India-China 2020 Border conflict

[nick_indian]

The concept of human rights existed in several civilizations of antiquity. As man progressed from a nomadic to a pastoral life and societies began to develop the concept of human rights too became more complex and codified.

The ancient Sumerians, Egyptians, Vedic and Buddhist polities of India all had some form of protection for the common man. In fact most of the religions(Abrahamic or Dharmic) had mantras, shlokas, preaching, commandments to promote and protect the right of its adherents. In Ramayana the triumph of good against evil is nothing but a reaffirmation of the rights of a law abiding citizen of Ram rajya.

As for the human rights in a codified or written form, the Babylonians and Sumerians were the first civilizations to do so in the form of tabulated laws as per recorded history.(Google code of Hammurabi .IVC may also have done it but its script is not yet deciphered) Also ancient Greek city states too developed a system of laws and rights and they had influential philosophers who greatly propagated the concept of rights for each man, strong or weak. The Romans took on most of these ideas from the Greeks and developed most of their laws around them.

Coming to Magna Carta it was not as big a deal as most Anglophiles make it out to be. The Magna Carta was created as a result of the Baron`s War. The French Normans had conquered and subjugated the native Anglo Saxons and disregarded the rights of the native Anglo Saxon populace. The king reigned supreme and ruled with absolute impunity and even curtailed the rights of his Dukes and Barons. So when the lower nobility rebelled against the king they implemented certain number of safeguards for them. It did not make England a country where a peasant/serf was equal to the king. It did give certain rights to the peasantry but most of the safeguards were for the Barons. True human rights was only promoted after the English civil war and execution of their king under Oliver Cromwell. Even then there was an ossified class system in England.

It was the American and French revolution that actually brought about the modern concept of human rights where even a pauper is equal to the richest man of the land. The American constitution, the French Declaration of Rights of Man and the Napoleonic Code were the flag bearers for the rights of man. Most of the rights were inspired from the works of philosophers l Rousseau, Locke and Voltaire. Even in India where we follow the English system of law(common law as opposed to civil law) the Constitution owes much to the Americans and French. The Magna Carta is hyped up simply because it was the first codified document of the common law. However the Magna Carta pales in comparison to both the American and French concept of human rights.

Agree with you overall but the significance of Magna Carta is because it was, as you mentioned, the first relatively complex codified document of common law. It is given lot of significance from a historical perspective in legal communities for this reason in common law countries. Also, that it came out in the early 1200s which is more than 5 centuries before the modern legal philosophers like Locke and Rousseau propounded their theories. French Revolution was also an event of the 18th century.

 

[johnq]

IA ammunition lying in Russian warehouses, waiting to be picked up since Feb 2020. What's going on.....have we overstocked???

Amid face-off with China, Army ammo worth $190 mn languishes in Russia

Even as the Indian Army faces the prospect of armed hostilities with China’s military, eleven batches of urgently needed Russian ammunition, contracted by the Indian Army for over US $190 million, have been lying in warehouses in Russia since February, awaiting shipment to India. Indian...

www.defencenews.in

It's always the ministry bureaucrats that screw India: MOD, MEA . . . Anything to do with protecting India should be directly controlled by military leadership.

 

[Dessert Storm]

It's always the ministry bureaucrats that screw India: MOD, MEA . . . Anything to do with protecting India should be directly controlled by military leadership.

Not really..... should be a joint effort of Indian Forces, Home Ministry, MEA, NSA.

 

[Dessert Storm]

Video series on importance of various areas in Ladakh.
Part-1 : Chushul
Part-2 : DBO

 

[Poseidon]

Is this in reference to India vs China?

 

[SimplyIndian]

Trump ain't losing

cant be sure. Big money at play from both side.

 

[shade]

No one gets away backstabbing modi. Modi was the one way before as pm who toured China as cm of Gujarat for his state growth. He doesn't spare back stabbing. It's closed for cyna once and for all.

This is not backstabbing, this is offering a venomous cobra snake sweet milk coconut water in the *hopes* that it will not bite you.
But it does and then says "XIXIXIXXIXI STUPID YINDO, I WAS A SNAKE ANYWAY ".

It's ok, a learning experience for Modiji, perhaps the babus had deluded him with the thinking that you can reason with China.
Hopefully he purges the babus in question after this, babus are supposed to be like modern day advisors of the King, and I doubt the King has ever taken kindly to advisors giving him shitty information and advice.

 

[Dessert Storm]

cant be sure. Big money at play from both side.

I understand what you mean. But he ain't losing.

 

[mist_consecutive]

Is this in reference to India vs China?

This was especially true for -

• 1971-War and birth of Bangladesh, rather make a new Muslim majority country, integrate Bangladesh inside India.
• When Pakistan was testing nuclear weapon technology in the 1990s, even Israel offered to help us overtly
• 1987-1990s LTTE uprising, and use it to integrate Sri Lanka as an Indian state (RAW was already training LTTE cadres)
• During the 1999-Kargil conflict, we had both opportunity and reason, plus technological superiority (in both Navy & Air Force)
• Again during the 2001 - Parliament attack, we had a solid reason. Also technological superiority.

Only if our previous govt. spent more time on strategic desks and less on suckling upon phalluses of traitorous neighbors.

But this is also the same situation for China. India is weakest at this point (biggest technological & manufacturing parity + COVID situation).
If China is wise, it should attack now, in fact in this winter after the snow has settled on the roads and passes (Dec - Jan timeline), then try to conclude a decisive victory before late-March (when snow will start to melt).

After this, China will seldom get such a golden an opportunity, with quad-alliance forming, Japan slowing getting back to its imperial glory days seeing the fangs of China, India waking from slumber and increasing defence expenditure and border infrastructure, and other small neighbours standing up to Chinese bully.

 

[cereal killer]

There is more thing to what meets our eyes.

Background me bahut kuch chal raha hai. Itne missile tests karne par abhi tak humare piche western media pad jana tha. Us congress would had slapped or asked to sanction us. Nothing sort of happening. There is a gang bang plan. Wait and watch. Over all picture is somewhere else. GT commenting on every india event is like " hum keh rahe kuch nahi hoga. Par fatti bhi utni hi padi hai chunniyo ki".

Yep let's see how long this temporary peace lasts. Maybe after Winter something is surely on cards.. XI has a big address is coming up in CCP's conference next year October Where he has to showcase his achievements. Covid has damaged China's reputation badly so he has to manage internal politics somehow.

 

[fire starter]

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

Yep let's see how long this temporary peace lasts. Maybe after Winter something is surely on cards.. XI has a big address is coming up in CCP's conference next year October Where he has to showcase his achievements. Covid has damaged China's reputation badly so he has to manage internal politics somehow.

It must not last for too long.

 

[hit&run]

This was especially true for -

• 1971-War and birth of Bangladesh, rather make a new Muslim majority country, integrate Bangladesh inside India.
• When Pakistan was testing nuclear weapon technology in the 1990s, even Israel offered to help us overtly
• 1987-1990s LTTE uprising, and use it to integrate Sri Lanka as an Indian state (RAW was already training LTTE cadres)
• During the 1999-Kargil conflict, we had both opportunity and reason, plus technological superiority (in both Navy & Air Force)
• Again during the 2001 - Parliament attack, we had a solid reason. Also technological superiority.

Only if our previous govt. spent more time on strategic desks and less on suckling upon phalluses of traitorous neighbors.

But this is also the same situation for China. India is weakest at this point (biggest technological & manufacturing parity + COVID situation).
If China is wise, it should attack now, in fact in this winter after the snow has settled on the roads and passes (Dec - Jan timeline), then try to conclude a decisive victory before late-March (when snow will start to melt).

After this, China will seldom get such a golden an opportunity, with quad-alliance forming, Japan slowing getting back to its imperial glory days seeing the fangs of China, India waking from slumber and increasing defence expenditure and border infrastructure, and other small neighbours standing up to Chinese bully.

Chinese are not acclimatize. It took them 2-3 years to prepare 1962. The bastards blamed Nehru for his forward policy when he only reacted to their transgressions. They even used the Indian port Calcutta to build up their stocks. The low self-esteem Indians fell for Chinese propaganda till only recently Indians debunked it.

As far as the Chinese attacking in a haste with overwhelming rocket and conventional BM attack is the concern then they have to make a call on failing their own nuclear deterrence. Because then there will be no switch to stop India climbing the escalation ladder in preemption.

 

[BlackViking]

 

[shade]

China looked at India under British rule as a teacher — of what not to be

India was regarded by the Chinese as a warning — as a failed and fallen country, which had been enslaved by colonial rulers virtually without resistance.

theprint.in

TLDR;
Ching Chong aristocrats and intellectuals and later CCP politicians have viewed India as a weak nation of slaves for 200 years easily.

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

Chinese are not acclimatize. It took them 2-3 years to prepare 1962. The bastards blamed Nehru for his forward policy when he only reacted to their transgressions. They even used the Indian port Calcutta to build up their stocks. The low self-esteem Indians fell for Chinese propaganda till only recently Indians debunked it.

As far as the Chinese attacking in a haste with overwhelming rocket and conventional BM attack is the concern then they have to make a call on failing their own nuclear deterrence. Because then there will be no switch to stop India climbing the escalation ladder in preemption.

Nehrus forward policy was flawed because it was tactically disadvantageous for our armies .
As I have read some where else .
That IA ran low on everything except morale.

 

[SimplyIndian]

This was especially true for -

• 1971-War and birth of Bangladesh, rather make a new Muslim majority country, integrate Bangladesh inside India.
• When Pakistan was testing nuclear weapon technology in the 1990s, even Israel offered to help us overtly
• 1987-1990s LTTE uprising, and use it to integrate Sri Lanka as an Indian state (RAW was already training LTTE cadres)
• During the 1999-Kargil conflict, we had both opportunity and reason, plus technological superiority (in both Navy & Air Force)
• Again during the 2001 - Parliament attack, we had a solid reason. Also technological superiority.

Only if our previous govt. spent more time on strategic desks and less on suckling upon phalluses of traitorous neighbors.

But this is also the same situation for China. India is weakest at this point (biggest technological & manufacturing parity + COVID situation).
If China is wise, it should attack now, in fact in this winter after the snow has settled on the roads and passes (Dec - Jan timeline), then try to conclude a decisive victory before late-March (when snow will start to melt).

After this, China will seldom get such a golden an opportunity, with quad-alliance forming, Japan slowing getting back to its imperial glory days seeing the fangs of China, India waking from slumber and increasing defence expenditure and border infrastructure, and other small neighbours standing up to Chinese bully.

China believes in propaganda. They have intent of grabbing land but without fight. They will not fight well prepared enemy. IMHO.

 

[mist_consecutive]

Chinese are not acclimatize. It took them 2-3 years to prepare 1962. The bastards blamed Nehru for his forward policy when he only reacted to their transgressions. They even used the Indian port Calcutta to build up their stocks. The low self-esteem Indians fell for Chinese propaganda till only recently Indians debunked it.

As far as the Chinese attacking in a haste with overwhelming rocket and conventional BM attack is the concern then they have to make a call on failing their own nuclear deterrence. Because then there will be no switch to stop India climbing the escalation ladder in preemption.

They surely are by now. They have moved a lot of forces into high-altitude Tibetian plateaus to acclimatize them.
Preparation-wise, they sure might have miscalculated the might of the mountains initially and got the brunt of it when they tried to challenge the mother nature. But as they are spending more and more time in forwarding areas, they will learn the way of the mountains, I am afraid.

Regarding nuclear deterrence, I have mentioned here earlier, countries with nuclear devices understand the implication of nuclear warfare and MAD. Even if a single nuclear missile finds its way over Delhi or Beijing, it will create a catastrophe on an unimaginable scale.
Hence, the use of nuclear power is seen more like a "mutual suicide", whose threshold of use is extremely high, like the loss of a large amount of territory such that it may threaten the existence of the country itself.

For Lakdah / Aksai Chin, neither India nor China will press the mutual suicide button. Because if you think rationally, the loss of Ladakh or Aksai Chin has no large-scale implication on citizens of any of the country (Just ask yourself, is 3/4th of the India / China ready to be vaporized to protect Ladakh/Aksai Chin?).

So if any of the countries can live for tomorrow, it will choose to do so for another chance of fighting back or just existing.

 

[shade]

btw kuch nahi hoga, the ching chongs only prefer war if it is swift and decisive, like say grabbing Taiwan for example.
They will do nothing now and when everything goes back to "normal" i.e Yindos are complacent again, by 2021 or 2022 they will again appear someplace else for salami slicing.
In a sense with the build up at the LAC their move of salami slicing for this year back fired badly on them.

 

[hit&run]

Nehrus forward policy was flawed because it was tactically disadvantageous for our armies .
As I have read some where else .
That IA ran low on everything except morale.

I am not going to delebrate on Nehru and his mistakes. But I will hit on few other notes to make a point on current politics. Nehru was a delusional person who fell victim of his own intelligence and overestimated his geopolitical clout. Even today Congress-I is full of these over educated, over articulate people, running around spitting on grass root BJP leaders and ordinary Indians called as Cattle Class.

That wife murderer Tharoor, Mani Shankar Aiyer, Jai Ram Ramesh have cultish following and are revered by people like Chetan Bhagat (just an example) who thinks they are better fit for high offices and can solve all the problems including China.

Just yesterday delusional Nehru’s delusional great-grandson Rahul Gandhi made a comment that his government would have thrown the PLA in 15 minutes.

Nehru made similar kind of statements including forward policy when he was only reacting as Chinese were already entrenched and China used those statements to unleash propaganda backed by Indian communists.

Why grass-root leader Modi is quite and none of his minister are uttering a word and how successfully he is getting under Chinese skin should make sense to all the doubters.
This is a game only for headstrong leader who thinks straight and delivers. Modi is moving on strong footing and dealing with China systematically. Nehru was all Shot and no powder.