India-China 2020 Border conflict

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cereal killer

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The only area that matches the strategic significance of Black & Helmet Top is Depsang.
Maybe GOI is planning the exchange of these two with Depsang but Chinks want full Indian withdrawl that maybe the reason talks are going nowhere.
Also GOI is keeping all the news about Helmet Top & Black Top & Depsang under wraps.. So let's wait & stop wrist slitting.
 

ashdoc

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Will India's lack of strategic bombers be a big hindrance in the case of a major war with China, or would it not matter much at all? The Chinese have what, roughly 150 or so?
Bombers are more of relic of that era when bombing accuracy was less and lots of bombs had to be dropped on target so that at least some of them would hit the target. Also they had more range than fighters . Now with modern strike aircraft having more accuracy in bombing and therefore less need to carry the extremely heavy load of bombs and also having greater range they are less necessary .
 

Dessert Storm

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who is requesting these meetings? They are a waste of time.
The Chinese are. Not waste of time really. I am sure our commanders are showing them their 'aukaat' (they were not offered seats during some meetings previously). You know like it used to happen in college days 'pehlay dhulaai kar do unki phir compromise ka drama karney pahuch jaao'.
* Oversimplifying but u get the drift
 

Bhadra

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From what was available in the news around 30th Aug till 1st Sep is that we crossed the LAC. Took up positions on Chinese side.

Blacktop always had Chinese huts and camp, what was gathered in the news was that we have captured some 45 Chinese and ransacked their huts. Our troops also found some porn magazines there.

Of all the positions mentioned only blacktop has Chinese presence, so if we did capture their troops and found porn in their camp it has to be blacktop.

Satellite images will indicate that camps on blacktop are Chinese because there is a path made by Chinese there which leads to those small huts or tents. SFF raced upto those places in all-terrain scooters, so there won't be any road or path visible from Indian side.

Now if the Chinese are developing in strength around blacktop it only means one thing that they are preparing for an operation there to recapture blacktop.

Also the SSF soldier was KIA when he stepped on a mine on blacktop, so we were there on Aug 30, have we gone down, I don't think so.

As per my acessment, Blacktop is with SFF and not Army. SSF occupying something across LAC sends a different message which is far more threatening and symbolic hence the Chinese discomfort.

I could be worng though.
What is the requirement of assessment? It is a question of Knowing. You know or you do not know, What is the need for assessment, How does it matter if SFF is there or ITBP is there till it is with Us,.
If the govt or the Army is unwilling to comment on it , so be it.

Nitin should have said he does not know it rather than saying it is not with us.
So simple ...
 

Tridev123

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There are conflicting reports about our exact positions on the ground leading to endless debate.
But the biggest positive point has been missed.
Just even one month back many critics of the Government had berated our supposedly timid approach to Chinese aggression.

Now when we have paid the Chinese back in the same coin and rudely surprised the PLA the critics say that what we have done is not enough. We have started quibbling over peaks. While I am not a ruling party spokesman I find it surprising that the Opposition has not congratulated the Army for wresting back the initiative and giving us bargaining points.

I personally would like our Army to capture more than 1000 square kilometres of Tibet (there are reports that the PLA this time had encroached upon appx 1000 sq. km of Indian land) at the minimum. I think the Army is working on it and it is work in progress.

If the Chinese still do not see reality and are unwilling to go back in the newly encroached areas especially Pangong Tso and Depsang then the Indian Army should slowly increase the capture of Chinese controlled Tibet week by week. The longer the Chinese delay an peace agreement the more territory they should lose.
Of course China will try to do the same to us. We should try to block their efforts and increase our leverage over them.

We should keep on increasing the pressure on the PLA to force them to make concessions.
 

Dessert Storm

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I gave an example, Yes it has been around and our troops also do it.
If our troops also do it, then who were you giving your sermons to. Not me obviously.
Yesterday's post reproduced for you.
Learn from you enemies, this is what Indian philosophy says. If they have done something smart learn from them, there is nothing wrong in that. They occupied heights on Kargil to choke Kargil Leh highway, India is trying to do similar thing on the Spangur gap.

Before giving the advice do read yourself.
 
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mahesh

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If we have worked for weeks on our current plan to push china back, we should not give time for china to rework on their plan.
 

Dessert Storm

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Depsang is the real worry. After what happened in 2013 proactive steps should have been taken to secure those areas. Even if the Chinese withdraw from Pangong as part of a deal I feel they may continue to sit in Depsang. It is of more strategic importance to them.
Even if what you say is true. IA has options to bring their so called places of strategic importance to a naught.
* What makes you think that de-escalation (if any) would not be made on our terms.
 

daya

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Forget RaGa . The timing for such a leak was not right but it’s a pertinently question from a non political view. If true It’s a hangover from colonial times. There are lot of colonial traditions that need to be done away with. But then again RaGa is the last person that should be asking that question as successive congress govts didn’t do anything about it.

I feel there are some major problem reforms needed in the armed forces across the board.
The question raised by RaGa may seem trivial, but with due regards, I would like to say that this discrimination persists everywhere. These traditions have been brought by the GoRa but we are lacking the courage to do away with these practices. As per my personal opinion, the recruitment to initial entry cadre only can bring the parity. No direct recruitment except to the post of Sipahi/Clerk.
 

Shashank Nayak

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18 km deep? Where? The Hindu is RaGa's mouthpiece and will trot out gas just as Pappu wants. Here's where the Chinese are in the map below. They are amassing near the LAC but haven't crossed it. So where are these 18 kms deep that the Dindu says the Chinese have come into Indian territory?

View attachment 59096

Satellite images analyses by Col Vinayak Bhat, a satellite imagery analyst.
But Bottleneck where they say the Chinese intrusion happened is to the south of DBO airstrip.
Below is the rough depiction of Bottleneck and the patrolling points to which India has supposedly lost access (from a quint article)

thequint_2020-06_29884dbc-54fd-4180-b39d-ad6f5ec9d590_Land_Grab_1.jpeg

 
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Bhadra

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Forget RaGa . The timing for such a leak was not right but it’s a pertinently question from a non political view. If true It’s a hangover from colonial times. There are lot of colonial traditions that need to be done away with. But then again RaGa is the last person that should be asking that question as successive congress govts didn’t do anything about it.

I feel there are some major problem reforms needed in the armed forces across the board.
When it comes to issue of rations one has to be very specific about it. No Theory. I really do not understand what is the colonial hangover? Are Indian officers eating beef or Pork as the main meat item issued by GoI? Is wine an item of rations ??

Firstly ration as a free issue is of recent origin and there is no hangover anywhere. Priro to 1986 officers paid for Ther rations. Pre-independence they were British and used to eat what they liked. After 1986 scales have been worked based on calorific requirements and taste.

At a time when such a big military threat has been posed by China on the border, there are thousands of important issues which a member of Parliament should draw attention to- tentage and barracks, ECCI, shortage of ammunition, shortage of guns, aircraft, infrastructure, funding etc rather than being a chatak chutia and throwing a stone at hornet's nest.
Ex-Servicemen Welfare is part of MoD. Pappu should raise why Commander Sharma was beaten up by political goons associated with his friendly party rather than exhibiting traits of a super Chutia..
 
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SavageKing456

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Hmm so lots of veterans are claiming we have occupied black top but sattelite images say something else.
I'll believe veterans bcz the chinese camps could be of SFF too.
Pla might be beaten on the night of 30th August
And SFF might've occupied it.
 

geoatpenn

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Now when we have paid the Chinese back in the same coin and rudely surprised the PLA the critics say that what we have done is not enough. We have started quibbling over peaks. While I am not a ruling party spokesman I find it surprising that the Opposition has not congratulated the Army for wresting back the initiative and giving us bargaining points.
I am sorry.. what exactly is the opposition supposed to commend? have they been taken into confidence into anything that is happening at the border.. is this being discussed in the parliament. Now I am aware that not everything can be discussed in the public domain, but if conflicting news are being thrown about from every news outlet and internet warriors in twitter.. how exactly can anyone be sure of ANYTHING at all? and yes.. the govt was timid, probably is still timid to an extent.. and the sole reason for this mess
 

daya

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Hmm so lots of veterans are claiming we have occupied black top but sattelite images say something else.
I'll believe veterans bcz the chinese camps could be of SFF too.
Pla might be beaten on the night of 30th August
And SFF might've occupied it.
Yes, You are right.. It is not supposed that IA should bright their tents and after uprooting the Chinese camp, IA should erect their own camp, It is quite a natural move that IA should uproot the chinks and occupy the structures. The satellite will continue to show the tents/camps as it was held earlier by the Chinese.
 

mokoman

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Ok.
but what's your view on RaGa's recent comment/rhetoric regarding food of army officers/jawans, please.

(sorry guys)
Timing is really weird.

Saw Chinese posts of a gif of Indian soldier crying.

The Chinese claim he is crying for food,that IA is not feeding him.

Its a common tactic by a pakistanis as well , take vid of soldiers crying over lost martyrs and then put some false narrative on it.
 

Cheran

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Can anyone clarify if Y Junction, PP10,11,12 & 13 falls under the greyzone i.e. claimed by both India & China or is it an area that was undisputed before & now PLA has access to?
 
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