Civil war in Ukraine

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jouni

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I have my gibberish deflector turned on. :D

@jouni, I read up to this part:

Then stopped.

Thank you for wasting my precious half a minute.
I read it fully with thought and it is pretty heavy stuff. If you do not have the patience, maybe you know some intellectual member, who could read it and give his opinion. I would be interested to hear.

( seriously, no joking here ).
 
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pmaitra

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I read it fully with thought and it is pretty heavy stuff. If you do not have the patience, maybe you know some intellectual member, who could read it and give his opinion. I would be interested to hear.
You have posted the link, haven't you? Even if I give my opinion, it would be a "woulda coulda" opinion.

The rise of oil price was the reason behind "Russia's economic revival". Putin had hardly anything to do with it. The Russian's could have had a monkey with no eyes as president and still the economy would have grown and the rest. :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: Slava Rassiy !! :russia:
Oil price did help. No one denies that. However, going behind kleptocrats (Berezovsky), tax frauds (Khodorkovsky), church-porn (Pu$$y Riot), was also a credit that goes to Putin. Of course, these individuals are the darlings of the west (European values).

I can sense a lot of sour-grapey type feelings in your post. You cannot help it that Russia is energy rich. If Russia were so wretched, why doesn't the west stop obsessing about Russia then? Yeah, the answer is right there in the question. Russia is too important to be ignored.

Get ready for a new world, led by PRC, bolstered by Russia. :peace: :peace: :peace:
 

pmaitra

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"Ukraine will go to war in late March"--Zakharchenko

2/23/2015
DPR Head: Ukraine may resume combat operations in late March
Translated from Russian by J.Hawk

The head of the self-declared Donetsk People's Republic Aleksandr Zakharchenko announced that Ukraine is bringing up heavy equipment to the conflict zone and, in his opinion, might resume combat operations in late March or early April.

"We are beginning the withdrawal of heavy equipment, while Ukraine is bringing it up from Kharkov and Dnepropetrovsk. Seems to be there will be a provocation. Ukraine will go to war in late March or Early April. Ukraine needs war," Zakharchenko said during a Monday briefing.

J.Hawk's Comment: Yes, it does, though a lot depends not only on its own readiness to fight one, but also the willingness of Western powers (especially Europeans) to tolerate another round of fighting in Ukraine.

However, considering the state of Ukraine's economy and the need to keep the nationalists which constitute the main pillar of support for the junta, they have every incentive to risk another escalation. Who knows, maybe finally the West will start showering Ukraine with aid and money and ignore the IMF conditions? Because, to my mind, there seems to be a pattern of Ukrainian conflict activity: it is most likely to escalate when it just received foreign financial aid, and is the most likely to seek peace just as it needs another tranche. We'll see if the game continues after the IMF delivers its next tranche.
 

Gabriel92

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@pmaitra

Russia is important to many European countries since they are dependent toward the Russian gas. This is sad that they're still importing russian gas,they should look at other alternatives (from other countries,and there are many....).
Then Russia will sink :peace: :peace: :peace: (They need European money,if we don't buy their gas,who will ? )
 
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pmaitra

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@pmaitra

Russia is important to many European countries since they are dependent toward the Russian gas. This is sad that they're still importing russian gas,they should look at other alternatives (from other countries,and there are many....).
Then Russia will sink :peace: :peace: :peace: (They need European money,if we don't buy their gas,who will ? )
Russia and Europe are interdependent. Trade is an important facet of civilizations. You cannot build a civilization without trade.

  • It is against the interest of Russia to get involved in a war in Ukraine.
  • It is against the interests of EU to have a war in Ukraine.
  • It is against the interest of EU to impose sanctions on Russia.
  • It is against the interest of Russia to impose sanctions on EU.

You can talk about alternatives to Russian gas, and frankly, you cannot change the geographical fact that EU and Russia are connected as being part of one continent. You say there are many alternatives. I refute that, citing the geographical fact. Good luck shipping liquefied gas in ships, and prior to that, good luck building the infrastructure. :peace:

  • The Nord Stream was built just for that. To avoid potential trouble in the transit countries.
  • Again, the South Stream was meant to be just that, but the EU, apparently, doesn't want to work in its own interest.
  • Now, with Turk Stream, Russia made the Black Sea even more secure. Turkey is already upset with EU, and despite being a NATO member, is no longer interested in taking instructions from Washington DC. Greece makes EU less attractive. If that were to be an exception, the situation in Bulgaria, Hungary, and Serbia proves that EU is indeed a failure. On top of that, add the third recession of the EuroZone.
  • It would almost seem that Ukraine served the purpose, intentional or otherwise, to disrupt Russian gas supplies to EU. I see Russia making every effort to have a safe way to sell its gas to EU. Who gains by this disruption? Cui bono?

I sometimes wonder whether the policy makers on EU work in the interests of the people of EU.

Russia does not need European money. Russia needs quality goods. If Europe won't sell them, Russia will buy from PRC, of which, PRC makes quite a lot. A country that can send a man to space, can also substitute European goods with Chinese goods.

Coming to Russia needing Europe's money, well, not quite. Russia is more interested in building its gold reserves. If you continue to believe Russia needs Europe's money, then by all means do so. By Russia, I mean the Russian government. I don't care what individual oligarchs do.
 
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Gabriel92

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China makes quality goods ? Lol,let me laugh !
We could totally stop our gas imports from Russia,and we all should buy this :



I personally have one,i don't need the gas that is from russia algeria or whatever... :peace: :peace: :peace:
All Europeans should buy one,we will save money for more important projects,and russia will loose money. :russia:
I'm a genius or not ?

-----

Russian Federation Internal Ministry combat instructor Roman Gorshkov trains terrorists and participates in hostilities in the Donbas. PHOTOS

http://en.censor.net.ua/photo_news/...n_gorshkov_trains_terrorists_and_participates
 

pmaitra

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We could tomorrow if we want to. BUT. We do not have politicians with guts,here's the problem !!
So, your answer is EU does not have politicians with guts and so they are not imposing sanctions on Gazprom? Yet, these politicians had guts to impose sanctions on other sectors? Awww, how cute.

Keep 'em coming. :peace:
 

pmaitra

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Could Graham Philips be framed?

An interesting advice to Graham Philips aka Grisha Philipov from chrisinchch on the article entitled "Against the current," by Colonel Cassad.

GP in the Donbass
chrisinchch
2015-02-23 01:25 pm (UTC)

I think Graham needs to be VERY careful if & when he travels back to the "Home Office" Up load a copy of your entire computer to a cloud server or three (probably an RF one might be the safer bet) so you have proof that your laptop / tablet / phone doesn't contain / didn't have child porn or "terroristic threats" in unsent emails. A conviction (never mind the resulting prison sentence with you pointed out to certain inmates for special treatment!!) will keep you in Blighty for the duration and these pricks fight REAL DIRTY !! It may be something else . . . a half ounce of heroin in a travel bag or a flat or at your mothers house - you know - real dirty - you are a problem Graham for the very faded pinkish red empire & it's minions will stoop to the lowest levels to neutralise you. Take care !!

Regards & Respect - Chris in Ch-Ch
 

AVERAGE INDIAN

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Obama Makes Dire Strategic Mistake in Ukraine-John Browne

Financial and geo-political expert John Browne was an advisor on Russia to Prime Minister Margret Thatcher. So, does he think the war in Ukraine is a dire threat? Browne says, "Oh yes, I think it is dire particularly because President Obama has had the wrong end of the stick, and he follows a strategic mistake. When President Reagan and Secretary of State Gorbachev, with the assistance of Margret Thatcher, achieved an end to the cold war, in other words, the colder part of Second World War in the mid 1980's, it was agreed, if not in writing but tacitly, that neither side would try to poach on the old buffer states of NATO and the Warsaw Pact. From the Russian point of view, they see a number of countries have voted quite democratically, like Poland, to go into the European Union and be associated with NATO and things like that. They have also seen activity by the secret services of the West, most notably the CIA in the Ukraine, to persuade them to go. This has angered the Russians, and when you come to the Ukraine and Crimea, you are treading on vital interests of Russia. It is very similar to the situation in October of 1962, when Khrushchev of the Soviet Union decided to put intercontinental ballistic missiles in Cuba, right in the soft underbelly of the United States, threating the vital interests of the United States. In that confrontation, President Kennedy had to win even if it meant nuclear war. He had to win that battle. In this case, we have the West interfering in the soft underbelly of Russia, notably the Ukraine and in Crimea. This threatens the vital interest of Russia like a warm water port with access to the Eastern Mediterranean, which they have sought for 200 years. Putin, who enjoys 80 percent domestic support, has to win even if it means going to war."

On this turning into a nuclear war in Ukraine, Browne goes on to say, "This would have a very high risk of slipping into nuclear war. Russia has enormous ground forces, and Putin has updated the Russian armed forces tremendously. They have very sophisticated rocket weapons, and if we saw massive numbers of our troops being slaughtered, maybe we would be the first to press the nuclear button. . . . So, this is a desperate situation."

On the Greece bailout crisis, Browne says, "Germany has exerted its force. Basically, they have a four month reprieve, but even the funds that will come in on Tuesday of this week, they are going to have monitoring which the Greeks have accepted. They said they would never accept monitoring, and they have accepted monitoring and have accepted conditions. These are steps for Germany gradually turning the knot on Greece and getting them to heal. . . . This is the reality of real politics of major nations. . . . I think Germany has won. . . . How is the new Prime Minister of Greece going to sell this to the electorate who just voted him to do absolutely no corroboration with the West at all?"

On the U.S. economy, Browne says, "I think things are slipping because we have leadership of an appalling bad quality. . . . At the moment, we have massive injections of money . . . The total is $50 trillion of money that has been created out of nowhere. It is so-called 'click money' where it is no longer printed, but clicked on a computer. So, there is lots of money swirling around, but value is being eroded. It's giving us the pretense, the wonderful feeling that this is a great party. The band is fantastic, but if reality dawns and someone switches the lights on and the musical instruments go dark, what could go wrong? Reality sets in."

Obama Makes Dire Strategic Mistake in Ukraine-John Browne | Greg Hunter's USAWatchdog
 

AVERAGE INDIAN

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Ron Paul: U.S., EU Behind Ukraine Coup
West behind overthrow of Ukrainian government, former congressman says
Ron Paul: U.S., EU Behind Ukraine Coup

Image Credits: Kit Daniels / Infowars.com

by Kit Daniels | Infowars.com | February 23, 2015

The overthrow of the legally elected government of Ukraine was "was not only supported by U.S. and EU governments — much of it was actually planned by them," former congressman Dr. Ron Paul said.

In his weekly column posted Sunday, Dr. Paul blamed western interventionism for the death and destruction in Ukraine's ongoing civil war.

"Looking back at the events that led to the overthrow it is clear that without foreign intervention Ukraine would not be in its current, seemingly hopeless situation," he wrote. "By the end of 2013 [before the coup], Ukraine's economy was in ruins. The government was desperate for an economic bailout and then-president Yanukovych first looked west to the U.S. and EU before deciding to accept an offer of help from Russia."

That led to division within the country, but as Dr. Paul points out, if it wasn't for western intervention, the problem may have solved itself eventually instead of escalating into a full-blown civil war.

"The protests at the end of 2013 grew more dramatic and violent and soon a steady stream of U.S. and EU politicians were openly participating, as protesters called for the overthrow of the Ukrainian government," Dr. Paul added. "Senator John McCain made several visits to Kiev and even addressed the crowd to encourage them."

"Imagine if a foreign leader like Putin or Assad came to Washington to encourage protesters to overthrow the Obama administration!"

The protests, which were funded by billionaire activist George Soros, ultimately led to the overthrow of the government and the installation of politicians handpicked by the U.S. State Department.

Soros, who actively influences the politics of Russia-linked countries through various front groups, admitted his involvement in Ukraine during an interview with CNN's Fareed Zakaria.

"First on Ukraine, one of the things that many people recognized about you was that you during the revolutions of 1989 funded a lot of dissident activities, civil society groups in eastern Europe and Poland, the Czech Republic. Are you doing similar things in Ukraine?" Zakaria asked Soros.

"Well, I set up a foundation in Ukraine before Ukraine became independent of Russia, and the foundation has been functioning ever since and played an important part in events now," Soros responded.

» Ron Paul: U.S., EU Behind Ukraine Coup Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!
 

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Ukraine Year One, Syria Rebel Booster Changes Tune and More - RPI's McAdams and Jay Taylor Week in Review

 
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sgarg

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China makes quality goods ? Lol,let me laugh !
We could totally stop our gas imports from Russia,and we all should buy this :



I personally have one,i don't need the gas that is from russia algeria or whatever... :peace: :peace: :peace:
All Europeans should buy one,we will save money for more important projects,and russia will loose money. :russia:
I'm a genius or not ?
Is it an induction stove?? You talk like a child. I think you are on wrong forum as people here are much smarter than you.

You are not a propagandist for sure but only a fanboy.

Go to your politicians. Ask them to do whatever you want. This is not the place for venting your frustration.
 

sgarg

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pmaitra

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This Is The Biggest Problem Facing The World Today: 9 Countries Have Debt-To-GDP Over 300% | Zero Hedge

France - 280%
United Kingdom - 252%
Germany - 188%
USA - 233%

France and UK may jump a LOT but have no cash for a big war.
It is still USA (money can be printed as needed) or poor Germany (frugal people now pushed to pay Europe's bills).

Wars are expensive.
Most people cannot understand money beyond pieces of paper with weird symbols printed on them, such as, but not limited to, a half built pyramid.
 

sgarg

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To @jouni, how much money Finland has committed to Kiev?? Give us the numbers.

Propaganda is NOT A REPLACEMENT for action. Putin takes decisions based on reality on the ground; not based on sound waves coming from your mouth.
 
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pmaitra

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Why would the chocolate seller want EU peacekeepers in Donbass?


After the conclusion of the Minsk-2 talks, there has been a shaky truce in place. It is not perfect, and sporadic clashes are reportedly going on. Nonetheless, to a large extent, it has been beneficial, even if temporarily.
  • The cities of Donbas are not getting indiscriminately shelled.
  • Innocent cannon-fodder conscripts are not getting slaughtered.
  • The leaders, Putin, Merkel, and Hollande got a brief reprieve from a very pressing headache.

However, Poroshenko appears to be intent on somehow getting the EU peacekeepers into Donbass, and an article by The Saker, entitled "Debaltsevo fallout in Banderastan," explains what the motives behind such a demand could be. I quote this excerpt from this article:

. . .
Turns out I had "misunderestimated" Poroshenko. His idea is even crazier: he wants *EU* "peacekeepers"! This is what the official website of the President of the Ukraine says:

Ukraine considers the EU mission in the framework of the Common Security and Defense Policy the best option of peacekeeping operation in Donbas, as stated by President Petro Poroshenko at the meeting with Commissioner for European Neighbourhood Policy and Enlargement Negotiations Johannes Hahn in Kyiv.

The Head of State has outlined clear position: "Russia, as country-aggressor, cannot and will not take part in the peacekeeping operation". "Ukraine will not agree to a peacekeeping format, which threatens to legalize thousands of Russian militaries – we already have enough such "peacekeepers"," Petro Poroshenko noted.

The President has informed on the decision of the National Security and Defense Council to appeal to the UN Security Council with a request for an international peacekeeping mission to ensure the preservation of peace in Donbas and control the Ukrainian-Russian border in Donetsk and Luhansk regions. "The format of the European Union Police Mission is preferable," the President added.

Am I the only one who is detecting a distinctly American "handwriting" behind this latest idea? Look again: the idea is this – first go to the UN and when the Russians and Chinese veto it, then turn to the EU and use EU states to make a "coalition of the willing". Why? Let me spell out the rationale here:

The prime goal of the USA was to get Russia to militarily intervene in the Donbass to trigger a continental war. Now that this has clearly failed, they want the Europeans to enter the Donbass with exactly the same goal. Once the EU peacekeepers are deployed, all it would take is a bloody false flag (an artillery strike, or a bomb) killing enough EU peacekeepers to raise the immediate need to protect them. Except that the EU does not have any "EU armed forces" so can you guess who would be sent it? Exactly – NATO.

Will the Europeans fall for that? I doubt it. Even the Eurocretins seemed to have lost their taste for crazy US Neocon schemes. Besides, Russia is not Serbia and there is no way the EU will bypass the UNSC for a military operation, not without triggering a huge political crisis inside Europe. To me this latest plans smacks of something McCain and Saakashvili could have cooked up and not something coming out of this White House. God knows I have no sympathy for the Obama Administration or for the Eurocretins in Brussels, but this latest stunt is dumb even by their standards.
 
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