The PLA indeed has had troops in for the same period as Indian troops. Wonder why is it so difficult for people to understand that the basic physiology of a human being is same, irrespective whether a Chinese or an Indian?They surely are by now. They have moved a lot of forces into high-altitude Tibetian plateaus to acclimatize them.
Regarding nuclear deterrence, I have mentioned here earlier, countries with nuclear devices understand the implication of nuclear warfare and MAD. Even if a single nuclear missile finds its way over Delhi or Beijing, it will create a catastrophe on an unimaginable scale.
Hence, the use of nuclear power is seen more like a "mutual suicide", whose threshold of use is extremely high, like the loss of a large amount of territory such that it may threaten the existence of the country itself.
For Lakdah / Aksai Chin, neither India nor China will press the mutual suicide button. Because if you think rationally, the loss of Ladakh or Aksai Chin has no large-scale implication on citizens of any of the country (Just ask yourself, is 3/4th of the India / China ready to be vaporized to protect Ladakh/Aksai Chin?).
So if any of the countries can live for tomorrow, it will choose to do so for another chance of fighting back or just existing.
Will never happen, fear of the 10 foot Chinaman has been dogging every GoI since '62 and will only get worse as the years pass by.Until we start grabbing land somewhere else, the Bat Munchers would keep coming at us..
We need to grow a pair and keep salami slicing in areas they dont expect...
I was intrigued by LOC part because it seems hosting more than 60k+ proly more soldiers in such conditions for such a long duration, assuming it will be the new normal then for years, is just not a practical solution, accounting for all the cost measures etc. Anyway, thanks for the insight, as always.
The thing is by strengthening such positions tho they have got some sq km of land but they lost/losing :They get their land grabs even with modi govt in power, only the intensity on land grabs is reduced to some degree.
Perhaps their stunts here may cause a change in the way how GoI deals with the yearly chinese landgrab, or maybe not.
LAC is hot now, next they will appear in the tri-junction that their ghulam Oli and his shabjee-shabjee screeching fellows claim, or Sikkim or Arunachal, AP seems the most promising candidate though for landgrabs, the whole area is mountainous and hard to effectively control/patrol I think.
The chinese are like the rat or lizard that gets in your house, once they are in it is very hard to remove them.
So by when do you expect the build-up on the LAC to recede and go "back to normal" from our side? by March next year possibly?Exactly. Hence, the cost part.
Refer screenshot posted earlier of some time back wherein I had said that PRC has India exactly where it wants India to be - at the negotiations table.
Irrespective of flurry of statements and 'tests', let there be no mistake - at the end of the day, wars/shiny new war toys/rhetoric does not get a party its votes in a democracy; freebies, matching them with those promised by the opposition - does.
When you have 97% population depending on 3% for living, your choices are limited.
To get the military posture you need to actually fight the enemy, you need to make cuts that directly affects this 97%.
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Pardon me, I again could not ascertain what you are exactly trying to say in bold. If my English skills serve me right, you want to say (in simpler words) -2-3 brigades aclaimatized are not going to win them any thing.
On nukes you are missing my point actually you are quite generic with your comments; reason best known to you.
As far a skirmish or battle is kept below artillery threshold which requires elbow grease and men on the ground the Chinese are never going to win; winters, summers or spring notwithstanding. Soon they go above that threshold in a haste to win decisively they have to make a call on failing their nuclear deterrence because India will act preemptively; resultant climbing the escalation ladder to nukes will be the only outcome. Not to mention Russians and Americans will be watching them to lose their nukes with glee.
How does it matter if the whole world hates them?The thing is by strengthening such positions tho they have got some sq km of land but they lost/losing :
1) Biggest market outside china
2) Biggest future market, within the decade we will have a bigger and richer middle class
3) Modi is stressing on decoupling which will eventually benefit India
4) This has shockwave to those who though they could appease batmunchers, now we are focusing more and more on strengthening our forces, modernisation, indigenisation etc. These were moving with a slow pace.
5) Plus, with Corona chan outbreak, and companies looking for alternatives to china, India has good chance to exploit on that.
6) Indo-China relations are into dustbin so there goes any chance of batmunchers profiting off Indians.
7) Again related to corona, we are seeing rise in anti China sentiments all over EU + USA, they are losing their market there too.
Sounds like the worst idea to make an enemy out of 3rd biggest economy, ppp wise, at the time when whole world hates you.
Under scamgrass: It would have been repeat of 2013 and previous incidents with no work regarding 1,2,3,4,5,6....
So this is one thing...
Mao ke pilleChai neese soldiers
simply kill that ba$***d.
The geopolitical ambitions of China are much more than us. So we don't have that kind clout nor enough money to challenge them there.Firstly.
View attachment 62150
Well, I make "educated" guesses after lurking around on Defence Forums (I apparently am so vella that I hop from one forum to another all day around) and am a pretty low paid guyso have to be a bullshit artist (sorry for that)
That is why have posted the screenshots. So that it is amply clear that the path that has been taken was always what was expected & was the prevalent thought at the time. But then, people need confessions from the top man and even if he admits something, he also won't be believed as people will believe what they want to believe at the end of the day.
On topic - Not for the time being; for the time till as such a moment comes where they lose patience and open up a war.
As a Chinese "watcher" (self claimed as my info is purely from DFI & the nukkad chai shop as I apparently know jack) India, as a thrust for PRC, is done with. Apart from the usual nonsense of videos & PR releases tom toming their infrastructure thrust and shiny toys, PRC has moved on from India as a focus, having achieved their objectives of calling out an Indian 'bluff' (in their view) over both Aksai Chin and GB. The deployment and strengthening of infrastructure on their side is more of - dissuasive (in case India decides to actually launch an attack and 'cost imposing' - for India will need to match and surpass, with greater difficulties on our side due to the topography as compared to their side.
Now, instead, they will fuel the internal dissent and politics and tie down the GoI with it. With WB elections coming up and apparent attempt by BJP to place Ganguly as CM candidate (rumor mills have Anurag Thakur likely moving in to BCCI if not for HM's son), there is going to be enough to distract the decision makers internally.
For the Chinese, even the Taiwan issue is a feint, they are consolidating their 'hold' in two key areas (as per them):
1. Africa - irrespective of reports that do crop up over Chinese loans projecting them in a bad picture, the truth remains that majority of the nations are too poor and have rather despotic regimes in power. These regimes need a mix of weapons (Chinese provide at low cost, lower than any other producer) & soft 'loans' easily accessible to show development, to continue their tenuous hold over power.
2. Eastern Europe and troubled economies of Southern Europe viz Greece, Italy. These are their access to the EEZ and the indirect access to technology that would otherwise take them lot of investment to perfect on their own - even today, Additionally, the little bit of 'influence' these countries bring into the European Union on behalf of PRC, is the added benefit.
Territory:-They do not need to fight. Please get that fact clear.
We have ended up giving up territory, whether one wants to acknowledge the fact or not.
It is, for men they don't care, deaths can be easily covered up, for yuan and economy the amount they spend on salami slicing is peanuts compared to to their US rivalling defense budget.Territory:-
1) Patrolling access, F4 to F8
2) Patrolling access, Y Junction & PPs beyond
We never showed any haste in confronting the Chinese at the tactical level when the buildup in these areas were going on. Maybe the expectation was that the troops would return to their bases or MEA could solve the issue. So clearly we failed at reading the Chinese intent.
In turn, readjustment done to 39 dominating heights albeit on our own territory.
So what i want to ask is that is it worth to the Chinese in terms of man, material, yuan, economic decoupling, quad etc. just for calling India's "bluff"on POK, GB, Aksai Hind when the claim position on the these remains the same. HM just answered a question that was posed to him in Parliament & the answer was in line with our stated position all these years.
GB plan is not a bluff it will happen soon porkis will themselves give us chance. Due to covid it was not going to happen so what bluff did they called out?Firstly.
View attachment 62150
Well, I make "educated" guesses after lurking around on Defence Forums (I apparently am so vella that I hop from one forum to another all day around) and am a pretty low paid guyso have to be a bullshit artist (sorry for that)
That is why have posted the screenshots. So that it is amply clear that the path that has been taken was always what was expected & was the prevalent thought at the time. But then, people need confessions from the top man and even if he admits something, he also won't be believed as people will believe what they want to believe at the end of the day.
On topic - Not for the time being; for the time till as such a moment comes where they lose patience and open up a war.
As a Chinese "watcher" (self claimed as my info is purely from DFI & the nukkad chai shop as I apparently know jack) India, as a thrust for PRC, is done with. Apart from the usual nonsense of videos & PR releases tom toming their infrastructure thrust and shiny toys, PRC has moved on from India as a focus, having achieved their objectives of calling out an Indian 'bluff' (in their view) over both Aksai Chin and GB. The deployment and strengthening of infrastructure on their side is more of - dissuasive (in case India decides to actually launch an attack and 'cost imposing' - for India will need to match and surpass, with greater difficulties on our side due to the topography as compared to their side.
Now, instead, they will fuel the internal dissent and politics and tie down the GoI with it. With WB elections coming up and apparent attempt by BJP to place Ganguly as CM candidate (rumor mills have Anurag Thakur likely moving in to BCCI if not for HM's son), there is going to be enough to distract the decision makers internally.
For the Chinese, even the Taiwan issue is a feint, they are consolidating their 'hold' in two key areas (as per them):
1. Africa - irrespective of reports that do crop up over Chinese loans projecting them in a bad picture, the truth remains that majority of the nations are too poor and have rather despotic regimes in power. These regimes need a mix of weapons (Chinese provide at low cost, lower than any other producer) & soft 'loans' easily accessible to show development, to continue their tenuous hold over power.
2. Eastern Europe and troubled economies of Southern Europe viz Greece, Italy. These are their access to the EEZ and the indirect access to technology that would otherwise take them lot of investment to perfect on their own - even today, Additionally, the little bit of 'influence' these countries bring into the European Union on behalf of PRC, is the added benefit.
While I agree for most parts with @Hellfire this guy starts taking a complete different track when there is no action along the border, after the capture of strategic heights I remember him talking about a " very likely chinese counter attack, and about preparations being made in the chinese side" I remember him tweeting about how the government is preparing a military plan without any political constraints and complete backing.GB plan is not a bluff it will happen soon porkis will themselves give us chance. Due to covid it was not going to happen so what bluff did they called out?
Chinese live in their own la la land the loss they got is more than the advantages .
And all members start meltdown lol.While I agree for most parts with @Hellfire this guy starts taking a complete different track when there is no action along the border, after the capture of strategic heights I remember him talking about a " very likely chinese counter attack, and about preparations being made in the chinese side" I remember him tweeting about how the government is preparing a military plan without any political constraints and complete backing.
And when everything is silent he talks as if we have been defeated completely and that we have no hopes of doing anything.
Just a few observations lol.
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