India-China 2020 Border conflict

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mist_consecutive

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Well if India can say "koi nhi ghussa hai, sb changa si", while having the world's largest standing military force, after getting officers and jawans killed in a cold-blooded ambush, then what is stopping Bhutan from saying "There has been no incursion", when they are minuscule compared to China and having a negligible military?
 

johnq

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We say bombers are cold war era concept, if it is so then why are Russia, USA, China and others investing heavily into Bombers? They are deadly great deterrents.

our military is mostly defensive, we should have an expeditionary Armed Forces, APJ Abdul Kalam sir said that there is no place for fear in this world, only strength respects strength.

French CATOBAR carrier has less displacement than our INS Vikramaditya but carries 10 more aircraft than our INS Vicky. We should go for 2 small flat deck carriers instead of a big one.

I mean it irritates me seeing chinks laughing on us because we indians are getting happy listening to disengagement but then reports come that chinks aren’t retreating. We are fooling ourselves but truth is that we are losing without a fight, chink propaganda is working everywhere from Galwan valley clash to microwave weapons use. Why aren’t we doing such things? We captured black top which is Indian territory which we lost to china and we reclaimed it. China is holding 38,000 sq km of Aksai china and we keep chanting it is Indian territory... it is Indian territory... but we don’t take it back nor we are able to take back PoK from tine PorkShitstan🇵🇰.

then what is our military for? We brag we are going to be a superpower, chinks are afraid of us, we brag of being 4th strongest country but the fact is that we are useless. Israeli military is nowhere near to the Indian military size yet they use their military to fullest potential, they make their x amount of weapons give impact of 2x amount of weapons to the enemy. Our defence budget is in stupid integers and our indigenous platforms are also mostly shit whatever we brag...

Arjun is over weight and we can’t reduce its weight, Arjun should’ve been in 1500+ numbers but its not, Arjun MK1A is infact heavier than the MK1 at 67 tonnes and Army is not at all interested in it.

Our Tejas production rate is shit
Our warships are underarmed
Our LCH lacks a fire control radar like LongBow of Apache
Our Rustom-II is in developments for decades
Our Aircraft carriers are STOBAR, can’t use their full potential
Our Tanks are heavy

And Armed forces is not focussing on number expansion, we are busy in modernisation not expanding the numbers.

And it requires money but after a -23.9% contraction... our GDP from 3.3 Trillion Dollars became 2.6 Trillion dollars because of poor lockdown by chaukidaar.

the weapons we buy are political purchases like AK-203 which is a shit piece rifle for Infantry as it is a SF category weapon And is going to become standard issue.

we delay procurement a lot and we are unable to finalise deals on time...
Chinki economy is still increasing despite the rhetoric of us that FoReIgN cOmPaNiEs aRe CoMiNg To InDiA but still their economy is booming.

Our modern platforms are having long awaited upgrades which is getting delayed.
We are losers, no doubt on that.

We tolerated giving away of Pakistan, Bangladesh and Burma from India as separate countries but even after giving away these countries, Pakistan and China still capture our land and we are still silent. We are so poor that we can’t even retire our MiG-21s🤬.

Thats why we should have gone for F-16 India production and purchased huge numbers of such aircraft.

We could have made 7-8 ships of each class but we go to redesigning after 3-4 ships of every class.

Our Mechanised Forces are all obsolete, even our T-90 tanks await upgrades, we are still using BMP-2s and modernisation will take decades and fleet expansion is just a dream, USA spends 3.4% of GDP on defence. But China spends just 1.8886% of their GDP on defence and still we are spending 2.4% and achieving nothing. China was and is cleaver spends more of her GDP on development and economic growth as growing economy will increase defence budget automatically hence they spend small portion of their GDP on defence.

We spend a lot on defence nothing on development. We need an agriculture, Indiastrial, and IT revolution. else India will be cease to exist because Pakistan is breathing her last, and pakistan will try fully to disturb us in the valley so that it helps the chinks.
Boss, even with our limitations we have a far better military than China. But China is really good at scaring our leaders and decision-makers through their propaganda machine. That is 5th generation warfare: The art of winning without fighting.
Nobody will take a risk starting a war with China if Chinese propaganda has convinced them that China is unbeatable.
 

Knowitall

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Well if India can say "koi nhi ghussa hai, sb changa si", while having the world's largest standing military force, after getting officers and jawans killed in a cold-blooded ambush, then what is stopping Bhutan from saying "There has been no incursion", when they are minuscule compared to China and having a negligible military?
This is what im saying people expecting bhutan to make a statment or saying they don't have a spine need to reflect on themselves.

For bhutan this is the matter of the very survival of their country.

If they make a lot of noise they might just lose their whole country to china.

We must try to understand the situation from their perspective.
 

FalconSlayers

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Boss, even with our limitations we have a far better military than China. But China is really good at scaring our leaders and decision-makers through their propaganda machine. That is 5th generation warfare: The art of winning without fighting.
Nobody will take a risk starting a war with China if Chinese propaganda has convinced them that China is unbeatable.
Its just a myth that our weapons are good or that, they do have numbers and good aircraft. If their weapons are shit and they can’t fight us then why are we tolersting those bastards?

20 Soldiers got martyred in Galwan and another 3 were martyred in accidents in Ladakh.
 

FalconZero

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Well if India can say "koi nhi ghussa hai, sb changa si", while having the world's largest standing military force, after getting officers and jawans killed in a cold-blooded ambush, then what is stopping Bhutan from saying "There has been no incursion", when they are minuscule compared to China and having a negligible military?
This is what im saying people expecting bhutan to make a statment or saying they don't have a spine need to reflect on themselves.

For bhutan this is the matter of the very survival of their country.

If they make a lot of noise they might just lose their whole country to china.

We must try to understand the situation from their perspective.
Okay i think we are seriously going in wrong direction here:
1) Case one : Galwan issue
Why people forget that a cost was imposed on Chinese for their g*ndmasti and they eventually went back.
Right now there are at least 30k+ to 40k soldiers at ladakh region trying to prevent any further escalation from China, we preempted china at the southern bank. Why everyone is pretending that deal has been signed? Where does it say that we are ceding the area? Only appeasement is visible in not going full berserk for that we have both pros and cons which require another set of debate. I think it's fine that we at one side have restricted Chinese from further escalation and otoh trying a peaceful resolution.

2) Equating appeasement of India with Bhutan : A false equivalence
India has 1.6million+ troops which are ready to protect its border, already have 40k+ stationed in ladakh, how many bhutan has? So their easiest route is to stay mum say nothing, in short term it will work, but china won't stop not that bhutan can stop them, china will cover its claim lines, unless bhutan cuts a deal with India....I still think that even in these situations we will not think twice before sending troops in the aid of Bhutan but in the past even during Galwan we saw Bhutan felt uneasy.....so it's more like that they want to keep appeasing / feeding china hoping it won't bite them back, they are wrong in this case. Now to an extent, I think we are doing the same bt only difference is we can impose cost if needed, so we have a choice. In long term Bhutan's best bet would be to become part of India with special status like Sikkim.
In medium - long term India's best interest is to align with USA for now, which we are doing already.

That being said, all of us here are assuming one thing or the other, like @ezsasa said, i think it would be better to wait for things to get a bit more clear, we are getting uneasy necessarily here.
 

johnq

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Its just a myth that our weapons are good or that, they do have numbers and good aircraft. If their weapons are shit and they can’t fight us then why are we tolersting those bastards?

20 Soldiers got martyred in Galwan and another 3 were martyred in accidents in Ladakh.
I saw a recent interview with a China expert who talked about these things. What he said is that Chinese government is willing to sacrifice its soldiers in very large numbers to gain its objectives. So even if their training is crap and their technology outdated, their government doesn't have to worry about political consequences if several thousand PLA soldiers "go missing." Meanwhile we have Kangress breathing down the neck of Modi and BJP over 20 casualties. Would the people of India put up with thousands of casualties?
 

NAMICA

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We say bombers are cold war era concept, if it is so then why are Russia, USA, China and others investing heavily into Bombers? They are deadly great deterrents.

our military is mostly defensive, we should have an expeditionary Armed Forces, APJ Abdul Kalam sir said that there is no place for fear in this world, only strength respects strength.

French CATOBAR carrier has less displacement than our INS Vikramaditya but carries 10 more aircraft than our INS Vicky. We should go for 2 small flat deck carriers instead of a big one.

I mean it irritates me seeing chinks laughing on us because we indians are getting happy listening to disengagement but then reports come that chinks aren’t retreating. We are fooling ourselves but truth is that we are losing without a fight, chink propaganda is working everywhere from Galwan valley clash to microwave weapons use. Why aren’t we doing such things? We captured black top which is Indian territory which we lost to china and we reclaimed it. China is holding 38,000 sq km of Aksai china and we keep chanting it is Indian territory... it is Indian territory... but we don’t take it back nor we are able to take back PoK from tine PorkShitstan🇵🇰.

then what is our military for? We brag we are going to be a superpower, chinks are afraid of us, we brag of being 4th strongest country but the fact is that we are useless. Israeli military is nowhere near to the Indian military size yet they use their military to fullest potential, they make their x amount of weapons give impact of 2x amount of weapons to the enemy. Our defence budget is in stupid integers and our indigenous platforms are also mostly shit whatever we brag...

Arjun is over weight and we can’t reduce its weight, Arjun should’ve been in 1500+ numbers but its not, Arjun MK1A is infact heavier than the MK1 at 67 tonnes and Army is not at all interested in it.

Our Tejas production rate is shit
Our warships are underarmed
Our LCH lacks a fire control radar like LongBow of Apache
Our Rustom-II is in developments for decades
Our Aircraft carriers are STOBAR, can’t use their full potential
Our Tanks are heavy

And Armed forces is not focussing on number expansion, we are busy in modernisation not expanding the numbers.

And it requires money but after a -23.9% contraction... our GDP from 3.3 Trillion Dollars became 2.6 Trillion dollars because of poor lockdown by chaukidaar.

the weapons we buy are political purchases like AK-203 which is a shit piece rifle for Infantry as it is a SF category weapon And is going to become standard issue.

we delay procurement a lot and we are unable to finalise deals on time...
Chinki economy is still increasing despite the rhetoric of us that FoReIgN cOmPaNiEs aRe CoMiNg To InDiA but still their economy is booming.

Our modern platforms are having long awaited upgrades which is getting delayed.
We are losers, no doubt on that.

We tolerated giving away of Pakistan, Bangladesh and Burma from India as separate countries but even after giving away these countries, Pakistan and China still capture our land and we are still silent. We are so poor that we can’t even retire our MiG-21s🤬.

Thats why we should have gone for F-16 India production and purchased huge numbers of such aircraft.

We could have made 7-8 ships of each class but we go to redesigning after 3-4 ships of every class.

Our Mechanised Forces are all obsolete, even our T-90 tanks await upgrades, we are still using BMP-2s and modernisation will take decades and fleet expansion is just a dream, USA spends 3.4% of GDP on defence. But China spends just 1.8886% of their GDP on defence and still we are spending 2.4% and achieving nothing. China was and is cleaver spends more of her GDP on development and economic growth as growing economy will increase defence budget automatically hence they spend small portion of their GDP on defence.

We spend a lot on defence nothing on development. We need an agriculture, Indiastrial, and IT revolution. else India will be cease to exist because Pakistan is breathing her last, and pakistan will try fully to disturb us in the valley so that it helps the chinks.
:crazy::crazy::crazy:
 

Knowitall

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I saw a recent interview with a China expert who talked about these things. What he said is that Chinese government is willing to sacrifice its soldiers in very large numbers to gain its objectives. So even if their training is crap and their technology outdated, their government doesn't have to worry about political consequences if several thousand PLA soldiers "go missing." Meanwhile we have Kangress breathing down the neck of Modi and BJP over 20 casualties. Would the people of India put up with thousands of casualties?
Ab to sab ka dhandha ban gaya hai to blame janta.

Please tell me after galwan after uri after pathankot did the people ask rehne do pls don't escalate.

Aur they said don't do strikes we do t want deaths.

Wtf is this people of India scapegoat.

Indian people have been overly supportige of Indian military and escalation. In all the wars we have fought the people always stood like a rock behind the army.

Please don't blame janta for the incompetence of GOI.
 

FalconZero

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Counter me if I’m wrong, we should have a balance between quality and quantity.

We neither have quantity nor quality.
China cannot allocate more resources than India along LAC that's a fact. Rest talks about arjun etc are fair but exaggeration and are sounds of despair nothing else.
 

Cheran

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I saw a recent interview with a China expert who talked about these things. What he said is that Chinese government is willing to sacrifice its soldiers in very large numbers to gain its objectives. So even if their training is crap and their technology outdated, their government doesn't have to worry about political consequences if several thousand PLA soldiers "go missing." Meanwhile we have Kangress breathing down the neck of Modi and BJP over 20 casualties. Would the people of India put up with thousands of casualties?
Sometimes i wonder as to how the trajectory of the Kargil war would have been had social media been there at that point of time. Behavior of Dimran lovering journalists ref. Balakot would be a pointer.

Wokes would be all over pandering to Paki propaganda & putting pressure to stop the offensive & save Indian lives.

Ofc. Indian lives need to be saved. But, if under attack, we have no other option or capitulate.
 

FalconZero

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I saw a recent interview with a China expert who talked about these things. What he said is that Chinese government is willing to sacrifice its soldiers in very large numbers to gain its objectives. So even if their training is crap and their technology outdated, their government doesn't have to worry about political consequences if several thousand PLA soldiers "go missing." Meanwhile we have Kangress breathing down the neck of Modi and BJP over 20 casualties. Would the people of India put up with thousands of casualties?
This is not a new strategy, Chinese still believe in sending waves of hoards hoping that they will succeed, it doesn't work always, Vietnam is the case 1, it worked in 62 only because we were headed by retards, they tried a similar tactic in korean war and failed.
 
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