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Kuldeepm952

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But it shows indian one can penetrate 500mm ... Can u elaborate ?
Yeah, comparitively Russian 125mm mango apfsds of 1986 design has that stats. Having similiar performance for a tank which is going to inducted around 2025 doesn't seems favourable. Also, Pakis will be getting new chinese tanks. Also chinese 105mm alone compares to our 120mm which itself is a cause of comparitive performance issue. Thats 500mm at 0°, which is hardly the practical case.
 

tribendra bisoi

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Yeah, comparitively Russian 125mm mango apfsds of 1986 design has that stats. Having similiar performance for a tank which is going to inducted around 2025 doesn't seems favourable. Also, Pakis will be getting new chinese tanks. Also chinese 105mm alone compares to our 120mm which itself is a cause of comparitive performance issue. Thats 500mm at 0°, which is hardly the practical case.
chinese 120 mm says 220 mm penetration at 66.4 degree 2000 meters . Indian 120mm one says 230mm at 63 degree 2000meters
 

Kuldeepm952

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Why are we lacking in this domain :confused1::confused1:
Who knows but some open source says that type96 has 520mm RHA rating for apfsds at 2000m. Type96A, Type99 and variants would certainly have higher protection. This itself puts Arjun main ammo in junk box. For reference, IA has asked for 1000mm penning for FRCV tank at 2000m. 500mm of Arjun mk2 round is as pathetic as it seems, we should atleast have reached 700mm or good level. The fun thing is t-72 and T-90 are equally pathetic in apfsds matter.
 

mokoman

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chinese 120 mm says 220 mm penetration at 66.4 degree 2000 meters . Indian 120mm one says 230mm at 63 degree 2000meters
forgot details , but russian/chinese penetration figures are not the same .

its something like indian/russian mm is 2/3 of US mm , maybe 1/2 of chinese mm

they measure the penetration by firing a shot from a distance against a plate .

for US/Chinese if there is even slightest small hole - it counts as penetrated . russians and india require some % of the round to actually pass through .

so in this case ours is actually better.
 

Kuldeepm952

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thats 2000 meters by mistake i typed 200 meters ... it shows it is almost same as chinese
Sir, please don't joke, that 120mm smoothbore gun of chinese is of ptz 89 tank destroyer, not even a proper tank, designed in 80s, entered service in 1988. Now our tank arjunmk2 going to be inducted in 2025 can only compete with that, then i am very sorry for our armoured guys. Just imagine if Pakis had leopard 2a7, then we would have been toast. That's actually no one's fault though, when you don't invest in Desi systems, capability building will take time.
 

mist_consecutive

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forgot details , but russian/chinese penetration figures are not the same .

its something like indian/russian mm is 2/3 of US mm , maybe 1/2 of chinese mm

they measure the penetration by firing a shot from a distance against a plate .

for US/Chinese if there is even slightest small hole - it counts as penetrated . russians and india require some % of the round to actually pass through .

so our values will be smaller.
Interesting, can you back up your claim by any source ?
 

mokoman

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Interesting, can you back up your claim by any source ?

There are different ways to measure penetration value. NATO uses the 50% (This means that 50% of the shell had to go through the plate), while the Soviet/Russian standard is higher (80% had to go through). According to authorities like Paul Lakowski, the difference in performance can reach as much as 8%[1]

read about this long time back , if i remember correctly chinese / US criteria is any light passing through => its penetrated.

its funny that Russians have higher standard than everyone else.
 

mist_consecutive

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There are different ways to measure penetration value. NATO uses the 50% (This means that 50% of the shell had to go through the plate), while the Soviet/Russian standard is higher (80% had to go through). According to authorities like Paul Lakowski, the difference in performance can reach as much as 8%[1]

read about this long time back , if i remember correctly chinese / US criteria is any light passing through => its penetrated.

its funny that Russians have higher standard than everyone else.
IMO the Chinese are ought to follow Soviet/Russian measures rather than NATO, or they might have their own criteria.

Also, the difference of 8% isn't really much, in fact, it is tiny.
 

tribendra bisoi

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Willy3

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MMRCA-2.0 is nothing but Jumla by IAF. It will take at least 1-2 years to complete the so called trials. Then it will take another 1-2 years to confirm the deal. Then the OEM will take solid 3 years to start delivery of the product to IAF. So overall max time - 2+2+3 = 7 Years, We are in 2022 lets say MMRCA start in 2023 it will be solid to say the 1st plane will come in 2030. Rather spending money and time , We can simply give how much squadron of MWF is required ( Will replace Jaguar, Mirage and Mig 29 - 240 planes) - 300 aircrafts will do some justice. We can setup an SPV now with private players so at least when MWF when officially inducted during 2026 we can build them faster to augment the depletion.

Thinking about additional Rafale - Dassault order book is currently full with multiple countries before us, same result we will get them only on 2nd half of the decade.
Don't forget, once the new chief of the air staff take the sit the whole priority order changes.
 

Willy3

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It is never about SAAB or HAL capability. All the critical components like Engines, Radar, Armaments are available.
1. Engine - Already purchased.
2. Uttam radar is undergoing testing.
3. Armaments - Readily planned and integrated with existing IAF birds, simply integrated with MWF.

Again unless HAL fucks up massively or IAF changes requirement this plane does not have any reasons to delay since it is simply a jacked up Tejas.
Canards, different aerodynamics , constraints in space to fit more stuff.
There are designe limitations too, I don't know details but u just can't make a bomber with 10* dimensions but similar design like Su 30.

I believe that MWF stuff is a path towards which IAF led to HAL for eventual failure, it's a sabotage, if IAF was always that committed for MWF cause then it would have abandoned MWF stuff anyway.

HAL is overstressed, it needs more budget and manpower.

Ideally I guess it would better if HAL was given task of carry existing development of Tejas towards LIFT mk 1B, C variants rather than overstretching Tejas in mk2.
 

Aniruddha Mulay

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Sir, please don't joke, that 120mm smoothbore gun of chinese is of ptz 89 tank destroyer, not even a proper tank, designed in 80s, entered service in 1988. Now our tank arjunmk2 going to be inducted in 2025 can only compete with that, then i am very sorry for our armoured guys. Just imagine if Pakis had leopard 2a7, then we would have been toast. That's actually no one's fault though, when you don't invest in Desi systems, capability building will take time.
Looks like you are completely ignoring SAMHO CLGM which has a range of 5km and a DoP in excess of 800mm RHA.
 

Marliii

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In a redeffect video on the type 15 light tank he said that the chinese 105mm can successfully penetrate indian t72s is there any truth to what that guy claims? I know he is biased and a joke he had said in a video that russian t80bvm with their relikt armor is gonna be hard to destroy and the first confirmed tank kill in the war was a t80bvm 😂
 
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