DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Kuldeepm952]

Looks like you are completely ignoring SAMHO CLGM which has a range of 5km and a DoP in excess of 800mm RHA.

Defeats the whole purpose of a gun on tank, right? I think IA tanks still carry apfsds as main ammo and maybe some few gun launched atgms. 4-5 atgms are standard for tanks according to open source as per Russian doctrine. Also, below 500m mark, gun launched atgms won't work and the current apfsds might not be able to effectively Penn the enemy tank.
And it is common among current gen tanks that armour ratings for apfsds be 500mm RHA and the same Armor can act as 800mm RHA against chemical rounds, that is HEAT, by addition to that add ERA, NERA.

 

[THESIS THORON]

Defeats the whole purpose of a gun on tank, right? I think IA tanks still carry apfsds as main ammo and maybe some few gun launched atgms. 4-5 atgms are standard for tanks according to open source as per Russian doctrine.

haven't we yet partnered or got tot from some other country regarding apfsds ?

 

[Kuldeepm952]

haven't we yet partnered or got tot from some other country regarding apfsds ?

We did got ToT form IMI and now Russians though those are still just old Mango rounds equivalent.
What we are lacking is a good high pressure gun and a good apfsds.

 

[Marliii]

We did got ToT form IMI and now Russians though those are still just old Mango rounds equivalent.

We should get l&t into the project they can get help from either hyundai rotem or nexter

 

[Kuldeepm952]

We should get l&t into the project they can get help from either hyundai rotem or nexter

Let's see if drdo is able to attain 1000mm rha at 0° at 2000m mark from their NGMBT/FMBT new 125mm smoothbore gun, even 800mm would be significant achievement imo. This is the requirement in IA FRCV rfi.
I think baba kalyani would be better for apfsds than l&t, given the metallurgical expertise of former. Just wait, we will surely see some kind of DCPP for FMBT. Also I don't think any country would give ToT for their top of line apfsds. Do you happen to know any country which got license production for 650mm or above penning apfsds round?

 

[Marliii]

Let's see if drdo is able to attain 1000mm rha at 0° at 2000m mark from their NGMBT/FMBT new 125mm smoothbore gun, even 800mm would be significant achievement imo. This is the requirement in IA FRCV rfi.
I think baba kalyani would be better for apfsds than l&t, given the metallurgical expertise of former. Just wait, we will surely see some kind of DCPP for FMBT. Also I don't think any country would give ToT for their top of line apfsds. Do you happen to know any country which got license production for 650mm or above penning apfsds round?

1000mm for russian vaccum round is most likely false .l&t has a good partnership with hyundai and nexter they are more generous on tot than other countries but their APFSDS aren't that top tier like russian or american

 

[Physx32]

haven't we yet partnered or got tot from some other country regarding apfsds ?

Why would other countries give the latest tech for apfsds to India? Infact why would country give any defence technology to India?

 

[Covfefe]

Why would other countries give the latest tech for apfsds to India? Infact why would country give any defence technology to India?

Paisa. APFSDS isn't a prohibitive technology like SSN or Jet Engine. It can very well be developed locally but that's reinventing the wheel for us, and a huge loss of sale for the partners. Even with ToT, we pay royalty for every unit produced that's like mufat ka money for them

 

[Kuldeepm952]

1000mm for russian vaccum round is most likely false .l&t has a good partnership with hyundai and nexter they are more generous on tot than other countries but their APFSDS aren't that top tier like russian or american

Yeah, i think so too, 800mm Penn seems more plausible. But I cant wrap my head aroun 1000mm IA FRCV requirement, I hope they tone down their requirement to something more attainable otherwise I fear they might even reject drdo FMBT or a cycle of endless trials including Mars trials. Unrealistic requirements are the biggest enemy in our defense procurements. They are also expecting 1000mm RHA equivalent armour for around 50ton tank.

 

[THESIS THORON]

Yeah, i think so too, 800mm Penn seems more plausible. But I cant wrap my head aroun 1000mm IA FRCV requirement, I hope they tone down their requirement to something more attainable otherwise I fear they might even reject drdo FMBT or a cycle of endless trials including Mars trials. Unrealistic requirements are the biggest enemy in our defense procurements.

frcv has req of 800mm penetration or 1000mm ?

 

[Kuldeepm952]

frcv has req of 800mm penetration or 1000mm ?

1000mm RHA at 0° at 2000m for apfsds.
Also they have armour requirement of 1000mm RHA.
These figures are exact copy of advertised capabilities of T-14 Armata. The dude who made the rfi must have thought armata as pinnacle of tanks and straight up copied the stats without doing any more research.

 

[Marliii]

1000mm RHA at 0° at 2000m for apfsds.
Also they have armour requirement of 1000mm RHA.
These figures are exact copy of advertised capabilities of T-14 Armata. The dude who made the rfi must have thought armata as pinnacle of tanks and straight up copied the stats without doing any more research.

Armata is more or less dead for us because of Ukraine .so IA isn't now gonna show the desperation they once had to replace t72s

 

[Kuldeepm952]

Armata is more or less dead for us because of Ukraine .so IA isn't now gonna show the desperation they once had to replace t72s

I am all for Desi systems as long as they fulfil atleast 75-80% of requirement and then attaining full capability through subsequent upgrades.
The pursuit of unobtanium will lead to nothing.
I am now waiting to see if mrfa tender leads to anything in a short time frame. IMO, a jv for development of a few types of transport aircrafts and spinoffs should take equal or more importance. P 75I is something I really want to happen soon and i long for the day we have our own Desi designed SSK.

 

[fire starter]

IAF is focusing on use of AI in enhancing situational awareness through multi-platform - multi-sensor fusion in a Network Centric Operation environment. Towards this, AI modules are being integrated in the upgrade projects of Command and Control system. AI tools have already been integrated on the ELINT applications for generating accurate Electronic Order of Battle and are being fused with image interpretation and analysis tools to enhance targeting data. We are in the process of fusing AI onto the existing maintenance and logistics management tools.

 

[Chinmoy]

Why somebody have to waste his hard earn money in the name of R&D for UN armed forces who anyhow will going to tell you "NO" .

Look at this ATAGs example still fresh in our mind. UN armed forces obsession with so called "Quality" has done with private players.

I laugh on you people who throws your own garbage on opposite wall in night and next day morning complaint about hygiene and poor performance by Municipality.

Few pages back I mentioned about people here who would crib a lot when asked to go for BABA instead of Jockey, but would write essay on indigenization here. You seems to be of that category.

Lets take a relevant example to simplify things. Suppose you are a race car driver and want to compete in some circuit. So you want a car which would do 0 to 100 in 6 seconds to atleast compete, but the car offered by some indigenous company does it in 12 second. So as the driver, would you go with that car or would look for better option available?

Coming to ATAGS, 90% of the issues is with developers and the rest 10% is on user. What is the point of involving two biggest makers in the country and not taking advantage of their building capabilities? Why not they have gone with two different prototypes from the beginning? One with hydraulic drive and other with electric drive? How come now the issue of misfiring during last trial cropped up whereas both TSL and BFL were publishing reports of successful trial completion last year?
DRDO is trying to forcibly push their product. Same is the case with WhAP. Fault of IA/IAF lies that they don't have a design bureau of own just like IN. But in recent case of P75I we have seen that they are also not going with indigenous AIP.

So now you are free to laugh at me or on your ignorance.

 

[Srinie]

I am all for Desi systems as long as they fulfil atleast 75-80% of requirement and then attaining full capability through subsequent upgrades.
The pursuit of unobtanium will lead to nothing.
I am now waiting to see if mrfa tender leads to anything in a short time frame. IMO, a jv for development of a few types of transport aircrafts and spinoffs should take equal or more importance. P 75I is something I really want to happen soon and i long for the day we have our own Desi designed SSK.

For that Indian Armed forces have to come up with GSQRS that does not resemble Marvel Films weapons (Manohar Parikkar came up with this analogy ). Can India come up with weapon system that fulfills local requirements the answer in most cases is yes but if you want world class weapons you would need more money better manpower and consistency in parameters . World class weapons can not be designed when GSQRS are changed annually

 

[Srinie]

Few pages back I mentioned about people here who would crib a lot when asked to go for BABA instead of Jockey, but would write essay on indigenization here. You seems to be of that category.

Lets take a relevant example to simplify things. Suppose you are a race car driver and want to compete in some circuit. So you want a car which would do 0 to 100 in 6 seconds to atleast compete, but the car offered by some indigenous company does it in 12 second. So as the driver, would you go with that car or would look for better option available?

Coming to ATAGS, 90% of the issues is with developers and the rest 10% is on user. What is the point of involving two biggest makers in the country and not taking advantage of their building capabilities? Why not they have gone with two different prototypes from the beginning? One with hydraulic drive and other with electric drive? How come now the issue of misfiring during last trial cropped up whereas both TSL and BFL were publishing reports of successful trial completion last year?
DRDO is trying to forcibly push their product. Same is the case with WhAP. Fault of IA/IAF lies that they don't have a design bureau of own just like IN. But in recent case of P75I we have seen that they are also not going with indigenous AIP.

So now you are free to laugh at me or on your ignorance.

Whole world is going for electric drives but for us. Even if they encountered a problem with electric drive it says alot about their competence that it took them 5-6 years to find problems with the drive . Arjun trials have been discussed endlessly but take a look at tin cans performance in Ukraine war . The same armed forces retired generals sang Hosannas about this garbage how it is superior to Arjun the real results are there to be seen.

 

[Chinmoy]

I was wondering can't we use our BMD radars for SSA.

MOTR.....

 

[vishnugupt]

Few pages back I mentioned about people here who would crib a lot when asked to go for BABA instead of Jockey, but would write essay on indigenization here. You seems to be of that category.

Lets take a relevant example to simplify things. Suppose you are a race car driver and want to compete in some circuit. So you want a car which would do 0 to 100 in 6 seconds to atleast compete, but the car offered by some indigenous company does it in 12 second. So as the driver, would you go with that car or would look for better option available?

Coming to ATAGS, 90% of the issues is with developers and the rest 10% is on user. What is the point of involving two biggest makers in the country and not taking advantage of their building capabilities? Why not they have gone with two different prototypes from the beginning? One with hydraulic drive and other with electric drive? How come now the issue of misfiring during last trial cropped up whereas both TSL and BFL were publishing reports of successful trial completion last year?
DRDO is trying to forcibly push their product. Same is the case with WhAP. Fault of IA/IAF lies that they don't have a design bureau of own just like IN. But in recent case of P75I we have seen that they are also not going with indigenous AIP.

So now you are free to laugh at me or on your ignorance.

I think you have borrowed your knowledge in defence from UN Generals.

First, Comparing Race car with War machine is foolish. Car doesn't get bombed in circuit during race while weapons does. In war, supply of machine and parts play very important role that too at fast pace.. Imagine Russia would able fight in Ukraine if it was UN armed forces??? Never.

Second, Asking DRDO that they should have come up with 2 different type of ATAGs prototype is indeed a demonstration of UN generals wisdom. Typical changing Goal post habit, Changing requirements as usual whereas this is UN Generals job to give proper requirement including what subsystems they need.

Own Design bureau ??
A organisation with Zero wisdom, Zero Vision and can't tell their own needs properly will deliver you design of complex machine.

Sir ji Chandigarh Lobby join kar lijiye.... Reasoning mast hai apki

 

[Chinmoy]

SPYDER operated by iaf and qrsam for ia, right ?
I don't think qr sam not going to replace spyder or akash, but a new addition. spyder sr is the best missile in spyder consists of python 4/5 which also share commonalty with ccm, python 5/4 and it uses ir/iir/tv for search/track/lock target, immune to arm.

Yes.

Here too the very famous turf war of IA and IAF happened. But now with theaterization, it has come up as a shared system. You would see SPYDER only in western and northern theatre as of now.