.

 

[mokoman]

Bharat karnad posted it on his website

u mean this ?

What Rajnath Left Out: PLA Blocks Access to 900 Sq Km of Indian Territory in Depsang

The scale of Chinese control in this strategically significant corner of Ladakh makes it the largest chunk of territory denied to Indian soldiers in a single swoop since the 1962 war, a fact that warranted inclusion in the defence minister's speech.

thewire.in

IMHO its a bit complicated .

 

[Hiranyaksha]

Bharat karnad posted it on his website

'Modi can't be seen in Xi's company'

'The MEA, hopefully, made it clear that the Indian PM can't be seen in Xi Jinping's company when China has, for all intents and purposes, annexed over 1,000 sq kms of Indian territory in eastern Ladakh, and essentially that the Wuhan spirit and the Mamallapuram spirit have turned into vinegar.'

www.rediff.com

And also on rediff


The MEA, hopefully, made it clear that the Indian PM can't be seen in Xi Jinping's company when China has, for all intents and purposes, annexed over 1,000 sq kms of Indian territory in eastern Ladakh, and essentially that the Wuhan spirit and the Mamallapuram spirit have turned into vinegar.'

Bharat has been quite reliable source . So I trust him.

 

[Hiranyaksha]

u mean this ?

What Rajnath Left Out: PLA Blocks Access to 900 Sq Km of Indian Territory in Depsang

The scale of Chinese control in this strategically significant corner of Ladakh makes it the largest chunk of territory denied to Indian soldiers in a single swoop since the 1962 war, a fact that warranted inclusion in the defence minister's speech.

thewire.in

IMHO its a bit complicated .

How is it complicated ?

 

[mokoman]

How is it complicated ?

it is true , they are blocking our patrols in depsang , we cant patrol a large area .

buts its over a decade old problem tho . there is also a question over where the indian claim line actually is and if we ever patrolled that far . never mind that Chinese build a road across our patrol path in 2011 itself . this is something that predates modi . if anything u can thank UPA .

besides we have a standoff at said location now , chinese havent build any roads or structures there , there isnt a big Chinese presence either . i wouldnt use the 'lose' word for now . but yea it isnt looking good .

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

it is true , they are blocking our patrols in depsang , we cant patrol a large area .

buts its over a decade old problem tho . there is also a question over where the indian claim line actually is and if we ever patrolled that far . never mind that Chinese build a road across our patrol path in 2011 itself . this is something that predates modi . if anything u can thank UPA .

besides we have a standoff at said location now , chinese havent build any roads or structures there , there isnt a big Chinese presence either . i wouldnt use the 'lose' word for now . but yea it isnt looking good .

u sure its a decade old problem? former 3 div commander and former 14 corps commander have stated otherwise.

 

[mist_consecutive]

He is probably referring to the areas of Depsang where we used to patrol versus current entrenched position. I think it is probably more than 1000 km^2.

How is it complicated ?

See, here is how the situation is, in Ladakh.

• China and India both claim a large patch of land.
• We show that since the accession of Kashmir to India, the original boundary of Kashmir reaches Aksai Hind, and other areas east (lost in the 1962 war).
• Chinese show that these claimed areas are actually under the Tibetian empire, so it is rightfully theirs.
• There is no "officially" agreed line that divides Ladakh on the Indian side, and Tibet, on the Chinese side. Both have their own claims.
• These barren, inhospitable lands, completely inaccessible in winter, have no proper connectivity, and foot patrols from both sides come to assert their dominance, once or twice in the summer months.
• Chinese side slowly starts to build metalled roads, bridges, and even military check posts sometimes. It is met with some, but benign resistance occasionally from the Indian side. This is either completely ignored by govt. or brushed aside after some "talks".
  For example, during the 1999 Kargil war (NDA rule), China took the opportunity to build road till finger-4 of Pangong Tso lake.
  During 2002 - 2012 (UPA rule), China occupied, over the period of 4 years, the northern part of Dolam (also known as Doklam) plateau, which is a disputed territory between the India-China-Bhutan trijunction without any resistance from the Indian side.
• Chinese starts to increase its footprint and patrols using these roads. They are now coming in vehicles to patrol, whereas our poor ITBP soldiers are still on foot.
• Now (post-April 2020 situation), since now China has better connectivity and access to the area, they start blocking our patrols from entering the disputed area, using their better connectivity to these lands, and physically stopping our patrols.

So, that is how we lost 10,00000000000 sq. ft. of area.

Was it our land ? I doubt it, we never had access to it.
Was it snatched from us ? Nope, we just failed to make our presence.
Whose mistake is it ? Previous govts., including the current one from criminally ignoring the development of border areas.
Should we try to take it back (forcefully) ? Only if we are ready for a war with China. Quid-pro-quo situations like North and South Pangong Tso are a better option.

 

[Hiranyaksha]

it is true , they are blocking our patrols in depsang , we cant patrol a large area .

buts its over a decade old problem tho . there is also a question over where the indian claim line actually is and if we ever patrolled that far . never mind that Chinese build a road across our patrol path in 2011 itself . this is something that predates modi . if anything u can thank UPA .

besides we have a standoff at said location now , chinese havent build any roads or structures there , there isnt a big Chinese presence either . i wouldnt use the 'lose' word for now . but yea it isnt looking good .

I am not blaming any govt over here. We as a society has a weak economy and I understand it is tough for us to defend against much larger opponent. But if we can't patrol over those areas then , it means to me that we have lost access or control over those areas.

 

[Hiranyaksha]

See, here is how the situation is, in Ladakh.

• China and India both claim a large patch of land.
• We show that since the accession of Kashmir to India, the original boundary of Kashmir reaches Aksai Hind, and other areas east (lost in the 1962 war).
• Chinese show that these claimed areas are actually under the Tibetian empire, so it is rightfully theirs.
• There is no "officially" agreed line that divides Ladakh on the Indian side, and Tibet, on the Chinese side. Both have their own claims.
• These barren, inhospitable lands, completely inaccessible in winter, have no proper connectivity, and foot patrols from both sides come to assert their dominance, once or twice in the summer months.
• Chinese side slowly starts to build metalled roads, bridges, and even military check posts sometimes. It is met with some, but benign resistance occasionally from the Indian side. This is either completely ignored by govt. or brushed aside after some "talks".
  For example, during the 1999 Kargil war (NDA rule), China took the opportunity to build road till finger-4 of Pangong Tso lake.
  During 2002 - 2012 (UPA rule), China occupied, over the period of 4 years, the northern part of Dolam (also known as Doklam) plateau, which is a disputed territory between the India-China-Bhutan trijunction without any resistance from the Indian side.
• Chinese starts to increase its footprint and patrols using these roads. They are now coming in vehicles to patrol, whereas our poor ITBP soldiers are still on foot.
• Now (post-April 2020 situation), since now China has better connectivity and access to the area, they start blocking our patrols from entering the disputed area, using their better connectivity to these lands, and physically stopping our patrols.

So, that is how we lost 10,00000000000 sq. ft. of area.

Was it our land ? I doubt it, we never had access to it.
Was it snatched from us ? Nope, we just failed to make our presence.
Whose mistake is it ? Previous govts., including the current one from criminally ignoring the development of border areas.
Should we try to take it back (forcefully) ? Only if we are ready for a war with China. Quid-pro-quo situations like North and South Pangong Tso are a better option.

Do we claim that area - Yes
Do we had access to those areas before 2020 - Yes
When China started building connectivity to those areas - Before 2011.
Who to blame - Us, Indian administration.
Reason that nothing grow there does not hold ground as that is not how sovereign nation works

Having said that, does US came to our help ? - Nope
Does EU came to our help - Nope

Meaning we are all alone.

So should we care about war in EU - Nope
Should we care about sanctions - as they don't work
Should we care about Russia - Nope

Why are we not engaging with Venezuela or Iran and straight away buying oil from them ?

 

[Rudra7678]

Taiwan also claims Aksai Chin and AP. So not sure what are we trying to achieve by recognizing Taiwan

Thanks for pointing this out. Not only KMT ruled China's ambassador to India but even Tibetans (under the rule of Dalai Lama) made it clear to the Indian government on the eve of Indian independence that they do not recognize certain demarcations of MacMahon line, this includes areas in Himachal and Uttarakhand apart from Aksai Chin/Hind and Tawang tract (presently Arunachal Pradesh), which they claim as theirs. A KMT ruled China and Lama ruled independent Tibet would have the same border disputes with India as we have currently with PRC.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Do we claim that area - Yes
Do we had access to those areas before 2020 - Yes
When China started building connectivity to those areas - Before 2011.
Who to blame - Us, Indian administration.
Reason that nothing grow there does not hold ground as that is not how sovereign nation works

Having said that, does US came to our help ? - Nope
Does EU came to our help - Nope

Meaning we are all alone.

So should we care about war in EU - Nope
Should we care about sanctions - as they don't work
Should we care about Russia - Nope

Why are we not engaging with Venezuela or Iran and straight away buying oil from them ?

Cuz it will drive away allies needlessly.

 

[mokoman]

I am not blaming any govt over here. We as a society has a weak economy and I understand it is tough for us to defend against much larger opponent. But if we can't patrol over those areas then , it means to me that we have lost access or control over those areas.

we are not weak . we do build and assert our territory in AP strongly .

weak country wouldnt block Chinese in doklam . u know back then they were threatening war . sushma swaraj just smiled in parliament and asked the Chinese to chill .

honestly i dont know why we didnt assert strongly in ladakh , my best guess is Chinese are sensitive about eastern ladakh . so we gave in to their demands .

u sure its a decade old problem? former 3 div commander and former 14 corps commander have stated otherwise.

it started when that chinese premier , guy who ran China before Xijinping came to india .

day of his arrival , PLA blocked y junction , about 5 - 10 km ahead of where they are now .

they have been "on off blocking us" since then upto 2020 .

there really is no point to calling the land our territory if we dont build anything on it .

 

[mist_consecutive]

---------------
Meaning we are all alone.

So should we care about war in EU - Nope

Care, as in genuine well-being, nope, but be in positive friendship with them, yes, because we need them (either in getting arms to fight China, getting business, or establishing our power at global scale)

Should we care about sanctions - as they don't work

They work, no matter how much Russia tries to show otherwise. You will see within an year how Russia becomes a bitch of China and falls into North-Korean condition if the sanctions are not lifted.

Why are we not engaging with Venezuela or Iran and straight away buying oil from them ?

Because we need favours from countries who hate them.

 

[Hiranyaksha]

Nobody is our friend. None of these power thought twice before nuclear arming Pakistan. We should focus on our economy no matter whom we piss off. Can they afford to sanction us and make us useless against China ? I guess No.


And we should do best to not to send money to either Russia and China.

 

[another_armchair]

Ya, well caught,

Lixun loveday is back

50 centers are back after we gave a solid GPL to Wang Yi.