IAF MiG-21 shoots down Pakistani F-16

[Anirbann Datta]

do not know its relevant or irrelevant to this thread, but could not resist self !!!! can some one please confirm, or its fake story!!!!

As per FB Defence360, PAF JF-17 blunder got shot down by own Chinese Airdefence system HQ16A or LY80 LOMADS

!!!!

 

[scatterStorm]

You have a valid question sir but I have a counter question
Why did Abhinandan did not use R77 and rather chased the Pakis F16 across LOC and shot it down with R73. Could he also take the shot with R77?

IAF Mig 21 Bison that Wing Comm. Abhinandan was flying, was going blind after LOC crossing, since you aren't activating your radars, so If I am correct, much of the homing missile like R77 needs input from radar for mid course flight path correction if needed for BVR engagement. You don't need it with R73 at close proximity as infrared seeker will lock on to the target even at off-bore sight engagement ... maybe that would've happen'd.

 

[Armand2REP]

IAF Mig 21 Bison that Wing Comm. Abhinandan was flying, was going blind after LOC crossing, since you aren't activating your radars, so If I am correct, much of the homing missile like R77 needs input from radar for mid course flight path correction if needed for BVR engagement. You don't need it with R73 at close proximity as infrared seeker will lock on to the target even at off-bore sight engagement ... maybe that would've happen'd.

PAF had their AWACs up, he didn't have his ECM pod installed and he was ready to dog fight them. I don't think concealing himself by remaining EMCON silent was happening for him that day. Since he was chasing him I think he was going to get in close with R-73 and if that missed after he pulled out further he would have fired R-77. He just never got the chance. The radar in the Bison is not powerful enough to use R-77 to its max range, the MKIs should have been alongside of him unleashing hell.

 

[Anil47]

IAF Mig 21 Bison that Wing Comm. Abhinandan was flying, was going blind after LOC crossing, since you aren't activating your radars, so If I am correct, much of the homing missile like R77 needs input from radar for mid course flight path correction if needed for BVR engagement. You don't need it with R73 at close proximity as infrared seeker will lock on to the target even at off-bore sight engagement ... maybe that would've happen'd.

Well turning off the radar had unfortunately no effect on the BVRAAM it still hit him . And mig21's radar requires cooling very often and has max 30 mins of working time .

IAF was not prepared to attack but only defend if Pakis had crossed the line of control. Otherwise 2 sukhois , 2 mig21bisons and 3 mirage2000 were sufficient for their 24 aircraft package of scrap.

 

[mayfair]

Once again why are we so sure that a BVRAAM hit Abhi's plane? Why this khujli to score self goals?

Do we even have any evidence that ABhi's plane was brought down by a missile?

Does the wreckage seem consistent with a A2A missile hitting a tiny plane?

Have the Napakis shown the remains of their missile that shot down Abhi's plane?

 

[Anil47]

Once again why are we so sure that a BVRAAM hit Abhi's plane? Why this khujli to score self goals?

Do we even have any evidence that ABhi's plane was brought down by a missile?

Does the wreckage seem consistent with a A2A missile hitting a tiny plane?

Have the Napakis shown the remains of their missile that shot down Abhi's plane?

Sir, there were photos of splinters on the tail of the fallen mig21, unfortunately bastard pakis have disappeared the F16 wreckage or else we would have known the reality. He was most probably shot, when he was engaged with the paki F16 and when he did a maneuvered to escape the missile while he turned towards LOC , the missile might have hit him or exploded near the fuselage.

 

[Jameson Emoni]

Once again why are we so sure that a BVRAAM hit Abhi's plane? Why this khujli to score self goals?

Do we even have any evidence that ABhi's plane was brought down by a missile?

Does the wreckage seem consistent with a A2A missile hitting a tiny plane?

Have the Napakis shown the remains of their missile that shot down Abhi's plane?

Indian M-21 was hit by Pakistani F-16's debris because Indian M-21 was in close and hot pursuit of Pakistani F-16. Indian M-21 deliberately got very close to Pakistani F-16 to minimize the Pakistani F-16's BVR advantage.

 

[mayfair]

Sir, there were photos of splinters on the tail of the fallen mig21, unfortunately bastard pakis have disappeared the F16 wreckage or else we would have known the reality. He was most probably shot, when he was engaged with the paki F16 and when he did a maneuvered to escape the missile while he turned towards LOC , the missile might have hit him or exploded near the fuselage.

First of all, I am no sir, just another member here.

If the missile had hit or exploded near the frame, the wreckage would be far more disintegrated.

I am no expert, but a look at the wreckage gives very little indication of a missile-induced damage.

The area where it was found has no charred/burnt grass that would be consistent with a flaming wreckage falling onto it. It seems that the some parts of the airframe burst into flames AFTER it hit the ground.

IAF acknowledged that one MIg 21 WENT DOWN. There is no proof whatsoever that it was brought down by a missile.

Much of the data suggests an engine flameout, either because of debris, exhaust or some other reason.

Let us not allow Napaki propag@ndu to spread unchecked, uncontested.

 

[Immanuel]

PAF had their AWACs up, he didn't have his ECM pod installed and he was ready to dog fight them. I don't think concealing himself by remaining EMCON silent was happening for him that day. Since he was chasing him I think he was going to get in close with R-73 and if that missed after he pulled out further he would have fired R-77. He just never got the chance. The radar in the Bison is not powerful enough to use R-77 to its max range, the MKIs should have been alongside of him unleashing hell.

As said before the MKI were shot at first and from most accounts there were only two MKI, 2 Mirages, we don't know how far they were from their targets. The Pukis fired their Aims at long range which regardless of how far they are need to be evaded with evasive maneuvering, the Bisons being closer were the only ones to engage.

I don't believe MKI got close enough to fire anything. Besides by the time they evade and get back in the game the Mig-21 had shot the F-16 down while going down itself. The Pukis flee. Keep in mind our SAMs also painted the other larger group to keep them from coming closer.

 

[indiatester]

As said before the MKI were shot at first and from most accounts there were only two MKI, 2 Mirages, we don't know how far they were from their targets. The Pukis fired their Aims at long range which regardless of how far they are need to be evaded with evasive maneuvering, the Bisons being closer were the only ones to engage.

I don't believe MKI got close enough to fire anything. Besides by the time they evade and get back in the game the Mig-21 had shot the F-16 down while going down itself. The Pukis flee. Keep in mind our SAMs also painted the other larger group to keep them from coming closer.

Tom Cooper on F-16 forum said as per his sources the F-16 pilots fired their missiles 40kms away which caused them to fail. He went on to post link of how paki pilots are given passing marks even though they don't get the concepts of flying F-16.

 

[rone]

i hope this video came here before stating that it is a mig21 fight footage but the real source footage was this

 

[hit&run]

can some on analyse this video this was published on 26th Feb? Some where over Mirpur??? How is that Possible. Looks like aerial engagement between IAF and Paki AF began immediately after India conducted air raid in KPK.

The video settles that 2 jets were coming down. They heard one 'bang' as well.

 

[Arsalan123]

Trying to focus back on what @patriots had posted earlier about the f-16.net forum discussion.

I didn't see Tom Cooper say that F-16 went down, but it did appear that Mig-21 surprised the F-16 and came in from height of 13000ft compared to 7000ft where the F-16's were.

This is what Tom Cooper had said
http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=413924&sid=2beaffaa44a47747fcbf62770b43f3ab#p413924


They're going to do so, whether the Pakistanis like that or not. The reason is that Pakistan is obligued to let the Pentagon (and LM) inspect their F-16s at least two times a year.
A slightly different question is the one of what are the Pentagon and LM then going to release about their findings. If one has nothing else to gauge upon, when a PAF F-16 got shot down back in 1987 (yes, my memory happens to go that far back) official Islamabad first said that none was lost - and then maintained that version for about two months, before coming out with the version about 'fratricide fire', and that with help of same people (then working for General-Dynamics, later for LM) who also helped convince the Pakistanis their F-16s shot down 'two Soviet MiG-23MLs' (actually, they damaged one).

What a surprise then, the case is actually unclear until this very day....



Well, sorry to inform you that in the case of Pakistan, this can easily take 50-60 years.
Just one example: official PAF still insists on M M. Alam shooting down '5 Hunters in less than 5 minutes', back in 1965 - no matter how much this was proven to be a lie, and that already 20 years ago.



There was no 'dogfight' on 27 February.
The PAF was 'orbiting' on one side of the LOC, the IAF on the other. Then the PAF found an opportune moment: Su-30MKIs were heading in opposite direction (one can't orbit in direction of the opponent all the time), and it appeared to the Pakistanis that nobody is airborne over Srinagar. So, they sent 4 F-16s 'in'.

As these 4 F-16s moved in, the Su-30MKIs turned to intercept, in turn prompting the other 4 F-16s to engage them. That's how it happened few AIM-120C-5s 'migrated to India'. But, since AMRAAMs were fired from 30km+ away, all missed (about 10+ years ago, when some really well-informed people were still finding it worth to frequent places like this forum, one could still read why: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6302&p=75873&hilit=Looks+like+I%27ve+yanked+your+chain#p75873).

Furthermore, the problem is there's a mountain chain with 4,000m (that's about 13,000ft) high peaks in between the LOC and Srinagar. Thus, the PAF AWACS missed the IAF scrambling several MiG-21s from Awantipora FOB and Srinagar AB in response to ingressing F-16s. Yes, ladies and gentlemen: contrary to video games, in reality radars can't see through mountains. First surprise here, I guess.

So, when the MiGs climbed over that mountain chain... 'surprise, surprise': they found themselves at 15,000ft+ - high above F-16s that were ingressing at about 7,000ft. The lead MiG dove, ignoring the fact he's crossing the LOC while doing so, one of F-16s came up towards the MiG. What happened next is unclear.

...that is: until the moments captured on several cell-phones, showing that MiG going down in flames.

Where have I got this? Call it a 'rumour'.

i like your post.theory of not detecting indian jets might be true.i think cooper is right but where is the wreckage of f-16? and where is su-30 wreckage?

 

[Craigs]

I think reason IAF did not fire BVRAAMs is because they wanted to force PAF to break the ROE first and also prove it. Now that it is established in future there is nothing tying IAF down. Imagine if IAF had fired then it does not matter if they fired first or second Pakistan will be able to blame IAF for it.

Now IAF has the PAF right where it wants - shitting bricks. That is why the never ending NOTAMs and the hair trigger SAM activations.

 

[indiatester]

i like your post.theory of not detecting indian jets might be true.i think cooper is right but where is the wreckage of f-16? and where is su-30 wreckage?

You know about how Pakistan tried to hide the 1987 crash right?
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1987/0...Pakistani-F-16-US-in-a-coverup/8251553579200/
There are other links too. Since it fell in POK and since Pakistan has not enabled internet effectively controlling the info flow of information from there, information on crashed F-16 is hard to come by.

No Su-30 was hit, so there is no wreckage. If you dig into why IK and Gafoor initially said 2/3 parachutes and pilots, you may have doubts yourself. But, Pakistanis have a history of lying and being delusional to the extent of not acknowledging your own dead soldiers. So, I don't expect any honesty from you either.
What can I say more, your credibility is low and I sure don't trust information from Pakistani sources.

 

[Arsalan123]

You know about how Pakistan tried to hide the 1987 crash right?
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1987/0...Pakistani-F-16-US-in-a-coverup/8251553579200/
There are other links too. Since it fell in POK and since Pakistan has not enabled internet effectively controlling the info flow of information from there, information on crashed F-16 is hard to come by.

No Su-30 was hit, so there is no wreckage. If you dig into why IK and Gafoor initially said 2/3 parachutes and pilots, you may have doubts yourself. But, Pakistanis have a history of lying and being delusional to the extent of not acknowledging your own dead soldiers. So, I don't expect any honesty from you either.
What can I say more, your credibility is low and I sure don't trust information from Pakistani sources.

they will ban me from conversation again if i say something again.they already ban me on another thread.i am not talking about blame game.i am talking about evidence.where is 2nd pilot? ispr said that one pilot died in cmh.it means there was another pilot flying another jet.we don't know real events of this incident.

 

[Enquirer]

they will ban me from conversation again if i say something again.they already ban me on another thread.i am not talking about blame game.i am talking about evidence.where is 2nd pilot? ispr said that one pilot died in cmh.it means there was another pilot flying another jet.we don't know real events of this incident.

You haven't shared the video (Kamran khan show) where Gafoor or Chaudry mentioned the death of the pilot in the hospital.
I checked one interview of Kamran Khan with Ghafoor....there was no mention of pilot death.

 

[indiatester]

they will ban me from conversation again if i say something again.they already ban me on another thread.i am not talking about blame game.i am talking about evidence.where is 2nd pilot? ispr said that one pilot died in cmh.it means there was another pilot flying another jet.we don't know real events of this incident.

Surely DG-ISPR would have been told of 2 pilots being arrested by their forces.
They hoped both were Indian jets that got shot down. When the found out that the 2nd pilot was their own, they as usual held on to 2 Indian jets being down, while conveniently correcting that only one pilot was captured.

Read that with the interviews of the villagers near the crash site where they said that they saw multiple parachutes and one old man saying that one was a sikh officer.

Please excuse me as I can't get more "evidence".

 

[mayfair]

The best part is one of them said that they saw a parachute with Indian flag (probably referring to the tricoloured parachute) coming down and that's how he knew the pilot was Indian!!

The best part is that the parachute accompanying the Martin-Baker seat is actually tricoloured, whereas the bISON parachute has only orange and white!!

There are lots of lies and coverups by Shitistan.

 

[cannonfodder]

^^^ You guys are wasting time. These people are trained to think in certain way; he has already said that terrorism is jihad on the other thread. What are you people expecting from him?