India-China 2020 Border conflict

[cereal killer]

Finally we're looking to get out of Indo-Pak narrative

‘Border tussle has debunked the myth of asymmetry in power’

A skirmish is still possible. In Moscow, a temporary peace was agreed on. A complete pull back of Indian troops is not likely, says Srikanth Kondapalli, Professor, Chinese studies, JNU

www.livemint.com

 

[hit&run]

This is like very old news, i remember reading this back in May
This is also part of standard chinez strategy of
Surprise (is)land grab -> Build permanent structures and infrastructure to boost "claim" -> Hold position militarily and delay/stall diplomatically till your victim accepts -> rinse and repeat next year.

Thanks for confirming it to be an old news.

The cabled communication is more to do with operational doctrine, possibly lack of confidence in radio signal encryption.

 

[shade]

This is like very old news, i remember reading this back in May
This is also part of standard chinez strategy of
Surprise (is)land grab -> Build permanent structures and infrastructure to boost "claim" -> Hold position militarily and delay/stall diplomatically till your victim accepts -> rinse and repeat next year.

---quoted my post since i don't intend to edit it to fit this in ---

This strategy also depends on business interests and bureaucrats/ politicians within their victim country, who aggressively lobby their own countries to accept Chinese landgrab without any retaliation aside from randi rona to Uncle Sam i guess.

Has worked just as planned for small and weak SEAsian vassal states, and for namby pamby Corporatocracies like Korea and Japan.

The other counterpart to this is literally buy the government of foreign countries, like we have seen with the Mard -e- Chowmein country, Chi Lanka and Neplol, then there is no land to be grabbed, just handed over by your bought and paid for foreign govt.

 

[Hellfire]

What's the reason for saying no 5th gen is coming from an outside country?

Funding.

Inspite of clear indications of collusive threats for past couple of years, the GoI is still far from going in for MRCA 2.0. Enough of an indicator.

 

[SimplyIndian]

why dosen't India also let USA lease some territory for missiles to point at China???
Good way to bring in MEGATONNAGE without testing.

USA wont leave that base. Not good for India. in short.

 

[Hellfire]

Sir
ASTRA 2 Take two or three years to mature. 120D will outperform astra 1 & Russian equlants.

How exactly? What makes you say that?

But i asked just, US becoming very close to india like logistic support + QUAD, if india ask 120d & sidewinder will US offer those or not? (For warlike situation)

They will be. But how will you integrate them with the platforms?

And

Indias tax collection is much enough to spend 6 or 7 thousand crore for satellite + launch system for urgent needs.

Doesn't work that ways.

 

[Hellfire]

On #1, 2 ain't in public domain yet. Will go with what you say.
On # 3. The picture ain't clear on the AC. It might come down to AC (CATOBAR) Vs LPDs in the immediate future. Going forward, we will be having both ACs and LPDs plus with our own TEDBFs coming into play, they will be stationed on ACs n the F35B moved to LPDs (if AC acquired before LPDs).
F35Bs are comparitively versatile i.e. can be used on land, ACs, LPDs n therefore gels well with the idea with which the Govt.is looking at Joint Acquisitions.

The proposal for 04 LPDs, to enhance sea lift a division in one go (RAMFOR which spluttered and stayed), is still nowhere. This, after 2015 when I was roaming around in Vizag and Naval Officers were confident of the LPDs coming in.

Regarding the comment on usage vis a vis Pakistan and China. Given their close collaboration Vs India, that can complicate the situation e.g. India hitting Chinese Assets protected by Pakis in Indian Territories Occupied by Pakistan.

Theoretical. Not practically.

 

[Hellfire]

Instead, the government needs to liberalize firearm licensing and allow citizens to own to semi automatic rifles and train civilians in basic defensive military tactics and shooting skills.
The CCP has often spoken out against the second amendment, as they know even if they manage to give the US army a bloody nose, they can't set foot on US soil, the red necks and their AR15s would f**k them up.
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1142159.shtml

And before you say that this will not work in India, remember the northern states are a flush with illegal firearms and we don't have river of blood flowing.

Not happening.

I am all for it.

 

[sachincba]

This link was posted earlier and thanks for that

What an amazing video with details of road connectivity, pass details, past flash points. Puts all the moronic media to shame on how to explain the importance of the recent IA's moves.

The fingers ( F1-F8) are not the key.. Good to have and should push to F8..
The key is Spangur Tso lake & the entrance to Chusul..Losing the fingers can affect Chusul later but losing Spangur Tso will affect it now.

I have a Google Earth KML project of this whole area with all spots marked. If there is interest I will share the link, so you can zoom, tilt, pan and marvel at the challenge IA has taken on.

This is the gold, not just information but real analysis which significantly improved my understanding. Thanks!

 

[Dessert Storm]

The proposal for 04 LPDs, to enhance sea lift a division in one go (RAMFOR which spluttered and stayed), is still nowhere. This, after 2015 when I was roaming around in Vizag and Naval Officers were confident of the LPDs coming in.




Theoretical. Not practically.

The picture ain't clear on either the AC or the LPDs now. That's why I quoted it that ways.

Both the armies we are dealing with are essentially militia in the garb of an army. I therefore won't consider it entirely theoretical.

 

[SimplyIndian]

India has been avoiding and has (annoyingly) done every effort not to brand China as an enemy. OTOH, these bat eaters have been doing every apparent misadventure including protecting terrorists at UNO to attack us. They have now spent all their neighborly goodwill currency. Decoupling is in progress.

Their low life netizens use to make cartoon where Porkis and Chinese balloons surrounding an Indian balloon pushing and pinpricking with a smirk on their face. I used to think that only a low life coward would enjoy ganging up with likewise thug to bully a person.

Last year we shoved 370 feet long bamboo into Pakistani a$$. The piercing was so sharp that their lafanga PM cried inconsolably like a b1tch at the UN assembly. Now it's the turn of paper dragon China. The crying we read every day of Global Times only confirms the abrasions we are inflicting on them.

Just one question they call them-self dragon then why use overweight sleepy panda as mascot.

 

[Dessert Storm]

Funding.

Inspite of clear indications of collusive threats for past couple of years, the GoI is still far from going in for MRCA 2.0. Enough of an indicator.

The MRCA is stuck for the following reasons:
(1) Transcended two governments. There would be a lot of re-negotiations on some unwritten aspects.
(2) Working out Make in India/Quantum of ToT is complicated and time consuming. There is no previous template of this scale and complexity.
(3) Risk of political cost due to allegations of corruption.

To be fair to this govt, they did sign a G2G for 36 in 2016 looking at the collusive threat.
I cannot really pinpoint why they ain't signing the rest in a hurry. I do not sense funding as a reason cuz I see a very different kind of govt, with a very different attitude and intent, which has been amply demonstrated in its second term.
*Probably they have it all worked out. We don't know yet.

 

[Sanglamorre]

The MRCA is stuck for the following reasons:
(1) Transcended two governments. There would be a lot of re-negotiations on some unwritten aspects.
(2) Working out Make in India/Quantum of ToT is complicated and time consuming. There is no previous template of this scale and complexity.
(3) Risk of political cost due to allegations of corruption.

To be fair to this govt, they did sign a G2G for 36 in 2016 looking at the collusive threat.
I cannot really pinpoint why they ain't signing the rest in a hurry. I do not sense funding as a reason cuz I see a very different kind of govt, with a very different attitude and intent, which has been amply demonstrated in its second term.

Can you imagine the public outrage, manufactured or genuine if govt signs deal for more Rafales in midst of job loss and economy? People would be crying for doles that were not being doled due to aircraft.

I have a feeling they were supposed to sign more during the induction ceremony. GoI will most likely wait for a more opportune time to sign more.

 

[Bhadra]

Thanks for that... maybe I wasn't clear.. I wasn't advocating giving up the fingers. Was trying to pass on the importance of Chushul.

Any loss is a setback and will lead to degradation of capabilities. IMO you can lose a finger and get it back after some fight. Lot more harder to do that if Chushul goes.

Anyway I do get the point you are making.

When you say Chusul in military terms it is generally taken to mean the Chusul sector < Chusul Road had though by itself is an intermediate objective for offensive operations. There heights around Chusul and the defender would not give up Chusul so easily.
Chusul sector consists of all those features that fall in the way to chusul - Black Top- Bump - Gurung Hill / Magar Hill - Chusul or Moldo Gurung Hill, Magar Hill - Chusul. or Moldo -Mukpari - Magar Hill - Chusul or Rechin La - Rezangla - Magar Hill -Chusul..

Thus the Chusul is a 30km wide and ten to fifteen km deep sector .

Northern bank has a set of fingers and then to Lukung.. ecloned one after the other starting from Srijap.

The Lake itself is so long and about four to six km wide and can be used to launch troops any way - North or south... or towards Lukung..

Complex terrain indeed..

 

[Dessert Storm]

Can you imagine the public outrage, manufactured or genuine if govt signs deal for more Rafales in midst of job loss and economy? People would be crying for doles that were not being doled due to aircraft.

I have a feeling they were supposed to sign more during the induction ceremony. GoI will most likely wait for a more opportune time to sign more.

I had appended this while u were reacting to the post.
*Probably they have it all worked out. We don't know yet.
Yes probably u are right. We won't know either ways, but hoping they have it worked out. Delivery schedule for the current order is by 2021 so maybe .....

 

[ezsasa]

Just a thought:

If in the end there is no military escalation, it would mean that this whole fiasco was a distraction, which in turn means CCP views Indian security establishment as a soft state which is incapable of imposing retaliatory consequences.

 

[Haldilal]

Just a thought:

If in the end there is no military escalation, it would mean that this whole fiasco was a distraction, which in turn means CCP views Indian security establishment as a soft state which is incapable of imposing retaliatory consequences.

Ya'll Nibbiars my Answer.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

Just a thought:

If in the end there is no military escalation, it would mean that this whole fiasco was a distraction, which in turn means CCP views Indian security establishment as a soft state which is incapable of imposing retaliatory consequences.

At the end of it all.. if India retains the dominant position overlooking the Spanggur bowl permanently, threatening to hem in PLA mechanized divisions, then I would say its a good enough military cost imposed on China..

 

[Dessert Storm]

Ya'll Nibbiars my Answer.
View attachment 59234

 

[tarunraju]

"Eva Zheng" is most likely an ISPR paki employee.

You make "ISPR paki employee" sound like an honorable white-collar job where men sit in airconditioned floors not unlike Indian BPO SEZs, and type SM posts all day. On the contrary, the "ISPR paki employee" is a random bored dukaandaar with a rickety PC in a crowded sweaty Peshawar street, who is Alipaid 1 rupee per reply and 5 rupees per tweet. This "5th generation" cottage industry also provides bheek to all the unmarried (or even married) Fatimas who can't step out of their homes and can catfish fantasy lives as hindu teenage girls on Twitter, shilling for congress/tukde-tukde/china/take your pick.

There have been exactly zero instances where ISPR effected any political change in India. Their staple product is to type "tea was fantastic" and hit enter 100 times a day. Bhikarchod qaum.