India-China 2020 Border conflict

[cereal killer]

Just a thought:

If in the end there is no military escalation, it would mean that this whole fiasco was a distraction, which in turn means CCP views Indian security establishment as a soft state which is incapable of imposing retaliatory consequences.

Or maybe to hurt India economically as well as forced to keep substantial force along LAC, making any Indian move to GB or PoK more or less impossible. Chinese PLA would get battle hardened too.

 

[Sanglamorre]

Or maybe to hurt India economically as well as forced to keep substantial force along LAC, making any Indian move to GB or PoK more or less impossible. Chinese PLA would get battle hardened too.

How will they get battle hardened without battle? If winter experience is what they're aiming for, they can't transfer that learning to any other front.

 

[Dessert Storm]

Or maybe to hurt India economically as well as forced to keep substantial force along LAC, making any Indian move to GB or PoK more or less impossible. Chinese PLA would get battle hardened too.

It won't be maybe. It definitely would be economic pain. There is anti-china sentiment all over with the major countries gravitating towards India as a pivot. Time to show we mean business. Even if it's Cold Winters, it would be cold and freezing for them but cold n busy for us. Let the 'readjustments' continue.

 

[shade]

Just a thought:

If in the end there is no military escalation, it would mean that this whole fiasco was a distraction, which in turn means CCP views Indian security establishment as a soft state which is incapable of imposing retaliatory consequences.

It could also mean the chinese version of "Inshallah, the boys played well, we can always try next time "
Their expectation would be that we'd be stuck not knowing what to do, but in the end our boys sit atop hills now, overlooking their encroachments, we have ensured a stalemate where their further plans in that region are stymied.

They can always be "okay" with this stalemate and appear somewhere else to grab land next year when the yindos have "forgotten" about this.

 

[dumdumdum]

Can people who have been part of Tejas contract negotiations be appointed as negotiators with China? Chinese might just abandon the whole idea after 78th round of Chai Biscuit and rather go n fight a war or 2 in South China sea instead

 

[shade]

Can people who have been part of Tejas contract negotiations be appointed as negotiators with China? Chinese might just abandon the whole idea after 78th round of Chai Biscuit and rather go n fight a war or 2 in South China sea instead

The Chinese are the masters of chai biscoot, and doing stuff on the ground while you are busy taking the biscoot and chai seriously

 

[omaebakabaka]

Just a thought:

If in the end there is no military escalation, it would mean that this whole fiasco was a distraction, which in turn means CCP views Indian security establishment as a soft state which is incapable of imposing retaliatory consequences.

Thats a bit of a strange take on the IA being incapable, if any it proved that we are ready to give them a bloody nose and their days of stealing land easily in Chinese way are over....

 

[omaebakabaka]

Or maybe to hurt India economically as well as forced to keep substantial force along LAC, making any Indian move to GB or PoK more or less impossible. Chinese PLA would get battle hardened too.

This is a good thing, there should not be unheld or no mans land anymore on anywhere in the border. As a side effect, it will bankrupt Pakistan. Our army should be there full force until Tibet becomes independent or CCP collapses.

 

[SimplyIndian]

Just a thought:

If in the end there is no military escalation, it would mean that this whole fiasco was a distraction, which in turn means CCP views Indian security establishment as a soft state which is incapable of imposing retaliatory consequences.

IMO this whole episode is to save Xi. He was under pressure because of wuhan virus. All major countries instigated China that it is engineered Virus. CCP is not happy with public shame Xi has brought and USA, EU going against China.

What option Xi has to be in power - To be seen as potent leader who make India bow down. If this is achieved his competitors and not so well wisher will be purged, CCP will be happy. XI will be next MAO. After Doklam and Jhula jhuli chat biscoot with Modi, XI was under the impression that Modi will do exactly what he did after Doklam. nothing but chai biscoot.

Hence so aggressive posture by PLA in Ladakh and Nepal chutiapa by oli.

BUT nothing worked, current GOI not only matched the deployment, but also showing the intent to reverse salami slicing and aggression. GOI is banning apps after apps and killing Cenni contracts worth billions.

This adventure of XI again brought shame again to CCP, and now CCP must be asking him what next?

1. China accept indian offer and deescalate, public shame, execute XI ...some one else is next leader. Everything goes back to normal even commercials ties with India if China accept Indian demand. WIN for GOI.

2. XI present option of limited war with India to teach final lesson, and try to save his image. If this happens IA/IAF/IN are ready. We are much more prepared this time. Even USA and other SCS countries will chim in. Xi lose the face and China land in Ladakh. WIN for GOI again.

there is no other scenario, only prolonged deployment for which we are ready which eventually turn into either option 1 or 2.

Benefit to GOI.
1. BJP popularity will peak
2. Modi will be accepted as world class leader with Military powers
3. Small countries look at India as godfather
4. India will have much more say in World affair
5. IA and IN will truly become external facing orgs and not limited to indian sub.
6. Librandus, commi, anti india elements will get tight slap and delth with IRON hand
7.MODI win 2024 by 350+ seats
8. Rise of nationalism in India
9. reform in MOD and babu culture
10. Decoupling with China, true make in India moment.

This is god given opportunity to current GOI and BJP which they are aware of. This event will shape India foreign and military policy.

WIN WIN for Modi either way. we are not loosing anything, but ya need to have patience.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

Or maybe to hurt India economically as well as forced to keep substantial force along LAC, making any Indian move to GB or PoK more or less impossible. Chinese PLA would get battle hardened too.

Battle hardened without a battle. ? They would improve their mountaineering skills, and logistics though if they have year round deployment of 2 to 3 divisions in ladakh..

 

[ezsasa]

Thats a bit of a strange take on the IA being incapable, if any it proved that we are ready to give them a bloody nose and their days of stealing land easily in Chinese way are over....

it's not about IA, it's about Indian security establishment.
It's a hypothesis, not an opinion. you can counter it.

 

[geoBR]

Chinese H-6 Bombers Deployed Near India’s Ladakh Border: CJ-20 Cruise Missiles Pose Major Threat to Mountain Bases

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/chinese-h-6-bombers-deployed-near-india-s-ladakh-border

Amid simmering tensions between China and Indian after a border clash in mid-June claimed over 150 Indian casualties, new images released by the Central Theatre Command of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) show several H-6 bombers have been deployed near the disputed area. China deploys over 270 H-6 bombers across the country, the bulk of them based near its east coast, which make up the largest bomber fleet in the world with much newer airframes available than those in the American or Russian fleets. The H-6’s considerable firepower, deploying a wide range of standoff cruise missiles, can potentially provide the PLA with a major advantage in the event of future clash in the Ladakh region, particularly given the scarcity of airbases on both sides meaning the ability to strike Indian bases at long ranges could be enough to turn the balance in the air and provide the PLA with air superiority. Most notably, the new CJ-20 cruise missile carries a 500kg warhead and has a 2000km range, while its lighter counterpart the YJ-63 has one tenth of the range but is considerably lighter meaning more can be carried by a single bomber. Their very high precision and manoeuvrability make them a very serious threat to Indian positions.

China’s H-6 fleet today is primarily oriented towards engaging ships and military bases in the Western Pacific region, with a number of bombers also having been converted fora an electronic attack role. Tensions with India, however, reveal that the aircraft still have a role to play in a conventional land attack role. Indian for its part was reportedly considering acquiring modern bombers from Russia, namely the Tu-22M, to serve as a maritime strike platform. The Russian airframe design is more modern and has a superior flight performance to the H-6, although it is considerably more expensive to operate and, depending on the variant, does not have an advantage in terms of sensors or avionics. India currently deploys K-100 air to air missiles from its Su-30MKI heavyweight fighters which have a formidable range estimated at 300-400km - with the missiles well optimised to engaging subsonic bombers. The Indian Defence Ministry has also ordered S-400 missile batteries which will be deployed to the Ladakh region when they are received from Russia, with the platforms highly capable at intercepting cruise missile attacks as well as bombers at long ranges.

Although China currently holds an advantage in terms of aerial warfare and strike capabilities in the region, with India lacking an effective counter to the PLA’s deployment of J-16 heavyweight fighters near the Indian border, this could change as India moves to invest in more capable systems such as the S-400 and considers purchases of MiG-35 and Su-57 fighters to further modernise its combat fleet. India and Russia are also jointly developing a longer ranged and faster air launched missile to replace the K-100 - which will be able to pose a greater threat to Chinese bombers at range in future.

 

[ezsasa]

IMO this whole episode is to save Xi. He was under pressure because of wuhan virus. All major countries instigated China that it is engineered Virus. CCP is not happy with public shame Xi has brought and USA, EU going against China.

What option Xi has to be in power - To be seen as potent leader who make India bow down. If this is achieved his competitors and not so well wisher will be purged, CCP will be happy. XI will be next MAO. After Doklam and Jhula jhuli chat biscoot with Modi, XI was under the impression that Modi will do exactly what he did after Doklam. nothing but chai biscoot.

Hence so aggressive posture by PLA in Ladakh and Nepal chutiapa by oli.

BUT nothing worked, current GOI not only matched the deployment, but also showing the intent to reverse salami slicing and aggression. GOI is banning apps after apps and killing Cenni contracts worth billions.

This adventure of XI again brought shame again to CCP, and now CCP must be asking him what next?

1. China accept indian offer and deescalate, public shame, execute XI ...some one else is next leader. Everything goes back to normal even commercials ties with India if China accept Indian demand. WIN for GOI.

2. XI present option of limited war with India to teach final lesson, and try to save his image. If this happens IA/IAF/IN are ready. We are much more prepared this time. Even USA and other SCS countries will chim in. Xi lose the face and China land in Ladakh. WIN for GOI again.

there is no other scenario, only prolonged deployment for which we are ready which eventually turn into either option 1 or 2.

Benefit to GOI.
1. BJP popularity will peak
2. Modi will be accepted as world class leader with Military powers
3. Small countries look at India as godfather
4. India will have much more say in World affair
5. IA and IN will truly become external facing orgs and not limited to indian sub.
6. Librandus, commi, anti india elements will get tight slap and delth with IRON hand
7.MODI win 2024 by 350+ seats
8. Rise of nationalism in India
9. reform in MOD and babu culture
10. Decoupling with China, true make in India moment.

This is god given opportunity to current GOI and BJP which they are aware of. This event will shape India foreign and military policy.

WIN WIN for Modi either way. we are not loosing anything, but ya need to have patience.

Too far fetched on few benefits that are assumed, but ok.

 

[johnq]

The Chinese are not going anywhere. Why would they? They can sit in their comfortable heated bunkers with internet access while having plenty of supplies. Unless Indian military attacks them or their supply lines or infrastructure, they have no reason to go anywhere. They have already taken over plenty of Indian territory and are now going to keep building infrastructure on it. There is no real penalty for them if they stay.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

India-China border standoff: Overall situation at friction points in eastern Ladakh unchanged, continues to be tense, say sources | India News - Times of India

India News: The overall situation at friction points in eastern Ladakh remains unchanged and continues to be tense, 4 days after foreign ministers of India and Ch

m.timesofindia.com

Ambassador Weird dong has again started talking about deescalation today.. but Indian Army be like:

 

[omaebakabaka]

it's not about IA, it's about Indian security establishment.
It's a hypothesis, not an opinion. you can counter it.

I think I did, war is not needed when we are getting results without fighting it. Looks like we learned really quick from our neighbors.

 

[dumdumdum]

This adventure of XI again brought shame to CCP, and now CCP must be asking him what next?
1. China accept indian offer and deescalate, public shame, execute XI ...some one else is next leader. Everything goes back to normal even commercials ties with India if China accept Indian demand. WIN for GOI.
2. XI present option of limited war with India to teach final lesson, and try to save his image. If this happens IA/IAF/IN are ready. We are much more prepared this time. Even USA and other SCS countries will chim in. Xi lose the face and China land in ladhak. WIN for GOI again.

there is no other scenario, only prolonged deployment for which we are ready which eventually turn into either option 1 or 2.

I hope there is a 3rd possibility. I know the chance of it getting realized is slim but what if ...

3. Pushed to the wall, facing an unprecidented Covid situation an abysmal economic outlook, Modi decides to go all out. Although it is very risky to predict future but from India perspective I do think this is now or never in terms of solving some of the festering neighborhood issues.
There is never right time for any war, but
a. Public already frustrated with lockdowns & looking to vent out its frustration
b. Opposition parties at all time low
c. Still early in his 2nd tenure
d. Pakistan Army and Political class at their lowest point in decades
e. Chinese at their lowest in terms of sympathy & support inernationally

If we do not try to maximize our gains now, we will not get another opportunity. Modi is not going to be in power forever. After this experience if we let China go cheapely, next time when they come back, they will come back stronger, smarter and more motivated.

So in my mind it is now or never , to get Aksai Hind Back, Free Tibet and make sever dent in PoK.

This might mean hardships for Indians for next two to three years ,but I think that will be a price worth paying . We will emerge as a stronger more confident more respected nation.

 

[omaebakabaka]

The Chinese are not going anywhere. Why would they? They can sit in their comfortable heated bunkers with internet access while having plenty of supplies. Unless Indian military attacks them or their supply lines or infrastructure, they have no reason to go anywhere. They have already taken over plenty of Indian territory and are now going to keep building infrastructure on it. There is no real penalty for them if they stay.

It is not their choice nor their hometown nor do they have spiritual connection to that part. They will leave at first chance....great many empires and countries collapsed. Both Xinjiang and Tibet will seperate when things align....military sitting to make a point is weakness not strength.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

The Chinese are not going anywhere. Why would they? They can sit in their comfortable heated bunkers with internet access while having plenty of supplies. Unless Indian military attacks them or their supply lines or infrastructure, they have no reason to go anywhere. They have already taken over plenty of Indian territory and are now going to keep building infrastructure on it. There is no real penalty for them if they stay.

Nahi bhai.. Its not so simple.. Their airconditioned rooms are in Moldo and Rutog . They will have to deploy on peaks and ridges and sleep in Arctic tents to stop IA from doing further readjustments.. :

 

[SimplyIndian]

I hope there is a 3rd possibility. I know the chance of it getting realized is slim but what if ...

3. Pushed to the wall, facing an unprecidented Covid situation an abysmal economic outlook, Modi decides to go all out. Although it is very risky to predict future but from India perspective I do think this is now or never in terms of solving some of the festering neighborhood issues.
There is never right time for any war, but
a. Public already frustrated with lockdowns & looking to vent out its frustration
b. Opposition parties at all time low
c. Still early in his 2nd tenure
d. Pakistan Army and Political class at their lowest point in decades
e. Chinese at their lowest in terms of sympathy & support inernationally

If we do not try to maximize our gains now, we will not get another opportunity. Modi is not going to be in power forever. After this experience if we let China go cheapely, next time when they come back, they will come back stronger, smarter and more motivated.

So in my mind it is now or never , to get Aksai Hind Back, Free Tibet and make sever dent in PoK.

This might mean hardships for Indians for next two to three years ,but I think that will be a price worth paying . We will emerge as a stronger more confident more respected nation.

Modi wont start it. but if forced by china which they are doing, he will definitely finish it. Showing IA power to china is itself commendable, no previous GOI has guts to do so. full marks for this gesture and intent.

Rest god willing. But we will definately not start but prepare more and more.