India-China 2020 Border conflict

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India inflicted heavy casualties on Chinese forces at Galwan: Rajnath Singh

Singh said, while speaking in the Lok Sabha on the second day Monsoon Session of Parliament, that India is ready to handle any situation.

www.hindustantimes.com

India inflicted heavy casualties on Chinese forces at Galwan: Rajnath Singh


He should have given a number??

Be happy he atleast said all this.
I have no idea what MEA sponsored "don't needle China" bs is going on in GoI.
We can release lots of info bursting bubble of 2nd super power but for whatever reason it seems like we're holding back, to not "anger the dragon".
They live in a house of glass and we seem to avoid throwing stones at it.

 

[Sanglamorre]

Be happy he atleast said all this.
I have no idea what MEA sponsored "don't needle China" bs is going on in GoI.
We can release lots of info bursting bubble of 2nd super power but for whatever reason it seems like we're holding back, to not "anger the dragon".
They live in a house of glass and we seem to avoid throwing stones at it.

Generation issue. The ones running these depts are of a vintage that was subservient to foreign culture. We need a generation change to get more assertive people.

Unless it gets captured by Jamati jihadis.

 

[doreamon]

Can nyone explain me why this chinese bomber thing is discussed as a potent weapon ? Yeah it can shoot from a stand up distance of thousands of km to our assets ...

But what stops us from replying them with land based ballistic missiles and cruise missiles . Chinese targets are even with in range of air lunched brahmosh and storm shadow . We dnt need to cross border . If they have air defence so do we .
Is there a military rule that someone attacks u with bomber then u have to reply with a bomber ?

 

[TheMightyRama]

 

[ataru09]

The average German is also an ethno-masochist, self-flagellating sissy, just below the cuckery of Scandiniggers like Sweden, Denmark, Norway etc

Ufff. Haven't seen this much fire rain down on Germany since the bombing of Dresden.

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

Krait.

Combat Survival.

I hope the answer is enough

Hope the noodles dont cross your path.

 

[Bhadra]

India is not a welfare state.
To be a welfare state you need to have $$$ to spend on welfare.
India is a dole based state, PSU employment is dole, reservation is dole, MNREGA type schemes are dole.

Actual socialist/commie countries focus on goals instead, for most commie places it was meeting the "production targets" of a given month or year, any shortfall and there are consequences involved for everyone down the chain.Consequences like beatings, starvation, gulags etc etc, very good motivators in a class-less society i'd say.

In your normal capitalist countries non performance has consequences both for individuals and entities like companies, lazy kamchors get demotion, pay cuts or outright fired, mis-managed companies go bankrupt or are sold off by their parent companies.

In Indian PSUs there are no consequences whatsoever, lazy employees will continue to be employed, getting pay, bonus, benefits, bribes if possible and even pension after retirement, and will never lose their jobs.
People are promoted based on bootlicking, he's from /mycaste/, he's from /mylanguagegroup/, he's from /myvillage/ etc etc
PSU companies will keep getting bailouts without the threat of Privatization or a purge of the C-Levels.
Sab chalta hai, everyone is happy, lazy employees, union dalals, politicians getting votes, babus, everyone is chill.
That is until you run out of money or face a crushing defeat in a war that is.

Oh My God ?

You seriously need to read Directive Priciples of the State Policy as enshrined in the constitution of India...

India is a vote bank welfare state though out... out and out...

 

[ezsasa]

Madhav Nalapat is wasting his energy advocating for a U.S-India military alliance, We are on our own.
U.S unsheathes it's military instruments in the scale that Nalapat wants, only when an American territory/asset is attacked.

 

[porky_kicker]

This is the general twist being played out.

We had intermittent patrol access, which has been denied now. As long as MEA deep state exists, who would sell the country short in order to appear 'sophisticated', we can expect such things to continue.

Let me put things into perspective , India's independence was negotiated with the so called " Indian leaders " with the tact understanding that the ecosystem which helped the British to rule India will be allowed continue to exist post independence. One reason why Bose was eliminated because he had made it clear that he would put to task all so called Indians who had collaborated with the British.

You will note that after independence non of the bureaucrats, civil or military officials who were in cahoots with the British were neither expunged nor punished. Which would have been the most sensible thing to do .

As a result a ecosystem was created and preserved generation after generation who kept working India in shackles.

Mao in china purged an entire generation , especially targeting bureaucrats amd as a result cleansed the entire country . What he did was basically a genocide but nevertheless the positive aspects is something worth noting.

We had no need to replicate the same , but we could have atleast removed all such erstwhile British lackeys and appointees who retained power and who were trained to keep own countrymen in shackles.

Now we are reaping the benefits of the same .

I don't give a rats ass about civilian administration of the country , they are pathetic and not worth a second glance , but I always wonder why indian military never gave up on its let's say " British heritage " and adopt Indian heritage in toto ? Or rather too reluctant to adopt ?

The rot is too deep in this country , the foundation was laid wrong and by the wrong people. For what my opinion matters I have given up any hope of us ever regaining our lost territories.

Look at this way India is a democracy where any party in power will never be proactive inorder to recapture lost territories unless it ties up with their political goal ie stay in power . Thus it is a near impossible expectation in a democracy like ours because the opposition will look to weaken the government even if means going against the interests of the country so that they put the government on the backfoot and gain political mileage inorder to return to power . They will corner the government on any shortcomings or adverse impact be it large casualties or high economic costs ( which is inevitable in a war ) in order to deter the government looking to regain India's territorial sanctity . So it is near impossible to expect any government in power to be offensive rather than defensive which has always been the norm till date.

See the conundrum

 

[Shashank Nayak]

Madhav Nalapat is wasting his energy advocating for a U.S-India military alliance, We are on our own.
U.S unsheathes it's military instruments in the scale that Nalapat wants, only when an American territory/asset is attacked.

US planned to offer NATO membership to Georgia and Ukraine. But once Russia occupied Georgia and Ukrainian lands, US shied away from offering them membership as US did not want to get entangled with Russia, over a pre-existing dispute..
So, imagining US to directly intervene in a war against China over a 73 year old border dispute is daydreaming... But, closer cooperation with US can boost Indian military power through unparalleled real time intelligence, ammunition supplies, and help in cyber warfare capabilities..

 

[omaebakabaka]

The rot is too deep in this country , the foundation was laid wrong and by the wrong people. For what my opinion matters I have given up any hope of us ever regaining our lost territories.

Look at this way India is a democracy where any party in power will never be proactive inorder to recapture lost territories unless it ties up with their political goal ie stay in power . Thus it is a near impossible expectation in a democracy like ours because the opposition will look to weaken the government even if means going against the interests of the country so that they gain political mileage inorder to return to power . They will corner the government on any shortcomings or adverse impact be it large casualties or economic costs in order to deter the government looking to regain India's territorial sanctity .

See the conundrum

The fact that we are not backing down royally must tell you something that atleast there are few people in current govt that give a damn? If people give them a bit of time, things do not look as bad...especially if our MIC takes off....

 

[ezsasa]

closer cooperation with US can boost Indian military power through unparalleled real time intelligence, ammunition supplies, and help in cyber warfare capabilities..

These are services that we are buying, not free.

 

[porky_kicker]

The fact that we are not backing down royally must tell you something that atleast there are few people in current govt that give a damn? If people give them a bit of time, things do not look as bad...especially if our MIC takes off....

Phele pharo jo maine likha , phir samjho main jo likha , repeat the process again untill you understand the the premise of my post .

I have described the system , while you have described an event inside the system, constrained / limited by the very system I have described.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Phele pharo jo maine likha , phir samjho main jo likha , repeat the process again untill you understand the the premise of my post . I have described the system , while you have described an event inside the system .

Ok sirji, read it again and I only wanted to respond to the part about lost territories.

 

[doreamon]

The fact that we are not backing down royally must tell you something that atleast there are few people in current govt that give a damn? If people give them a bit of time, things do not look as bad...especially if our MIC takes off....

He is talking about our defence mentality and lack of offence .... our world view with respect to our neighbour has a lot of difference . Just imagine a country like pakistan did a kargil and 1965 on us .. Even 1971 was a bread thrown at us by gencidous paki fauz . They royally got fckd but that is not the issue..We had the chance to bomb their nuclear instalation in 90s like isreal did on iran recently and iraq during saddam hussain era but we dint .And that morarji desai and RAW issue is out there in public domain. It has always been abt defence and reacting to this and that largely .... Our defence budget is defencive . Idea of 36 rafale is also defensive . Now qus is how long can we survive like this as a nation . Now china has jumped to game . Can we effort to stand if we keep following old game .. Ideologies run deep in this country . Time to be real with our situation .

 

[omaebakabaka]

He is talking about our defence mentality and lack of offence .... our world view with respect to our neighbour has a lot of difference . Just imagine a country like pakistan did a kargil and 1965 on us .. Even 1971 was a bread thrown at us by gencidous paki fauz . They royally got fckd but that is not the issue..We had the chance to bomb their nuclear instalation in 90s like isreal did on iran recently and iraq during saddam hussain era but we dint .And that morarji desai and RAW issue is out there in public domain. It has always been abt defence and reacting to this and that largely .... Our defence budget is defencive . Idea of 36 rafale is also defensive . Now qus is how long can we survive like this as a nation . Now china has jumped to game . Can we effort to stand if we keep following old game .. Ideologies run deep in this country . Time to be real with our situation .

Sure, I understood all of that and did not conflict with his view point. I just responded about the lost territories and all hope is not lost with non-congress govt 2nd time in a row with decent majority but it takes time. Not sure if I contradicted anything he said....

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

I really never understood what the strategic game was behind saying things like PoK is ours, Aksai Chin is ours etc. What exactly was the plan to recover these territories in these 70 long years? What diplomacy is actually achieved by claiming these areas as territories?Why are we so reliant on diplomacy and why is there so much need to project soft power? We are a nuke power so there is an ultimate stalemate here with the CCP and therefore with the bakristanis as well.
What is the point in having a nuke powered SSBN or lethal missiles like Brahmos, Barak 8, Mica etc if we are going to lose territory or lose soldiers on the LoC due to cross border fire? If our existing arsenal of weapons including 270+ Su 30 MKIs, range of naval ships, Rafael, Poseidon P8is, S-400 anti missile defense and a host of military satellites do not work as deterrents, then what is the point? Clearing both the CCP and bakristanis are NOT deterred by India's weapons profile. This automatically means our strategic military posture has not been effective. And our diplomacy gets beaten down every time. In fact, it is seen as a colossal weakness and clearly has zero impact on bakristanis and the mongols' bastard children, the Hans. These two defective human species do not rely on diplomacy at all to solve issues. So why then is India overly reliant on diplomacy to solve long standing issues with these neanderthals? It is illogical and makes no sense. Something is very very wrong with how our strategic establishment goes about their jobs - intelligence gathering is inadequate, excessive dependence on diplomacy, huge urge to project soft power, losing territory is ok mentality etc.
I only see one way ahead as the two decrepit neighbors are both nuke powers and therefore everything is in kind of a stalemate. To win strategically we must become a $5-6 trillion+ economy quickly. And then we need to use that economic power to sanction states like bakristan and napalm to prevent them aligning with the CCP. Tame the CCP and the porki army will automatically surrender to India's demands. The act of taming the CCP should have started beginning 2000s. Complete lack of intelligence on the CCP's real intentions has been a setback for a lot of nations like the US, the EU, Japan, India, S.Korea etc. However, India is the only adversary that actually shares a land boundary with the CCP thanks to the extremely stupid diplomacy in 1950s to agree to not call out Tibet as an independent nation.
Now, we need to loudly yell that the CCP has broken all boundary agreements and use that as an excuse to break out of these diplomatic agreements on one china policy etc. And start recognizing Tibet, Taiwan, East Turkestan as independent countries. And join with the US/EU, Japan, S.Korea etc to demand democracies in these areas.
Finishing the CCP and Communism is the only way out now. Not just for us, but for the entire world. All our future strategies must be based on this one undeniable goal - economy or not, an authoritarian CCP has no place in this world. Unfortunately, with these moves, we will continue to alienate our allies like Russia, another authoritarian state, who for now equally favors both India and the CCP, but will end up staying neutral as CCP's global ambitions start coming out. Who knows, the Mongolians and Russians may join us in reigniting even settled border disputes along their long borders with the Han-stan, ala CCP's nefarious meddling in Indo-napalm and Indo-bhutan borders. The future is up for grabs. But we can no longer afford to have a weak diplomatic and military deterrence any further. Whether we like it or not, we no longer can play neutral and lead movements like the NAM. We are now, firmly, part of the movement to end CCP and communism and liberate the poor Chinese peasants and the neighborhood from this mega CCP virus. This is making to getting rid of the Nazis. This is the only way out for the entire world to prevent a humanity erasing WW3.
Anyone who believes we are just dealing with a small border skirmish is a fool. CCP's agendas are evil for humanity. Make no mistake.

 

[Tridev123]

My first posting was once the air dominance is established bombers can be used with escort and you reiterated it in this post. Confusion is due to lost in translation....with India this is a bit difficult because air dominance by China is not a given or easy and mostly impossible. So in H6 bomber case, they will mostly launch from out of range of bvr missiles or go risking a one way mission.

Yes, the PLAAF will not be able to establish air dominance over Indian skies.
In fact they may get a nasty surprise and lose many fighters.
The Su30mki is superior technology wise to the Su30mkk with the Chinese.
Only areas where they may be doing OK is in Aesa radars which they have installed on some of their planes and long range air to air missiles.
Also a large air defence network with Sam's like HQ9 etc.
But these are not combat proven. How much truth and how much hype is to be seen.
It is widely acknowledged that Western Aesa radars are possibly one generation ahead of Chinese Aesa radars. Similar case in EW.
I believe our Israeli and French Aesa radars will be better than the Chinese ones.
Also there are reports that we have acquired Russian Awacs killer missiles which can be fired at Chinese bombers.
Our Phalcon Awacs is better than the Chinese Awacs so we will detect their bombers earlier.
Not to forget our acquisition of Meteor missiles.
I think the IAF has the edge in air combat over the PLAAF.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Yes, the PLAAF will not be able to establish air dominance over Indian skies.
In fact they may get a nasty surprise and lose many fighters.
The Su30mki is superior technology wise to the Su30mkk with the Chinese.
Only areas where they may be doing OK is in Aesa radars which they have installed on some of their planes and long range air to air missiles.
Also a large air defence network with Sam's like HQ9 etc.
But these are not combat proven. How much truth and how much hype is to be seen.
It is widely acknowledged that Western Aesa radars are possibly one generation ahead of Chinese Aesa radars. Similar case in EW.
I believe our Israeli and French Aesa radars will be better than the Chinese ones.
Also there are reports that we have acquired Russian Awacs killer missiles which can be fired at Chinese bombers.
Our Phalcon Awacs is better than the Chinese Awacs so we will detect their bombers earlier.
Not to forget our acquisition of Meteor missiles.
I think the IAF has the edge in air combat over the PLAAF.

One other potential advantage they have is replacements while we are a bit low in a 2 front scenario.

 

[UZI™️]