IAF MiG-21 shoots down Pakistani F-16

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Rahul Singh

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The best part is one of them said that they saw a parachute with Indian flag (probably referring to the tricoloured parachute) coming down and that's how he knew the pilot was Indian!!

The best part is that the parachute accompanying the Martin-Baker seat is actually tricoloured, whereas the bISON parachute has only orange and white!!

There are lots of lies and coverups by Shitistan.
Martin Baker ejection seat's parachute.



Long-bearded Pilot with sweat guard on the head would give an impression of a Sikh at least to an Ahmad and Abduls. These people never expected their own getting shot down. So they never did second-guessing. Colour scheme turned out to be more than convincing for them.
 

Kazah

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From shekhar gupta's recent article on IAF an PAF dogfight

*In the Rajouri-Mendhar sector air skirmish a day after the Indian Air Forces’ (IAF) successful Balakot strikes, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) was able to create surprise and local superiority — technological and numerical — in a chosen battlefield. It struck in daylight when least expected, and perfectly timed to attack the changeover of IAF AWAC patrols. The outnumbered IAF pilots (12 aircraft of three vastly different types), scrambled from various bases, and showed the presence of mind not to walk into the ambush set for them, but they failed to deliver a deterrent punishment on PAF.

* Four Sukhoi-30s, the IAF’s most powerful air-superiority aircraft, were involved in the melee at beyond visual range (BVR). They were surprised by the PAF F-16s firing their American AMRAAM missiles from so far that their own radar/computer/missiles were not able to give them a “firing solution”. Translated: India’s best fighter, which constitutes half of the IAF’s combat force, was outranged and outgunned.

* Fortunately, two of the upgraded Mirage-2000s were on patrol. These have new French missiles (MICA, or Missile d’Interception, de combat d’autodefense), which are the exact peers of the F-16/AMRAAM. They were able to lock on to some of the PAF planes, which panicked into dropping their South African origin, stand-off weapons (SOWs) in a hurry, mostly missing the targets. Nevertheless, one fell in the middle of the Nowshera brigade headquarters compound. It was a closer call than we think.

* Surprised, and outnumbered, the IAF scrambled six MiG-21 Bisons from Srinagar and Awantipur. Since these climbed in the shadow of the Pir Panjal range, the PAF AWAC failed to detect them. Their sudden appearance at the battlefield upset the PAF plan. This was fortuitous.


It is only because of the IAF’s good training, situational awareness, and some luck that this audacious PAF mission failed. No ground target was hit. Its larger objective of luring vastly outnumbered and outranged IAF jets into a pre-set “killing zone” was the bigger failure.
 

vampyrbladez

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From shekhar gupta's recent article on IAF an PAF dogfight

*In the Rajouri-Mendhar sector air skirmish a day after the Indian Air Forces’ (IAF) successful Balakot strikes, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) was able to create surprise and local superiority — technological and numerical — in a chosen battlefield. It struck in daylight when least expected, and perfectly timed to attack the changeover of IAF AWAC patrols. The outnumbered IAF pilots (12 aircraft of three vastly different types), scrambled from various bases, and showed the presence of mind not to walk into the ambush set for them, but they failed to deliver a deterrent punishment on PAF.

* Four Sukhoi-30s, the IAF’s most powerful air-superiority aircraft, were involved in the melee at beyond visual range (BVR). They were surprised by the PAF F-16s firing their American AMRAAM missiles from so far that their own radar/computer/missiles were not able to give them a “firing solution”. Translated: India’s best fighter, which constitutes half of the IAF’s combat force, was outranged and outgunned.

* Fortunately, two of the upgraded Mirage-2000s were on patrol. These have new French missiles (MICA, or Missile d’Interception, de combat d’autodefense), which are the exact peers of the F-16/AMRAAM. They were able to lock on to some of the PAF planes, which panicked into dropping their South African origin, stand-off weapons (SOWs) in a hurry, mostly missing the targets. Nevertheless, one fell in the middle of the Nowshera brigade headquarters compound. It was a closer call than we think.

* Surprised, and outnumbered, the IAF scrambled six MiG-21 Bisons from Srinagar and Awantipur. Since these climbed in the shadow of the Pir Panjal range, the PAF AWAC failed to detect them. Their sudden appearance at the battlefield upset the PAF plan. This was fortuitous.


It is only because of the IAF’s good training, situational awareness, and some luck that this audacious PAF mission failed. No ground target was hit. Its larger objective of luring vastly outnumbered and outranged IAF jets into a pre-set “killing zone” was the bigger failure.
MKI did not fire due to RoE. Now we will snipe any fucker who tries a redux. That's why Pakis issuing NOTAMs.

N011 BARS radar has 400 km range aka mini AWACS. Using triangulation to find hostiles is not too much of an effort given F 16s are not low RCS. Israeli hammer pods and chaff were used to divert missiles fired.
 

singhboy98

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MKI did not fire due to RoE. Now we will snipe any fucker who tries a redux. That's why Pakis issuing NOTAMs.

N011 BARS radar has 400 km range aka mini AWACS. Using triangulation to find hostiles is not too much of an effort given F 16s are not low RCS. Israeli hammer pods and chaff were used to divert missiles fired.
Actually, the above article is quite accurate. Translation: R-77 is shit.
 

Neptune

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i like your post.theory of not detecting indian jets might be true.i think cooper is right but where is the wreckage of f-16? and where is su-30 wreckage?

There is no SU-30mki that was shot down, by now we would have seen the wreckage, pilots or smoke plume. Everytime an Indian aircraft crashes there is someone that takes photos or video.

As for the banning you speak of, people on PDF get their comments immediately removed and people get instantly banned if they legitimately have good question or counter arguments. TheEagle is an airhead moderator that throws temper tantrums.


As for Pakistan claims they are dubious. Pakistan has a history of lying about kills. Pakistan propaganda and misinformation is just as dangerous as their F-16s.


I believe Pakistan claimed they shot down this Mig-23 in Afghanistan or that they damage it so bad it that if crashed upon landing. In reality here is that Mig-23 landing:

IMG_3199.JPG




Here is the new decals after encounter Pakistani F-16s:

IMG_3200.JPG




Here is the damaged from missile shrapnel:

IMG_3201.JPG




Pakistan built a bravado of being one of the best air forces in the world with some of the best trained pilots but they could not shoot down big, heavy and un-maneuverable Mig-23s. In fact they bugged out after they found out the Soviets were no push over and actually armed with air-to-air missiles. The fact is they shot down their own F-16 in another incounter with Soviet pilots, which could only mean they are completely incompetent or that the Soviets shot down a Pakistani F-16.
 

mayfair

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Actually, the above article is quite accurate. Translation: R-77 is shit.
Nope, the (f)article is a perfect example of someone who knows diddly squat about something and yet gets paid tons to write about it.

Let us have a look
They were surprised by the PAF F-16s firing their American AMRAAM missiles from so far that their own radar/computer/missiles were not able to give them a “firing solution”.

He actually praises Napaki incompetence for firing a missile from 40-50 km away, despite knowing that success was not guaranteed because of enough escape options available. Yet he goes on to claim that Mirages lock on panicked the Napaki pilots into dropping their stuff.

Coupta or Kutta, clearly omits the mention of RoE i.e. no BVRs fired across the border/LoC. He also omitted the mention of civilian traffic in that area. The pilots were surprised because here were Napakis brazenly breaking the RoEs, which were set up by BOTH the governments to clearly avoid potentially catastrophic outcomes that will surely visit the Napakis. This is why the Republic of NOTAM is up and running.

Mirages locked on but didn't fire? Did he bother to ask why? The same effing RoEs. Also lock on != successfully hitting the target, else Napaki BVRAAMS (the supposed best in the world) would not have dived into the ground.

In fact as the other accounts pointed out, MKIs needed clearance from above for going weapons free.

Also remember, Ghafool said that their entire airforce was airborne!!

Can you imagine, launching the entire airforce for one sneak attack!!!
 

Armand2REP

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MKI did not fire due to RoE. Now we will snipe any fucker who tries a redux. That's why Pakis issuing NOTAMs.

N011 BARS radar has 400 km range aka mini AWACS. Using triangulation to find hostiles is not too much of an effort given F 16s are not low RCS. Israeli hammer pods and chaff were used to divert missiles fired.
Abhinandan's actions prove that the ROE was to open fire and MKIs failed to do so, unless you are claiming the Wing Commander was derelict in his duties.
 

Neptune

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Actually, the above article is quite accurate. Translation: R-77 is shit.


The Indian Air Force trained against F-16 and many other US and European aircraft. There is nothing that would surprise them, they know very well the threshold in which F-16s can fire. People are also forgetting Pakistan had AWACS while there is no evidence India had any AWACS available which makes a world of difference.

Indians were probably surprised by the brazenness of Pakistan firing across the LOC especially since the Indians were in a defensive posture. It also does sound as if Indian pilots were scoffing at Pakistani pilots for firing and missing from such distances. Then again this is the same Pakistani Air Force that "shot down" their own aircraft (if you believe that story) when facing Soviets and then failed to shoot down inferior Mig-23s and then then ran home after the Mig-23s proved to be a little to much for their pilots. Pakistan has some dangerous aircraft and good pilots but also a fair share of incompetence.

Either Abhinandan is an incredible pilot for somehow going undetected deep into Pakistani airspace before being downed despite Pakistan having dozens of aircraft up in the air including AWACS or the Pakistani Air Force in incompetent. If India would sent up enough aircraft, including AWACS and their best pilots and have good mission planning they could down and destroy dozens of Pakistani aircraft on the ground. The Pakistani Air Force should be respected but they are no match for India. They just happen to be more agressive and honesty lucky when they downed Abhinandan's aircraft.
 

rone

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There was noR77 firing may be becoz mig21 or mig21's in merge with f16 or jf17's r77 lacks mid course guidance correction so the su30 guarding military installations if they fire r77 f16 may take advantage of hilly terrain and its agilty to conter it and may be mig21 get acide accidentally shootdown , that's why mig21 insisted on close combat dog fight with r73
 
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mist_consecutive

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Actually, the above article is quite accurate. Translation: R-77 is shit.
This article is one of the big bullshit written upon paid money from Pakistanis, and also probably french babus to sell their aircraft as superior. Author has absolutely zero knowledge of air warfare.

Abhinandan's actions prove that the ROE was to open fire and MKIs failed to do so, unless you are claiming the Wing Commander was derelict in his duties.
ROE was NOT to fire BVR missiles with civilian aircraft in the air. Most probably in short span of action, mission commander didn't give clearance to fire BVRs, and when it was given, all was over.
 

Armand2REP

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ROE was NOT to fire BVR missiles with civilian aircraft in the air. Most probably in short span of action, mission commander didn't give clearance to fire BVRs, and when it was given, all was over.
There was no civilian aircraft in the area of operations. It had been cleared shortly after the initial strikes.
 

singhboy98

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Nope, the (f)article is a perfect example of someone who knows diddly squat about something and yet gets paid tons to write about it.

Let us have a look
They were surprised by the PAF F-16s firing their American AMRAAM missiles from so far that their own radar/computer/missiles were not able to give them a “firing solution”.

He actually praises Napaki incompetence for firing a missile from 40-50 km away, despite knowing that success was not guaranteed because of enough escape options available. Yet he goes on to claim that Mirages lock on panicked the Napaki pilots into dropping their stuff.

Coupta or Kutta, clearly omits the mention of RoE i.e. no BVRs fired across the border/LoC. He also omitted the mention of civilian traffic in that area. The pilots were surprised because here were Napakis brazenly breaking the RoEs, which were set up by BOTH the governments to clearly avoid potentially catastrophic outcomes that will surely visit the Napakis. This is why the Republic of NOTAM is up and running.

Mirages locked on but didn't fire? Did he bother to ask why? The same effing RoEs. Also lock on != successfully hitting the target, else Napaki BVRAAMS (the supposed best in the world) would not have dived into the ground.

In fact as the other accounts pointed out, MKIs needed clearance from above for going weapons free.

Also remember, Ghafool said that their entire airforce was airborne!!

Can you imagine, launching the entire airforce for one sneak attack!!!
This article is one of the big bullshit written upon paid money from Pakistanis, and also probably french babus to sell their aircraft as superior. Author has absolutely zero knowledge of air warfare.



ROE was NOT to fire BVR missiles with civilian aircraft in the air. Most probably in short span of action, mission commander didn't give clearance to fire BVRs, and when it was given, all was over.
The RoE thing was what I was trying to say. Of course you cannot take anything from the likes of Shekhar Gupta at face value. You have to read between the lines. Like you guys have already stated, the RoE was in place for a reason, i.e, civilian traffic should not be affected (major reason of constant airspace closure for almost a month now). Remember the early reports indicated that an Indigo A320 in the area was locked on or something. Now, I don't think that that was true but such fears are valid. This is why the pilots in the MKI were surprised or should we say dismayed. No sane airforce would go all BVR blazing with heavy civilian traffic in the sector. I believe that the MKI's were tasked with providing electronic cover to civilian traffic also from the time the Porkis started farting AMRAAMs.

My other point about the R-77 is valid. The IAF is less than impressed with the missile. That is why we will see a lot of Astra's soon.
 

Bleh

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Abhinandan's actions prove that the ROE was to open fire and MKIs failed to do so, unless you are claiming the Wing Commander was derelict in his duties.
No, ROE dictated that there would be no cross-LOC BVR fire during "peacetime". That's why MKI's didn't engage (...although should have once they fired the AIM-120 vollley).

And also R-77 is shit... Sukhois can detect & track at distance of 400 kilometres, but can't take out anything capable of maneuvering at even 40 km!!!
People are also forgetting Pakistan had AWACS while there is no evidence India had any AWACS available
* Surprised, and outnumbered, the IAF scrambled six MiG-21 Bisons from...
...objective of luring vastly outnumbered and outranged IAF jets into a pre-set “killing zone” was the bigger failure.
More important question: WHY THE FUCK WASN'T INDIA READY???
We should have been waiting for this to happen with SAMs placed at LOC. PLus, we also knew that they could attack with any effectiveness only at daytime. The amount of damage done to Pak forces should have been monumental!

It's a mistake to be learnt from, not some achievement to be satisfied about!!!
 
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mist_consecutive

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No, ROE dictated that there would be no cross-LOC BVR fire during "peacetime". That's why MKI's didn't engage (...although should have once they fired the AIM-120 vollley).

And also R-77 is shit... Sukhois can detect & track at distance of 400 kilometres, but can't take out anything capable of maneuvering at even 40 km!!!


More important question: WHY THE FUCK WASN'T INDIA READY???
We should have been waiting for this to happen with SAMs placed at LOC. PLus, we also knew that they could attack with any effectiveness only at daytime. The amount of damage done to Pak forces should have been monumental!

It's a mistake to be learnt from, not some achievement to be satisfied about!!!
People have a grave misconception regarding BVR missiles. If I give you a A2A missile with 400km range, and Sukhoi can see 400km, will you be able to shoot down aircraft at 400km? NO ! chances of shooting down anything moving beyond 100km with any A2A missile is less than 5%. Why? Maintaining radar lock till missile reaches that aircraft is hard. First, BVR missile has to be provided mid-course correction periodically, that means it is effectively a command guided by the host aircraft/AWACS, till it reaches distance short enough to activate its own onboard seeker radar. BVR missiles are effective only at the around 30-40km range, where its seeker can get a lock on quickly (generally around 20-25km, depends on missile), and it becomes fire and forget. In between, if host aircraft moves around (maybe for evasive maneuvers or close range dogfight) and loses radar lock on the target, the missile is wasted.

And yes, India was ready. Their whole airforce was in the air. They created temporary numerical superiority in that area, even though they were repelled back.
 

Armand2REP

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https://m.hindustantimes.com/column...ght-reveals/story-dDa4H38Xtq7LPnj6DtkZRN.html

Though Shekhar Gupta is always critical of the Modi government , this article is worth reading .
Shekhar Gupta said:
* Four Sukhoi-30s, the IAF’s most powerful air-superiority aircraft, were involved in the melee at beyond visual range (BVR). They were surprised by the PAF F-16s firing their American AMRAAM missiles from so far that their own radar/computer/missiles were not able to give them a “firing solution”. Translated: India’s best fighter, which constitutes half of the IAF’s combat force, was outranged and outgunned.

* Fortunately, two of the upgraded Mirage-2000s were on patrol. These have new French missiles (MICA, or Missile d’Interception, de combat d’autodefense), which are the exact peers of the F-16/AMRAAM. They were able to lock on to some of the PAF planes, which panicked into dropping their South African origin, stand-off weapons (SOWs) in a hurry, mostly missing the targets. Nevertheless, one fell in the middle of the Nowshera brigade headquarters compound. It was a closer call than we think.
So only the M2000s where able to see through the F-16 ECM jamming to get a missile lock because R-77s are shit. When PAF faced off with Russian junk they took their shots without hesitation, when faced with French fighters they dropped their payloads and ran like a bunch of wank stains.
 

singhboy98

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So only the M2000s where able to see through the F-16 ECM jamming to get a missile lock because R-77s are shit. When PAF faced off with Russian junk they took their shots without hesitation, when faced with French fighters they dropped their payloads and ran like a bunch of wank stains.
Seriously, we have had about enough of your French promotion. The Mirage 2000 is a good aircraft. But no one in his/her sane mind would compare it to a Su-30MKI in A2A role. If you are seriously going to take the likes of Shekhar Kutta at face value, you have another thing coming.
 

Armand2REP

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Seriously, we have had about enough of your French promotion. The Mirage 2000 is a good aircraft. But no one in his/her sane mind would compare it to a Su-30MKI in A2A role. If you are seriously going to take the likes of Shekhar Kutta at face value, you have another thing coming.
It is either as Shekhar stated or your MKI pilots were derelict in their duty. They were shot at and didn't do a damn thing is what you are saying.
 

Bleh

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First, BVR missile has to be provided mid-course correction periodically, that means it is effectively a command guided by the host aircraft/AWACS, till it reaches distance short enough to activate its own onboard seeker radar. BVR missiles are effective only at the around 30-40km range, where its seeker can get a lock on quickly (generally around 20-25km, depends on missile), and it becomes fire and forget. In between, if host aircraft moves around (maybe for evasive maneuvers or close range dogfight) and loses radar lock on the target, the missile is wasted.

And yes, India was ready. Their whole airforce was in the air. They created temporary numerical superiority in that area, even though they were repelled back.
Bullshit! BVRAAMs travel at Mach 4-5. That means maintaining lock on an aircraft from 100+km away for 30-45 seconds... doable (& if we didn't have AWACS available despite doing an airstrike inside Pakistan the earlier night, that's bad judgement on IAF command's part).

They succeeded in getting local numerical superiority. That's how battles are won!
They didn't manage to succeed. Because they are coward imbeciles. But that doesn't negate the fact that they achieved ideal scenario.

And this French shill is right when he says this too, technically.
...or your MKI pilots were derelict in their duty. They were shot at and didn't do a damn thing is what you are saying.
Nor were Indian SAM systems waiting at LOC for PAF's retaliatory sorties... Ground assets could have engaged the moment they crossed over, before any IAF jets reached.
 
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ashdoc

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So only the M2000s where able to see through the F-16 ECM jamming to get a missile lock because R-77s are shit. When PAF faced off with Russian junk they took their shots without hesitation, when faced with French fighters they dropped their payloads and ran like a bunch of wank stains.
The previous NDA government which was in power in 2002 had a golden opportunity to manufacture as many mirage 2000- 5s as they wanted as France was going to manufacture rafale and was willing to shift the entire mirage 2000 production line to India . We could have got 200 or more Mirage 2000s if we wanted . But we haven't got a single fighter of MRCA category thanks to dragging on decision making .
 
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