India-China 2020 Border conflict

[Dessert Storm]

It’s not about modi, there are deeper structural problems that need to be addressed and these things take time, decades infact.

As the Generals would say.....we fight with what we have. Preparations are never complete. If there's an opportunity for the taking, he will definitely take it. We all know the opportunity is there. He's just waiting for when.

 

[omaebakabaka]

As the Generals would say.....we fight with what we have. Preparations are never complete. If there's an opportunity for the taking, he will definitely take it. He's just waiting for when.

Exactly, their talks and actions so far

 

[Kumata]

I am very optimistic, the world order created after ww2 will fall in next 3-5 years and a new order shall rise. I m looking forward to that day. historically, every 70-80 years, a major global change happens.

the current world orders like WTO, reserve currency, UNO, NATO, etc has already became unsustainable and is causing wars. anything that goes up the sky needs to come down. so is china and so is usa. historically, all big emperors have fallen and none have survived, romans? gone, Persians? gone, moguls? gone, Akand bharat? broken into several small countries, Great Britain? struggling to survive, imperial japan? got nuked, Mighty USSR? broken, Third Reich? committed suicide

war is inevitable now, china will fight for his expansionist ego, porkistan will fight for his Kashmir lust and INDIA will fight for its survival.

your dates are fast approaching dude.. u better do some thing...

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I am very optimistic, the world order created after ww2 will fall in next 3-5 years and a new order shall rise. I m looking forward to that day. historically, every 70-80 years, a major global change happens.

the current world orders like WTO, reserve currency, UNO, NATO, etc has already became unsustainable and is causing wars. anything that goes up the sky needs to come down. so is china and so is usa. historically, all big emperors have fallen and none have survived, romans? gone, Persians? gone, moguls? gone, Akand bharat? broken into several small countries, Great Britain? struggling to survive, imperial japan? got nuked, Mighty USSR? broken, Third Reich? committed suicide

war is inevitable now, china will fight for his expansionist ego, porkistan will fight for his Kashmir lust and INDIA will fight for its survival.

Another world war will probably happen before this occurs.

 

[ezsasa]

I didn't get you?

Currently any and every place from where we can launch an attack is well defended by the enemy similarly any and every from where they can launch an attack on us is heavily fortified and well defended.

Both sides know each other well and have a good understanding of the land so I don't think anybody might have missed something.

Are you suggesting something very radical like going through nepal or bhutan?

on a lighter note.

this is one of the funny things I have been noticing, even the most vocal advocates of India’s power projection confine themselves to defending India’s boundaries and near abouts.

Nah mate, I’ll have to think about it. One thing for sure it has to be far away from our boundaries.

 

[utubekhiladi]

You will have to expand on that...

sure boss,

historically, mirror deployments of armed forces hasn't helped defenders. take a look at few of our own example at border. we did mirror deployments matching men and equipment's, but china went to build barracks, helipads, cables etc and now have solid hold on our territories,

instead of mirror deployments, we should have started shelling the other positions under the pretext of unilaterally changing status quo when they tried to construct bunkers or barracks from the day one. that would have put fear in them,

we did similar mirror deployment during dhoklam? result, those sob's came back with more forces.

we did another mirror deployment after our parliament attack at western border? result? we gave porkistan some field experience and the cross border firing became new norm till today.

we did mirror deployment after 8/11. result? nothing.

take another classic example of battle of chittorgarh, the king of mewar did mirror deployment against invading akbar forces result? mewar lost everything. including the fort

so basically, mirror deployment is only helpful if you are going to take any action. or else, mirror deployments are bad idea.

if our children join IA, they will learn why mirror deployments are such bad idea.

 

[Kalki2020]

Well guys only a war will settle the boundary issue with China. No negotiations will work.

India should prepare for war. However there should be no immediate rush to the war unless forced by the Chinese side.

War will definitely happen next year.

Good amount of kinetic actions will be seen along so called LAC if Joe assumes the office after election. LAC is no way going to be what it was before Apr2020. A lot on geopolitical front is also on stake particularly US commitment for Indo Pacific.
India is still holding herself back in the hope of change of the heart in the chinese camp which is near to impossible seeing how we have raised the stakes for China in the game of brinkmanship.

There are two precondition for next year, first Joe wins US presidential election & second, China deliberate avoid complicating things in SCS & on Taiwan, we may see some big actions along LAC.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

sure boss,

historically, mirror deployments of armed forces hasn't helped defenders. take a look at few of our own example at border. we did mirror deployments matching men and equipment's, but china went to build barracks, helipads, cables etc and now have solid hold on our territories,

instead of mirror deployments, we should have started shelling the other positions under the pretext of unilaterally changing status quo when they tried to construct bunkers or barracks from the day one. that would have put fear in them,

we did similar mirror deployment during dhoklam? result, those sob's came back with more forces.

we did another mirror deployment after our parliament attack at western border? result? we gave porkistan some field experience and the cross border firing became new norm till today.

we did mirror deployment after 8/11. result? nothing.

take another classic example of battle of chittorgarh, the king of mewar did mirror deployment against invading akbar forces result? mewar lost everything.

so basically, mirror deployment is only helpful if you are going to take any action. or else, mirror deployments are bad idea.

if our children join IA, they will learn why mirror deployments are such bad idea.

This deployment has tied up the military it has given them nothing to do which is really
bad for any military.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Good amount of kinetic actions will be seen along so called LAC if Joe assumes the office after election. LAC is no way going to be what it was before Apr2020. A lot on geopolitical front is also on stake particularly US commitment for Indo Pacific.
India is still holding herself back in the hope of change of the heart in the chinese camp which is near to impossible seeing how we have raised the stakes for China in the game of brinkmanship.

There are two precondition for next year, first Joe wins US presidential election & second, China deliberate avoid complicating things in SCS & on Taiwan, we may see some big actions along LAC.

Any further increase in dosage to joe's medication will be fatal

 

[utubekhiladi]

Another world war will probably happen before this occurs.

i believe the war has already started, it started the day when they released the virus to weaken other economies, break dollar monopoly and tried to dominate the world.

 

[Kalki2020]

I have a question for knowledgeable guys here...
Is not war a cheaper option ...than maintaining 40/50k troop there
I know war is not a viable option ,but I hardly believe this will be a all out war
But maintaining 40/50 k troop with other equipment s is a very costly affair
And India will not intiate any action till china provoke s one
And both sides are in wait and watch mode
Both are believing that the other side will retreat sooner or later.........

If we don't preempt & take the initiative to vaporize Himalayan snow then we lose our right to be a player to reckon with in big games, hot or cold.

Shock & awe is best if we have all what we need in terms of military hardware.

 

[utubekhiladi]

This deployment has tied up the military it has given them nothing to do which is really
bad for any military.

if I was the commander, I would not have wasted time doing mirror deployment, instead I would have used the men and resources to occupy or dominate other strategic areas. we have a long border with china and china have pain points too, I would have used my men and resources to poke the painful nerve of china

something I learned back in ooty,

never pit tanks against tanks,
never pit planes against planes,
never pit men against men,

unless, you have planes from star wars, or tanks from andromeda galaxy, the loss will be mutual. and the side with higher numbers will win. (china in this case. )

 

[LETHALFORCE]

if I was the commander, I would not have wasted time doing mirror deployment, instead I would have used the men and resources to occupy or dominate other strategic areas. we have a long border with china and china have pain points too, I would have used my men and resources to poke the painful nerve of china

something I learned back in ooty,

never pit tanks against tanks,
never pit planes against planes,
never pit men against men,

unless, you have planes from star wars, or tanks from andromeda galaxy, the loss will be mutual. and the side with higher numbers will win. (china in this case. )

Never make soldiers do diplomatic talks.

 

[utubekhiladi]

As the Generals would say.....we fight with what we have.

No, that's not what they say these days..

the modern saying is "we piss with the dick that we have" (even though it might be little smaller)

Exactly, their talks and actions so far

your dates are fast approaching dude.. u better do some thing...

are you seeing de-escalation happening? no - right? then wait for it.

 

[Cactus09]

DRDO upgraded T-72 Ajaya Mk2 Main Battle Tank has been sported on a Train wagon heading possibly towards a field range for trials. T-72 Ajaya Mk2 comes equipped with a host of improvements and upgrades which will allow it to operate along with T-90 Main Battle Tanks at the same firepower. T-72 Ajaya Mk2 gets an uprated indigenously-produced high-power multifuel engine V-46-6, based on Russian design, that originally had a 780 hp capacity but now boosts 1000 hp capacity which was modified by CVRDE. T-90 MBT comes equipped with V92S2 engines which also has a 1,000 hp capacity but the Army was keen on uprated Original V-46-6 engines of T-72 due to the higher reliability of the engine instead of going for a swap with V92S2 engines used on T-90s. CVRDE modified peripheral sub-systems of the V-46-6 engines with help from several Indian industries to achieve 1000 hp capacity. T-72 Ajaya Mk2 also features DRDO developed Explosive reactive Armour (ERA) Mk-II for armour protection against shaped-charge warheads and kinetic energy projectiles. According to DRDO, ERA Mk-II has the same configuration and performance as that of the T-90 ERA and it has been demonstrated to the user. T-72 Ajaya Mk2 is also now comes equipped with Israeli TIFCS (Thermal Imager Fire Control Systems ) which now boasts the T-72 tank’s ability to identify targets up to three kilometers at night from earlier 300 meters. Alpha Design Technologies (ADT) is a local Indian partner of the Israeli company Elop-Elbit and the company has been contracted for 300 thermal imager standalone kits of which almost all have been delivered until now. Indian Army is equipped with 1700 T-72 MBTs but only 969 will be upgraded to T-72 Ajaya Mk2 configuration once trials are successfully concluded and the rest are to be phased out in the coming decades gradually.

 

[Dessert Storm]

No, that's not what they say these days..

the modern saying is "we piss with the dick that we have" (even though it might be little smaller)







are you seeing de-escalation happening? no - right? then wait for it.

We are saying the same thing. It's just that my word play ain't as colorful as yours.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Comeon a military attack on China, wont happen out of the blue.. The US would take some action w.r.t taiwan warranting a chinese reaction, and use it to start its campaign.. It will be a long war, with the US first yanking all critical dependencies kn the chinese supply chain, then, choking all chinese military and commercial movement in and out of the first island chain.. and the slowly closing the trap further..

Jr Bush... Yes out of the Blue.

 

[utubekhiladi]

DRDO upgraded T-72 Ajaya Mk2 Main Battle Tank has been sported on a Train wagon heading possibly towards a field range for trials. T-72 Ajaya Mk2 comes equipped with a host of improvements and upgrades which will allow it to operate along with T-90 Main Battle Tanks at the same firepower. T-72 Ajaya Mk2 gets an uprated indigenously-produced high-power multifuel engine V-46-6, based on Russian design, that originally had a 780 hp capacity but now boosts 1000 hp capacity which was modified by CVRDE. T-90 MBT comes equipped with V92S2 engines which also has a 1,000 hp capacity but the Army was keen on uprated Original V-46-6 engines of T-72 due to the higher reliability of the engine instead of going for a swap with V92S2 engines used on T-90s. CVRDE modified peripheral sub-systems of the V-46-6 engines with help from several Indian industries to achieve 1000 hp capacity. T-72 Ajaya Mk2 also features DRDO developed Explosive reactive Armour (ERA) Mk-II for armour protection against shaped-charge warheads and kinetic energy projectiles. According to DRDO, ERA Mk-II has the same configuration and performance as that of the T-90 ERA and it has been demonstrated to the user. T-72 Ajaya Mk2 is also now comes equipped with Israeli TIFCS (Thermal Imager Fire Control Systems ) which now boasts the T-72 tank’s ability to identify targets up to three kilometers at night from earlier 300 meters. Alpha Design Technologies (ADT) is a local Indian partner of the Israeli company Elop-Elbit and the company has been contracted for 300 thermal imager standalone kits of which almost all have been delivered until now. Indian Army is equipped with 1700 T-72 MBTs but only 969 will be upgraded to T-72 Ajaya Mk2 configuration once trials are successfully concluded and the rest are to be phased out in the coming decades gradually.

View attachment 61378

army is ready to put old wine in new bottle.
my question is what's wrong with Arjun Mk1A?

that tank have satisfied all requirements and still waiting for orders

 

[Cactus09]

army is ready to put old wine in new bottle.
my question is what's wrong with Arjun Mk1A?

that tank have satisfied all requirements and still waiting for orders

65-68 tons is too heavy for mountains and even for sandy thar or Marshy Punjab plains. . That's why IA went for T90MS.

 

[utubekhiladi]

65-68 tons is too heavy for mountains and even for sandy thar or Marshy Punjab plains. . That's why IA went for T90MS.

yes, but its also about weight distribution. arjun mk1a has low weight distribution per sq. inch on its track. the possibility of t90 getting stuck is higher when compared to arjun.