IAF MiG-21 shoots down Pakistani F-16

[Armand2REP]

And you know that the F-16 acquired a lock first how again?

No, a stupid strategy would be to start wasting your missiles and then be pounced on by Pakistani aircraft when you have no missiles left. And the one who fires first doesn't win first, the one who gets a quality lock and decides to fire within a high kill probability while maintaining course correction is the one that wins. You argument is like saying whoever just wildly shoots a pistol wins a gunfight when in reality the one that take one well places shot with good sight picture, trigger control and grip is the one that wins a gunfight, not the moron that could not hit the broad side of a barn.

The SU-30s were badly outnumbered. They were enough to act as a deterrence that caused Pakistani to abandon their miss adventure. Again there is no point in wasting missiles especially when you are outnumbered. The Indian side had some major issues but so did the Pakistani side. Ideally the Indians should have been better prepared and launched more SU-30s as well as used ground defenses but that is a different topic all together. The Indian side acted wisely with what they had at the time minus the Mig-21 charging into Pakistani airspace.

If Indian aircraft fired missiles into Pakistan the Pakistanis would be parading the wreckage claiming they downed like 100 SU-30s.

That version of AMRAAM won't fire without target acquisition data. It is not manually programmable so there is no blind firing of that missile.

A stupid strategy is one that doesn't exist, like firing a blind volley of AMRAAMs that cannot be fired blindly. You will not get a lock if there is insufficient data to get a high kill probability.

MKI pilots were outnumbered so according to you they are what? What are you trying to say? The Wing Commander didn't have any problem going in the thick of it. The MKIs have the radar to sit back and take pot shots at them yet failed to engage.

So you are afraid to act because of what Paki propoganda machine will do... sad.

 

[Enquirer]

Here's some interesting lies and 'pulling of wool on eyes' that Pakis have been indulging in....

It was announced in the senate that Wing Commander Nouman Ali Khan shot down the Su-30MKI & also that he accompanied Air Chief on March 23rd Pakistan Day fly past.

But if you examine the 'vanity' video released by PAF, Wing Commander Nouman Ali Khan is NOT the co-pilot; some other dude is 'geared' up as the pilot! You can clearly see that the Air Chief & the other dude are wearing harnesses AND not wearing hats (because they'll wear helmets inside the aircraft)

Also, when they announced the pilots names (5 in all...in 4 jets) during the fly past, everyones FULL name was announced....BUT for Wing Commander NOUMAN (no last name announced). WHY? So, there's possible deniability at some point in time that this Nouman is different from that Nouman if ever caught at some future date?

Real Wing Commander Nouman Ali Khan(from previous years)? Or did he exist at all before March'2019??

 

[Craigs]

That version of AMRAAM won't fire without target acquisition data. It is not manually programmable so there is no blind firing of that missile.

A stupid strategy is one that doesn't exist, like firing a blind volley of AMRAAMs that cannot be fired blindly. You will not get a lock if there is insufficient data to get a high kill probability.

MKI pilots were outnumbered so according to you they are what? What are you trying to say? The Wing Commander didn't have any problem going in the thick of it. The MKIs have the radar to sit back and take pot shots at them yet failed to engage.

So you are afraid to act because of what Paki propoganda machine will do... sad.

Maybe the IAF was working to a plan to make the PAF break the ROE. Once they had the requisite undeniable proof with no possibility of plausible deniability which is only possible if only one side fires the BVRAAMs then the game is all stitched up. From now every time PAF hears a sonic boom or RWR screeching the pilots will be shitting their pants and there is jack shit they can do about it.

This is why PAF and Pak gov is on perpetual NOTAM and in the meantime maybe trying some back channel negotiation to restore some form of CBM.

 

[Craigs]

Here's some interesting lies and 'pulling of wool on eyes' that Pakis have been indulging in....

It was announced in the senate that Wing Commander Nouman Ali Khan shot down the Su-30MKI & also that he accompanied Air Chief on March 23rd Pakistan Day fly past.

But if you examine the 'vanity' video released by PAF, Wing Commander Nouman Ali Khan is NOT the co-pilot; some other dude is 'geared' up as the pilot! You can clearly see that the Air Chief & the other dude are wearing harnesses AND not wearing hats (because they'll wear helmets inside the aircraft)

Also, when they announced the pilots names (5 in all...in 4 jets) during the fly past, everyones FULL name was announced....BUT for Wing Commander NOUMAN (no last name announced). WHY? So, there's possible deniability at some point in time that this Nouman is different from that Nouman if ever caught at some future date?

View attachment 33591 View attachment 33592 View attachment 33593


Real Wing Commander Nouman Ali Khan(from previous years)? Or did he exist at all before March'2019??

Maybe he grew a mush and got some hair plugs.

 

[Enquirer]

Maybe he grew a mush and got some hair plugs.

Do the two of them look the same to you????

Also to be noted is that despite the claim to have shot down TWO jets, only one pilot was credited with the kill.
A week later, almost like an afterthought & apologetically, Qureshi announced the SECOND pilot's name Nouman Ali Khan!!

 

[vishwaprasad]

Pakis are sporting IAF kill patches showing MKI and BISON on it... isn't it an official declaration by them of shooting down MKI?? If this is true then its really worrisome for us as they have shown their technological superiority over us... Prime minister's speech saying country feeling absence of Rafales speaks this in many ways... even our ACM repeated the same about Rafales.... This is clear indication that something wrong has happened which is not being made public... ( I wish no MKI is shot down).... But this has proven that their F-16 are more than match for MKI's.... we should hurry for Rafales and that too in numbers.....

 

[IndiaRising]

Pakis are sporting IAF kill patches showing MKI and BISON on it... isn't it an official declaration by them of shooting down MKI?? If this is true then its really worrisome for us as they have shown their technological superiority over us... Prime minister's speech saying country feeling absence of Rafales speaks this in many ways... even our ACM repeated the same about Rafales.... This is clear indication that something wrong has happened which is not being made public... ( I wish no MKI is shot down).... But this has proven that their F-16 are more than match for MKI's.... we should hurry for Rafales and that too in numbers.....

They still believe that Alam chap shot down 5 jets in less than 30 seconds. Pakistan is a black hole of misinformation. To trust them is foolishness

 

[Enquirer]

Pakis are sporting IAF kill patches showing MKI and BISON on it... isn't it an official declaration by them of shooting down MKI?? If this is true then its really worrisome for us as they have shown their technological superiority over us... Prime minister's speech saying country feeling absence of Rafales speaks this in many ways... even our ACM repeated the same about Rafales.... This is clear indication that something wrong has happened which is not being made public... ( I wish no MKI is shot down).... But this has proven that their F-16 are more than match for MKI's.... we should hurry for Rafales and that too in numbers.....

Dude! Pakis live in a swamp of falsehoods - from the time they’re born to the time they die.
It is simply stupid to try to convince Pakis of the truth!
The whole world knows that Pakis are pathological liars; everyone’s given up on them!

 

[mayfair]

Pakis are sporting IAF kill patches showing MKI and BISON on it... isn't it an official declaration by them of shooting down MKI?? If this is true then its really worrisome for us as they have shown their technological superiority over us... Prime minister's speech saying country feeling absence of Rafales speaks this in many ways... even our ACM repeated the same about Rafales.... This is clear indication that something wrong has happened which is not being made public... ( I wish no MKI is shot down).... But this has proven that their F-16 are more than match for MKI's.... we should hurry for Rafales and that too in numbers.....

Nice one..let's see how many you reel in...

 

[DivineHeretic]

Pakis are sporting IAF kill patches showing MKI and BISON on it... isn't it an official declaration by them of shooting down MKI?? If this is true then its really worrisome for us as they have shown their technological superiority over us... Prime minister's speech saying country feeling absence of Rafales speaks this in many ways... even our ACM repeated the same about Rafales.... This is clear indication that something wrong has happened which is not being made public... ( I wish no MKI is shot down).... But this has proven that their F-16 are more than match for MKI's.... we should hurry for Rafales and that too in numbers.....

51 Squadron and IAF command has officially crertified that Abhinandan shot down an F-16. As such it'll appear on patches of the 51 Squadron in time.

As far as an MKI going down is concerned, all MKIs, inclusive of their pilots are accounted for. As for 3rd party evidence, PAF claims that the downed MKI fell in Indian airspace. May we remind you which side of the LOC there is an ongoing internet denial campaign

 

[vishwaprasad]

They still believe that Alam chap shot down 5 jets in less than 30 seconds. Pakistan is a black hole of misinformation. To trust them is foolishness

We cannot deny they came over Indian Kashmir, stayed there unchallenged for more than 5 mins in spite of MKI and M2K patrolling the area, shot down MIG -21 (May be Flanker too) our pilot got captured and we had to request them to send our pilot back.... is this what air superiority we were proud of from so many years???

We should learn to give a credit where its due... Just look at their guts.... They know we have fleet of 200 plus Flankers along with other air crafts still they came and challenged us and unfortunately gave us a blood nose on that day.... Our reaction till date???? Nothing

 

[Neptune]

Pakis are sporting IAF kill patches showing MKI and BISON on it... isn't it an official declaration by them of shooting down MKI?? If this is true then its really worrisome for us as they have shown their technological superiority over us... Prime minister's speech saying country feeling absence of Rafales speaks this in many ways... even our ACM repeated the same about Rafales.... This is clear indication that something wrong has happened which is not being made public... ( I wish no MKI is shot down).... But this has proven that their F-16 are more than match for MKI's.... we should hurry for Rafales and that too in numbers.....

They can put on patches with F-22s and UFOs and it wouldn't mean shit .. The Pakistani Air Force is full of shit and have a history of pulling these pathetic amateur stunts for propaganda and basically blackmail. They have credited dozens of phantom kills to their pilots. Some of the version of their stories are cartoon like such as one pilot shooting down 5 Indian aircraft in a very short time or Pakistani pilots downing Israeli aircraft.

Remember they initially denied they lost an F-16 to Soviets in Afghanistan then made some bullshit stories up how they shot down Mig-23s only to be humiliated when it was shown that those Mig-23s never were shot down and that that Pakistani pilots were outflown by a far inferior aircraft. One of the Soviet pilots was about to shove a missile up the ass of one of the Pakistani pilots but was forbidden due to rules of engagement which he obviously was very upset about.

The Pakistanis hyped up the incident and spung the story. When the reality was very different. There is the Pakistani version of events and there is reality.

If an SU-30'crashed or was shot down the evidence would have come out by now especially in such a populated country as India. If Pakistan did shoot down an MKI they would brag more and show radar data, HUD footage or satellite imagery. Yet none was presented and no third partY has located any wreckage of any kind. The Pakistanis are up to their same pathetic dirty tricks. Those people have an inferiority complex and a perpetual impulse to lie uncontrollably.

 

[vishwaprasad]

They can put on patches with F-22s and UFOs and it wouldn't mean shit .. The Pakistani Air Force is full of shit and have a history of pulling these pathetic amateur stunts for propaganda and basically blackmail. They have credited dozens of phantom kills to their pilots. Some of the version of their stories are cartoon like such as one pilot shooting down 5 Indian aircraft in a very short time or Pakistani pilots downing Israeli aircraft.

Remember they initially denied they lost an F-16 to Soviets in Afghanistan then made some bullshit stories up how they shot down Mig-23s only to be humiliated when it was shown that those Mig-23s never were shot down and that that Pakistani pilots were outflown by a far inferior aircraft. One of the Soviet pilots was about to shove a missile up the ass of one of the Pakistani pilots but was forbidden due to rules of engagement which he obviously was very upset about.

The Pakistanis hyped up the incident and spung the story. When the reality was very different. There is the Pakistani version of events and there is reality.

If an SU-30'crashed or was shot down the evidence would have come out by now especially in such a populated country as India. If Pakistan did shoot down an MKI they would brag more and show radar data, HUD footage or satellite imagery. Yet none was presented and no third partY has located any wreckage of any kind. The Pakistanis are up to their same pathetic dirty tricks. Those people have an inferiority complex and a perpetual impulse to lie uncontrollably.

In that case aren't we too lying??? where is the proof of F-16 kill by IAF?

At the end of the day it was a bad day for us.... Even if I accept that no MKI shot down it cannot be denied that F-16 had successful radar lock and made MKI helpless.... Proves F-16 is technically more than match for MKI...

 

[White Wolf]

We cannot deny they came over Indian Kashmir, stayed there unchallenged for more than 5 mins in spite of MKI and M2K patrolling the area, shot down MIG -21 (May be Flanker too) our pilot got captured and we had to request them to send our pilot back.... is this what air superiority we were proud of from so many years???

We should learn to give a credit where its due... Just look at their guts.... They know we have fleet of 200 plus Flankers along with other air crafts still they came and challenged us and unfortunately gave us a blood nose on that day.... Our reaction till date???? Nothing

No flanker went down that day dude. Do you really believe that it's possible to hide the wreckage of such a huge plane? If it really went down them some Kasmiri would have posted that video with uttermost excitement just like they did with the Budgam chopper crash.
The Mig-21 was shot down in Pakistan territory where an Armada of 24 jets were waiting for the bait.
As for the Rafale thing, that's basically Modi's gimmick to take a dig at Raga.
As for Dhanoa, he said "once we Rafale, they won't dare to come near the border" that's true as the Meteor BVR is more capacnc then those R-77's.

 

[bose]

Pakis are sporting IAF kill patches showing MKI and BISON on it... isn't it an official declaration by them of shooting down MKI?? If this is true then its really worrisome for us as they have shown their technological superiority over us... Prime minister's speech saying country feeling absence of Rafales speaks this in many ways... even our ACM repeated the same about Rafales.... This is clear indication that something wrong has happened which is not being made public... ( I wish no MKI is shot down).... But this has proven that their F-16 are more than match for MKI's.... we should hurry for Rafales and that too in numbers.....

Bhai, It seems that you are too much affected by Pakistani propaganda... I have spend [ not a member] 10 years in their bloody forum ... they are full of fake bravado and big mounting ...

there is a saying "empty vessels sound much" ... this is what Pakistanis are....

Please read some history specially of the 1965 war ... Pakistanis said they will reach New Delhi in 48 hours on their Patton Tanks [ considered best in the world at that point of time]... Please visit Patton Nagar in Punjab and see that graveyard of Patton Tanks there after the battle of Asal Uttar ...

Be careful in reading the Pakistanis PoV they are meant for creating doubts in your mind ...

Pakistanis are very very scared at this point of time ... they did not even in their dreams thought that India will go for a direct attack on their land ...

do not take anything from Pakistani propaganda ...

 

[vishwaprasad]

No flanker went down that day dude. Do you really believe that it's possible to hide the wreckage of such a huge plane? If it really went down them some Kasmiri would have posted that video with uttermost excitement just like they did with the Budgam chopper crash.
The Mig-21 was shot down in Pakistan territory where an Armada of 24 jets were waiting for the bait.
As for the Rafale thing, that's basically Modi's gimmick to take a dig at Raga.
As for Dhanoa, he said "once we Rafale, they won't dare to come near the border" that's true as the Meteor BVR is more capacnc then those R-77's.

So as per your last statement you agree that F-16 will dare come and cross border in the absence of Rafales... For MKI they have nothing to fear..... This is why I said we need to hurry for Rafales and that too in numbers

 

[vishwaprasad]

Bhai, It seems that you are too much affected by Pakistani propaganda... I have spend [ not a member] 10 years in their bloody forum ... they are full of fake bravado and big mounting ...

there is a saying "empty vessels sound much" ... this is what Pakistanis are....

Please read some history specially of the 1965 war ... Pakistanis said they will reach New Delhi in 48 hours on their Patton Tanks [ considered best in the world at that point of time]... Please visit Patton Nagar in Punjab and see that graveyard of Patton Tanks there after the battle of Asal Uttar ...

Be careful in reading the Pakistanis PoV they are meant for creating doubts in your mind ...

Pakistanis are very very scared at this point of time ... they did not even in their dreams thought that India will go for a direct attack on their land ...

do not take anything from Pakistani propaganda ...

I know bro but seems we too have lied this time just like Pakis.... where is downed F-16???

 

[Neptune]

In that case aren't we too lying??? where is the proof of F-16 kill by IAF?

At the end of the day it was a bad day for us.... Even if I accept that no MKI shot down it cannot be denied that F-16 had successful radar lock and made MKI helpless.... Proves F-16 is technically more than match for MKI...

Firstly I'm not Indian. Secondly I have questioned to varasity of the Indian claim in regards to downing an F-16. The difference is that India doesn't have a history of outright propaganda such as Pakistan nor does India have blackouts or hides aircraft losses such as Pakistan. Perhaps the Indian pilots thought he shot down an F-16, perhaps he did, at this time we don't know and may never know due to Pakistani lies.

The SU-30MKIs were outnumbered and defeated AMRAAMS, they also thwarted the entire Pakistani operation which resulted in the Pakistanis runnng away and abandoning their mission. As for F-16 verses SU-30MKI, the F-16 as well as JF-17 blunders counld not do shit to the MKIs. The Indian side was poorly prepared and should have scrambled more Sukhois and went on the offensive but that is a different story. The fact that Pakistani pilots lobbing AMRAAMS like amateurs proves nothing, it certainly doesn't prove that the F-16 outmatched the Sukhoi. We don't even know how many missiles the Sukhois were carrying. Remember SU-30MkIs have faced F-16s, F-15s, Tornados and Typhoons and did well. There is no reason to believe that Pakistan F-16s were somehow superior to American and European aircraft that Indians have faced and defeated numerous times.

The fact is even the old Mig-21 flew 7km inside Pakistani airspace before it was shot down/detected. This is just as embarrassing for Pakistan considering they had AWACS and dozens of other aircraft airborne as well. The fact is SU-30s could have probably shot missiles at the Pakistani aircraft as well but chose not to, perhaps they waited to get a higher probability missile launch, perhaps they waited for F-16s to deplete their weapons and fuel and attack when the F-16s could not sustain a fight, perhaps they waited for reinforcements.

There are many reasons but to play into Pakistani propaganda machine is exactly what they want. Those people are equivalent to North Korea with their propaganda and blackouts. No one should take them seriously based on their track record of lies. What we know is that a Mig-21 got shot down and Pakistanis had trouble tracking it and probably should have shot it down well inside Indian airspace if they weren't so incompetent of course. We also know all of Pakistanis AMRAAMS failed which shows that the SU-30s and their pilots performed their job. The Pakistani side had dozenans of aircraft supported by AWACS in which they caught India off guard and what was the end result? A botched operation on the Pakistani side, failure to inflict zero causalities inside India despite numerical superiority and only one Mig-21 kill and even that was inside Pakistani airspace. Yea those F-16s and AWACS are so good that they could not hit shit until a single Mig-21 was on the ass of an F-16 inside Pakistani airspace.

Based on the recent Pakistani incompetence, if India was to mount a serious strike on Pakistan with the intention of destroying Pakistan aircraft it would be the Pakistanis suffering heavy casualties.

 

[White Wolf]

So as per your last statement you agree that F-16 will dare come and cross border in the absence of Rafales... For MKI they have nothing to fear..... This is why I said we need to hurry for Rafales and that too in numbers

Bro, I agree they did come inside, but you are ignoring the fact that 24 jets were escorting them which remained behind the LOC waiting for the bait. If are ignoring those 24 jets hiding behind the Line of Control.

 

[Rahul Singh]

I know bro but seems we too have lied this time just like Pakis.... where is downed F-16???

Where is the second pilot that Gafoora mentioned about during his first brief?