IAF MiG-21 shoots down Pakistani F-16

[Immanuel]

Shekar Gupta for one didn't or doesn't know what happened, no body does. To take him seriously on anything is like willingly wanting to shove own head up own ass.

 

[Armand2REP]

Bullshit! BVRAAMs travel at Mach 4-5. That means maintaining lock on an aircraft from 100+km away for 30-45 seconds... doable (& if we didn't have AWACS available despite doing an airstrike inside Pakistan the earlier night, that's bad judgement on IAF command's part).

They succeeded in getting local numerical superiority. That's how battles are won!
They didn't manage to succeed. Because they are coward imbeciles. But that doesn't negate the fact that they achieved ideal scenario.

And this French shill is right when he says this too, technically.


Nor were Indian SAM systems waiting at LOC for PAF's retaliatory sorties... Ground assets could have engaged the moment they crossed over, before any IAF jets reached.

If the sensors weren't able to defeat the DRFM jammers of the F-16s then you weren't ever getting a lock.

Did you ever get your universal data links for MKI?

MKI is so good it shouldn't matter if it was an ideal scenario. They are supposed to murder anything Pakistan has.

Do you have universal data links on the SAMs too?

 

[Bleh]

If the sensors weren't able to defeat the DRFM jammers of the F-16s then you weren't ever getting a lock.

Did you ever get your universal data links for MKI?

MKI is so good it shouldn't matter if it was an ideal scenario. They are supposed to murder anything Pakistan has.

Do you have universal data links on the SAMs too?

That's exactly the kind of data India govt. likes to release to the public...

 

[Armand2REP]

That's exactly the kind of data India govt. likes to release to the public...

I would think an order for universal data links would be public information.

 

[Neil]

For everyone asking for that missing piece of evidence.

 

[Armand2REP]

For everyone asking for that missing piece of evidence.

Tom Cooper (born 1970) is an Austrian author, journalist, historian and illustrator with an interest in modern military aviation

I have never heard of an Austrian with a name like that, unless he is working at a Pakistani call centre.

 

[Neil]

Tom Cooper (born 1970) is an Austrian author, journalist, historian and illustrator with an interest in modern military aviation

I have never heard of an Austrian with a name like that, unless he is working at a Pakistani call centre.

Cooper has authored and co-authored 43 books, the first of which offered exclusive insights into the operational history of the Iranian and Iraqi air forces during the Iran–Iraq War(fought 1980–1988).

Cooper has published nearly 1,000 articles in specialized press and online, including magazines like Air & Space Smithsonian, AirEnthusiast, Air Force Magazine, AirForces Monthly, Air Combat, AirPower, Combat Aircraft, Le Fana de l'Aviation, Fliegerrevue & Fliegerrevue Extra, Flight Journal, International Air Power Review, Iranian Aviation Review, Jane's Defence Weekly, Modern War, SDI, Truppendienst, WarIsBoring.com, and World Air Power Journal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Cooper_(author)

 

[Spindrift]

Tom Cooper (born 1970) is an Austrian author, journalist, historian and illustrator with an interest in modern military aviation

I have never heard of an Austrian with a name like that, unless he is working at a Pakistani call centre.

Probably has English or American ancestry.

 

[Arsalan123]

Some of Indian members are saying that pf fired missiles from 30 to 40 km.i think paf fired the missiles just to keep su-30s away from mig 21 and mirages.i am not sure about mirages.i think paf pilots wanted su-30s to stay away from migs.they wanted to kill migs and not su-30s.they did it intentionally just to keep su-30s busy.where were other indian jets during dogfight? Nobody knows.

 

[indiatester]

Some of Indian members are saying that pf fired missiles from 30 to 40 km.i think paf fired the missiles just to keep su-30s away from mig 21 and mirages.i am not sure about mirages.i think paf pilots wanted su-30s to stay away from migs.they wanted to kill migs and not su-30s.they did it intentionally just to keep su-30s busy.where were other indian jets during dogfight? Nobody knows.

Those are expensive missiles man.

In early 2006, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) ordered 500 AIM-120C-5 AMRAAM missiles as part of a $650 million F-16 ammunition deal to equip its F-16C/D Block 50/52+ and F-16A/B Block 15 MLU fighters. The PAF got the first three F-16C/D Block 50/52+ aircraft on July 3, 2010 and first batch of AMRAAMs on July 26, 2010.

$1.3 million each. If they used 5 of them thats an amount of $6.5 million. Thats more expensive than a Mig-21!

 

[Anikastha]

Some of Indian members are saying that pf fired missiles from 30 to 40 km.i think paf fired the missiles just to keep su-30s away from mig 21 and mirages.i am not sure about mirages.i think paf pilots wanted su-30s to stay away from migs.they wanted to kill migs and not su-30s.they did it intentionally just to keep su-30s busy.where were other indian jets during dogfight? Nobody knows.

If I get into fight with a group , whom would I knock out first ?
Tall , heavy built guy or weak , pale guy?
Ofcourse the former one. If I knock out big dude then everybody else will back off. Its like sending message. I have knocked out strongest member of your group to stay away from me.
Why did PAF decided to engage MIG21...nobody knows

 

[Arsalan123]

If I get into fight with a group , whom would I knock out first ?
Tall , heavy built guy or weak , pale guy?
Ofcourse the former one. If I knock out big dude then everybody else will back off. Its like sending message. I have knocked out strongest member of your group to stay away from me.
Why did PAF decided to engage MIG21...nobody knows

True.i think su-30s were in large numbers probably 5 to 8 jets and mig -21 was probably alone but we still don't know the reality.

 

[Anikastha]

True.i think su-30s were in large numbers probably 5 to 8 jets and mig -21 was probably alone but we still don't know the reality.

4 SU30MKI , 2 each mirage 2000 and MIG21B

 

[bose]

Some of Indian members are saying that pf fired missiles from 30 to 40 km.i think paf fired the missiles just to keep su-30s away from mig 21 and mirages.i am not sure about mirages.i think paf pilots wanted su-30s to stay away from migs.they wanted to kill migs and not su-30s.they did it intentionally just to keep su-30s busy.where were other indian jets during dogfight? Nobody knows.

Mig-21 Bisons are for quick and fast interceptions and not for dog fights ... It will always the Mig-21's that will go forward for the quick kills with situational co ordinates of enemy fighters getting from the other IAF fighters like SU - 30 MKI's or Mirage 2000s ...

Till Mig-21's are there in the IAF inventory it will be used that way ... It will always be touch and go situation ...

 

[itsme]

4 SU30MKI , 2 each mirage 2000 and MIG21B

2 Migs, the F16s dint see the Migs until later.

 

[Anikastha]

2 Migs, the F16s dint see the Migs until later.

Some Pakistani members claiming that they shot Mig21b with JF17. I asked him question " How come JF17 installed with chinese avionics was able to fire Western missile.
Western Weapons are compatible with western Avionics only. Its not like installing BMW engine into Suzuki vehicle and expecting suzuki to perform like BMW.
They came up with wonderful answer.
F16 has American Avionics so we installed american avionics onto JF17 for this specific mission.
I asked " Specific Mission"...SO you guys came prepared for a fight with weapons given to you as "FOR DEFENCE ONLY" "NO OFFENSIVE ROLE" which is clear violation. When did Americans gave you permission to install American Avionics on Non-american Aircraft. If this was true then US would have banged them the moment the got thought. So JF17 firing AMRAAM is out of equation.
We took russian permission to install Isreali Avionics on SU30MKI and Ilushin ( AWACS).

 

[Bhadra]

The previous NDA government which was in power in 2002 had a golden opportunity to manufacture as many mirage 2000- 5s as they wanted as France was going to manufacture rafale and was willing to shift the entire mirage 2000 production line to India . We could have got 200 or more Mirage 2000s if we wanted . But we haven't got a single fighter of MRCA category thanks to dragging on decision making .

Could you tell us who blocked that proposal ? What was the position/ stand of HALand DRDO on that proposal ?

 

[Sridhar_TN]

Ummmm those are still parts of 1 R73 and 1 R77. How does this prove anything? Why don't you line em all up if you did indeed recover 4 AAMs?

And explain this shit to me: This is shot by your citizens over POK. Slow it down to .25x and watch at the 8 sec mark. An object gets jettisoned followed by two ejections. Guess what that object is oh great invincible PAF F-16 fanboy , that shit is the canopy! Part of the ACES II ejection sequence. No Indian jets employ such a system .. :biggrin2: Forget your pilots, they're worth shit anyway, at the least tell us what happened to that poor canopy.

that's an ACES ejection system. the twin booms are basically a 2 seat ejection system. bandha bol raha hai "do" in the video-,meaning 2.

To put all speculations to rest, Uncle Sam should come out with an assessment(wink wink) of how many F-16's they are going to service this year

 

[Sridhar_TN]

The problem here is if the IAF came out and made public a minute by minute sequence of the ecounter. would be fantastic. I would be more inclined to believe the IAF than the PAF-fact(not because of patriotism or anything, but the sheer fact of historical accurate reporting).

Then again, I do not know if that would be allowed

But question is how did the F-16's get a lock and fox fire multiple AMRAAM's? Why weren't our MKI's able to respond with our missiles? As soon as paf entered Indian airspace, we reserve the right to shoot them down if I'm not mistaken. Or did the PAF lock on to our MKI's inside Pakistani airspace? I still don't have the whole picture.

 

[Sridhar_TN]

I say, Upgrade all Sukhois with Derby BVR missiles, AESA radar and new datalinks for Integrated Air command. Litter the area near LOC and LAC on both fronts with QRSAM's. Literally litter it. Targeting radars can be few, but litter the area with launchers. As soon as they cross into our airspace, launch without needing approvals. All radar tracks and engagements release to public. The LOC and LAC should be the most densely air defended area in the world. QRSAM's, BARAK's, Aakash, other cheaper SAM's. Just litter them like a minefield along the borders.