Civil war in Ukraine

[bhramos]

 

[katsung47]

Quote, "Russian NGOs demand investigation of massacres near Ukraine's Donetsk

September 24,
Many of the victims are said to have been shot in the head at point-blank range

MOSCOW, September 24. /ITAR-TASS/. Russian non-governmental organizations are demanding a comprehensive investigation of the mass graves containing bodies of civilians near Donetsk. Local militias found the graves on September 23. Many of the victims are said to have been shot in the head at point-blank range. Just two days ago that territory had been under the control of Kiev's forces. Now it will be explored most thoroughly. Militias say they have discovered other graves, too, which will remain unexcavated for the time being.

en.itar-tass.com/world/751011

 

[bhramos]

Ukrainian prisoners voluntarily contribute to the restoration of art, as believe they feel that had been betrayed.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rx_R6id3EP4

 

[bhramos]

Gorlovskaya defenders. Part 1: Alexander and Igor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbUz-osfxHc

 

[bhramos]

Gorlovskaya defenders. Part 2: Victoria and Helena Victoria and Elena told military reporters why they went to war

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4_d34BjrKs

 

[bhramos]

Gorlovskaya defenders. Part 3: Forest, Poet and a sheepskin coat with the call the Forest Defenders, Poet and Tulupyev told that spodvigli them to join the army of the People's Republic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Vnmmnl903c

 

[bhramos]

Gorlovskaya defenders. Part 4: Romantic Defender Gorlovka, soldier callsign romantic explained why he joined the Army of the People's Republic of Donetsk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be3ePsdlcNE

 

[bhramos]

Correspondents "KP" most visited "hot spot truce" Donbass - Donetsk airport

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtiYebwTzj8

 

[bhramos]

Young 18 year old guy with the callsign Spartak protect their homeland from the neo-Nazis. When the enemy came to the Donbass, the young militiaman has not given up and took the weapon. Faith and fortitude helps him overcome the fear. More to these guys who rose to defend his home. The truth behind us, we will win! Bard shooting Alena Kochkina #SaveDonbassPeople #DonbassAgainstNazi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYLp8N3lYeE

 

[bhramos]

ZsU-23 militia in Donetsk!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzOIpwPhoTo

 

[@yourService]

There is an amazing article on Huffington Post.
The third point is very crucial regarding this thread. It states -
It's apparent that even a large segment of the "peace" community does not understand that US wars and US-orchestrated regime changes indirectly created Islamic State (and other Al Qaeda type terrorist groups) and that US drone (and other aerial) bombing is giving rise to MORE terrorism, rather than working to reduce it. These two articles "How the West Created the Islamic State" and "How ISIS Is Using Us to Get What It Wants" describe the dynamic. As in all wars, the leaders of both sides are opportunistically using each other to empower each other. Robert Greenwald's video (below) puts it most succinctly: "How Perpetual War Fuels Terrorism." (But the opposite is also true: terrorism fuels war). This is well-known by Western intelligence analysts and foreign policy experts, and it's garden variety war manipulation for everyone except the duped US public. (Borowitz isn't really joking when he reports: "Americans Who Have Not Read a Single Article About Syria Strongly Support Bombing It.") It's depressing otherwise to learn how many uninformed people there are that still think "bombing the village to save it" somehow can work. Such "war on terror" propaganda is actually effective on the liberal-minded who are more vulnerable to having their emotional buttons -- fear, hate, greed, false pride and blind loyalty -- pressed than it is on more pragmatic, cool-headed realists. It's being reported that a number of US journalists who should know better have even fallen for hyped terror threats used to justify the launching of bombing upon Syria.
Link to the article -
Why Do Americans Hate Beheadings But Love Drone Killings?�|�Coleen Rowley

 

[nrupatunga]

@pmaitra @brahmos and others

Russia, atleast officially is syaing that eastern regions get more powers within the ukraine federation while saying crimea is for us. I am not sure ukraine can take back crimea militarily from russia. Now coming to eastern ukraine, does anyone have any clear cut objectives?? What are the objectives of rebels in eastern ukraine?? How long can they keep on fighting?? Ukraine can play the game of attrition to its advantage. Unlike syria, where assad can bank on hezbullah, iran, iraq for manpower apart from syrians itself, what about in case of rebels in ukraine?? Am not sure how many can russia provide(?). Am not sure anyone has any idea for what exactly are they fighting for? And for how long?

How long will this civil war continue?? This is getting very similar to syria, where no one side is able to dominate.

 

[pmaitra]

ZsU-23 militia in Donetsk!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzOIpwPhoTo

Love that garden hose. Amazing shot. Thanks for sharing.

You can hear on guy screaming, "Zenitnaya Ustanovka," which means ZU-23-2.

 

[pmaitra]

@pmaitra @brahmos and others

Russia, atleast officially is syaing that eastern regions get more powers within the ukraine federation while saying crimea is for us. I am not sure ukraine can take back crimea militarily from russia. Now coming to eastern ukraine, does anyone have any clear cut objectives?? What are the objectives of rebels in eastern ukraine?? How long can they keep on fighting?? Ukraine can play the game of attrition to its advantage. Unlike syria, where assad can bank on hezbullah, iran, iraq for manpower apart from syrians itself, what about in case of rebels in ukraine?? Am not sure how many can russia provide(?). Am not sure anyone has any idea for what exactly are they fighting for? And for how long?

How long will this civil war continue?? This is getting very similar to syria, where no one side is able to dominate.

Good question. I have a feeling the militia will put more pressure during the winter and make more territorial gains. That is the time when Europe will be vulnerable to the threat of Russian gas export embargo. The problem is, these embargoes, and counter-embargoes hurt both the sides. So, this will also put Russia at a disadvantage. I think the situation now is who will blink first. On the other hand, I think Putin is waiting for an internal uprising in Ukraine against the current regime. There are all trapping for that. One could not be sure why it hasn't happened yet. If history does repeat, the Nazi thugs will turn around and attempt to bite the very hand that is feeding them now, if they get frustrated, i.e..

 

[bhramos]

Free New Russia is rebels goal

civil war don't have time limit

Russia can help with weapons whole war as it has huge arsenal of soviets stored for WWIII, there are volunteers from so many nations

 

[nrupatunga]

Good question. I have a feeling the militia will put more pressure during the winter and make more territorial gains. That is the time when Europe will be vulnerable to the threat of Russian gas export embargo. The problem is, these embargoes, and counter-embargoes hurt both the sides. So, this will also put Russia at a disadvantage. I think the situation now is who will blink first. On the other hand, I think Putin is waiting for an internal uprising in Ukraine against the current regime. There are all trapping for that. One could not be sure why it hasn't happened yet. If history does repeat, the Nazi thugs will turn around and attempt to bite the very hand that is feeding them now, if they get frustrated, i.e..

Free New Russia is rebels goal

civil war don't have time limit

Russia can help with weapons whole war as it has huge arsenal of soviets stored for WWIII, there are volunteers from so many nations

But does russia want a independent novorussia?? I feel it just wants a united ukraine(minus crimea) tilted towards russia instead of west/nato.

And also saying no time-limit, can it be the case?? After sometime both sides esp rebels in eastern ukraine will get desparate if they find no political results whoever much they may win on ground militarily. As i said, ukraine can play the game of attrition to its advantage. Can the rebles keep on fighting without any poltical results/benefits??

 

[pmaitra]

But does russia want a independent novorussia?? I feel it just wants a united ukraine(minus crimea) tilted towards russia instead of west/nato.

And also saying no time-limit, can it be the case?? After sometime both sides esp rebels in eastern ukraine will get desparate if they find no political results whoever much they may win on ground militarily. As i said, ukraine can play the game of attrition to its advantage. Can the rebles keep on fighting without any poltical results/benefits??

Russia did prefer a Ukraine outside of NATO and tilted towards it. However, that is less likely today.

Is Kiev playing the game of attrition? That is one way to look at it.

Poroshenko is not a fool. He knows that he faces two threats: (1) from the militia, and (2) from the Nazi-Fascists who brought about the coup.

Poroshenko also knows the fate of Saakashvili. He knows that if push comes to shove, the US will make him expendable. That is why he did not take US promises seriously, and he went ahead with the truce. He also knows that he faces a mortal threat from the Ukro-Nazis. That is why he prefers to send these Nazis in the guise of National Guard into Donbass to get killed. The less Nazis are left, the less chances of him taking a bullet in his head.

How thigs will pan out, we shall have to wait and see.

 

[nrupatunga]

Russia did prefer a Ukraine outside of NATO and tilted towards it. However, that is less likely today.

Is Kiev playing the game of attrition? That is one way to look at it.

Poroshenko is not a fool. He knows that he faces two threats: (1) from the militia, and (2) from the Nazi-Fascists who brought about the coup.

Poroshenko also knows the fate of Saakashvili. He knows that if push comes to shove, the US will make him expendable. That is why he did not take US promises seriously, and he went ahead with the truce. He also knows that he faces a mortal threat from the Ukro-Nazis. That is why he prefers to send these Nazis in the guise of National Guard into Donbass to get killed. The less Nazis are left, the less chances of him taking a bullet in his head.

How thigs will pan out, we shall have to wait and see.

Ok, maybe a noobish Q here. Who exactly is fighting the novorussian guys primarily?? Only the neo-nazi militia?? What about the regular army of ukraine??

 

[Eney]

Young 18 year old guy with the callsign Spartak protect their homeland from the neo-Nazis. When the enemy came to the Donbass, the young militiaman has not given up and took the weapon. Faith and fortitude helps him overcome the fear. More to these guys who rose to defend his home. The truth behind us, we will win! Bard shooting Alena Kochkina #SaveDonbassPeople #DonbassAgainstNazi

Excuse me, I am little confused. What do you mean by "neo-nazis"? Does it mean the Ukrainian army? Do you believe that all of them are national-socialists (or Nazis)? Why?

 

[@yourService]

Excuse me, I am little confused. What do you mean by "neo-nazis"? Does it mean the Ukrainian army? Do you believe that all of them are national-socialists (or Nazis)? Why?

Eney, please introduce yourself on the introduction section.
If you kindly go through the thread you will find numerous images and links to nazi leaning and openly glorifying activities, such as "suitcase, station, Russia". However, as respected member @Akim has claimed on several occasions that there is very few support which was in turn corrected by other senior members that those lunatics could be small in number but they have key positions in ministry, armed battalions, foreign investment etc. Hence, regarding your query, here are some links exposing the freedom fighters you will find not so amusing --------

Ukraine's Kiev Regime is not "Officially" A Neo-Nazi Government | Global Research

Ukraine's 'Romantic' Nazi Storm Troopers | Consortiumnews

De fijne jongens van Aidar - Politics.be

Now, regarding the proportion of neo nazis, I must say that not all of them are neo nazis. The punitive battalions are comprised of neo nazis and in the conventional military units there are some soldiers having similar beliefs. It's similar to German units in WW2. There were SS and Wehrmacht. While the SS regiments were made of nazi members there were some soldiers in Wehrmacht having nazi ideals.

N.B. These are all non Russian sources and I have listed only a few links related to punitive nazi battalions but not 'civilian' nazi groups.


Anyway, I am pretty sure you will enjoy being a member of DFI.