AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[EagleOne]

Work on AMCA to begin by Mid 2011

India's Aeronautical Development Agency which is currently fast tracking its work on development of Tejas MK-II aircraft ,will also officially start its work on development of countries Next Generation 5th Gen fighter aircraft from mid of 2011 onwards .

Aeronautical Development Agency which is currently developing Tejas MK-2, which will be powered by American GE F414 higher thrust (98kn) will have its first flight by 2014 and will hit production by 2016

Aeronautical Development Agency has already studied official Air Staff Requirement (ASR) submitted by Indian Air force earlier this year and also has been working unofficially on the design of AMCA and other technology for a while now .

Official of ADA have told idrw.org that ADA plans to have first flight of AMCA by 2018-19 time frame ,since most of the design characters of the aircraft have been already done, but the design is still kept for improvement , which means design has not been frozen yet by ADA .

ADA had earlier has shown a wind tunnel model of AMCA in last years Aero India 2009 , a final or a close AMCA design models may be reveled in next year Aero India 2011 air show claims defence expert Rakesh sharma .

AMCA was earlier called the Medium Combat Aircraft, and basic designs of first sketches where available in late 90"²s , MCA or even AMCA is still not officially sanctioned Project by government of India ,it was mostly in house Research and Development by ADA .

Official funding will mark the official development of the aircraft it self , AMCA is projected to have Max take off weight not exceeding 25 tones very similar to Mig-29 , with" Full Stealth" characters as requested by Indian Air Force , which will be supported by locally built active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar which will be likely spin off of AESA radar which is under development for Tejas MK-2 .

It is likely that the Kaveri Mk-2 engine presently being developed by French Company Snecma and DRDO's Gas Turbine Research Establishment will be used for the AMCA.but ADA will also have GE's F-414 has back up in case Kaveri Mk-2 does not hit production by 2016 . Kaveri Mk-2 is likely to also power Tejas MK-1 when Ge F-404 engines which currently powers them will come up for engine change .

Work on AMCA to begin by Mid 2011

 

[maomao]

This is how MCA could LOOK!

This is how MCA could LOOK!

 

[ahmedsid]

The MCA Is supposed to be fully stealthy right? But This doesnt look so stealthy to me!! Especially with the External Hardpoints. I mean, F22 too does have external hard points to be used in a situation where stealth is not a priority, but this doesnt look so. God Speed

 

[maomao]

The MCA Is supposed to be fully stealthy right? But This doesnt look so stealthy to me!! Especially with the External Hardpoints. I mean, F22 too does have external hard points to be used in a situation where stealth is not a priority, but this doesnt look so. God Speed

These r just designs nothing more, most of the weapons will be kept in the compartments and launched henceforth!

 

[gogbot]

WE Alredy know How the AMCA will look

The Current design is most likely an improvement on this one. It is highly unlikely that any major changes to the basic structure of the airframe.

 

[Rahul Singh]

AMCA design has gone considerable change since Aero India 2009 and it might look drastically different from one it was displayed in 2009. I believe Aero India 2011 will be very interesting considering it will reveal close to final looks of AMCA.

 

[hitenray09]

can nyone say be apart from wind tunnel design nything new has happened for mca?

 

[Tshering22]

Mark my words, going by the Sarkari dodo policies of government agencies, if we take a very optimistic estimate don't expect to see AMCA in IAF colors until 2025 minimum. That's the maximum optimism one can expect from ADA/HAL/whatever labs are there other than these for AMCA.

 

[nitesh]

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2010/20101024/main4.htm

While the indigenously developed Light Combat Aircraft, Tejas, is expected to receive operational clearance in the next two months and its induction into the IAF is scheduled for next year, the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has embarked upon a project to develop its own fifth-generation fighter aircraft.

The proposed DRDO aircraft would be in the medium-weight (20-tonne) category and different from the joint Indo-Russian fifth-generation fighter that is on the cards, which is in the heavier 30-tonne category like the Su-30.

"The seed project for the new aircraft has started and is expected to be complete in about 18 months," P.S. Subramanyam, Director, Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), and head of the Tejas project, told The Tribune here today. The seed project would define the technical and operational requirements and lay out the broad concepts for developing the aircraft.

"Our proposed fighter would be a twin-engined aircraft in the category of the MiG-29," Subramanyam said.

On the status of the Tejas project, Subramanyam said the aircraft trials for launching R-73 short-range anti-aircraft missiles and 1000 lbs bombs have been successful. "The 10 prototypes and pre-production variants have undertaken 1,450 sorties, which include about 200 with weapons," he said.

The IAF has projected a total requirement for about 120 Tejas and 16 two-seater trainer variants for equipping seven squadrons, while the Navy wants 57 aircraft of this type.

The ADA is also looking at integrating the Israeli Python air-to-air missile with the Tejas to meet the IAF requirements, while the Navy wants it to examine the possibility of the Israeli Derby missiles that it already uses on the Sea Harrier. The Tejas' avionics system, Subramanyam said, was open-ended so that weapon systems could be changed over seamlessly.

Of the 200-odd Tejas to be produced, each of which would cost Rs 200 crore, about 100 would be powered by the American General Electric 414 engine. Subramanyam said that a new project had been taken up for the development of the Kaveri engine in collaboration with French firm SNECMA that would meet the revised weight and flight parameters of the Tejas.

 

[hitenray09]

if they can maintain the mca project and complete it on schedule along wth lca then its good.

 

[nitesh]

Mark my words, going by the Sarkari dodo policies of government agencies, if we take a very optimistic estimate don't expect to see AMCA in IAF colors until 2025 minimum. That's the maximum optimism one can expect from ADA/HAL/whatever labs are there other than these for AMCA.

What does the bolded portion means?

 

[hitenray09]

i think delays by PSUs who take eveything for granted, delays in production and development no problem governments wont say a thing to us if says anything turn deaf to them

 

[Patriot]

EXCLUSIVE: Official Wishlist of Evolutionary Technologies for India's 5thGen AMCA

If the specialised team led by Indian aerospace scientist Dr AK Ghosh achieves what it has set out to (a huge IF, with all due respect), then one of the most dramatic aspects of India's concept fifth generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) will be its cockpit and man-machine interface. For starters, unlike the cluttered, resoundingly less-than-fourth-generation cockpit of the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA Tejas), the AMCA cockpit could have a panoramic active-matrix display. Next, switches, bezels and keypads could be replaced with touch screen interfaces and voice commands. Finally, what the team wants is for the AMCA pilot to have a helmet-mounted display system that allows the jettisoning of a HUD from the AMCA cockpit altogether. Some pretty hardcore stuff. But the idea is this -- if India is building its own fifth generation fighter aircraft (not to be confused with the Indo-Russian FGFA/PAK-FA), and believes it can deliver, then aim for the damn stars. I've got my hands on AMCA documents that provide the first detailed view of just how ambitious the programme actually is. Let me run you through some of them.

The AMCA team has already asked private industry in the country to explore the feasibility of creating primary panoramic displays and other avionics displays that would befit a fifth generation cockpit environment. But the cockpit is just one of an ambitious official technology wishlist for the AMCA.

The envisaged changes begin at the very basic -- system architecture -- and look towards a triplex fly-by-light electro-optic architecture with fiber optic links for signal and data communications, unlike the electric links on the Tejas platform. And unlike centralized architecture on the Tejas, the AMCA proposes to sport a distributed architecture with smart sub-systems. Similarly, unlike the LCA's centralised digital flight control computer (DFCC), the AMCA could have a distributed system with smart remote units for data communication with sensors and actuators, a system that will necessitate much faster on-board processors.

Next come sensors. The mechanical gyros and accelerometers on the Tejas will need to evolve on the AMCA into fiber optic gyros, ring laser gyros and MEMS gyros. The pressure probes and vanes that make up the air-data sensors will evolve into an optical and flush air data system, and position sensors will be linear/rotary optical encoders. Significantly, actuators -- currently electro-hydraulic/direct drive -- could be electro-hydrostatic to accrue substantive weight savings on the AMCA. Sensor fusion for an overarching situation picture goes without saying.

The AMCA could feature highly evolved integrated control laws for flight, propulsion, braking, nose wheel steer and fuel management and adaptive neural networks for fault detection, identification and control law reconfiguration.

Unlike the Tejas, which features an avionics systems architecture based on functionality-based individual computer systems connected on MIL-STD-1553B buses and RS 422 links, the AMCA's avionics systems architecture will feature a central computational system connected internally and externally on an optic fiber channel by means of multiport connectivity switching modules. In such a system, functionality will be mapped on resourcred optimally and reallocated when faults occur. At least, that's the idea. Data communications on the AMCA's processing modules will be through a high-speed fiber channel bus, IEEE-1394B-STD. The connectivities will be switched by means of a multiport switching matrix, with data speeds of 400MB/second.

The AMCA could have integrated radio naviation systems, where all functions earlier done by analogue circuits will be shifted onto the shoulders of digital processors. Communication system will be based on software radio ranging from UHF to K band, with data links for digital data/voice data and video.

Algorithms will evolve substantially too. While the Tejas features almost no decision aid, the AMCA pilot could have at his command the ability to plan attack strategies, avoid strategies, retreat strategies and evasive strategies for himself and his buddies. Limited fault recording and limited coverage in the maintenance and diagnostics algorithms on the LCA will evolve into far more advanced ones allowing extensive coverage.

This is an official technology wishlist for the AMCA. If it sounds far-fetched and overreaching -- and it well may -- it still provides a glimpse into what the programme is looking at for what will undoubtedly be India's most ambitious indigenous aerospace venture. Before I forget, here's a nice little slide illustrating the AMCA's envisaged operational envelope (subject of course to change).

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/11/exclusive-official-wishlist-ohttp://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/11/exclusive-official-wishlist-of.htmlf.html

 

[mayfair]

EXCLUSIVE: Official Wishlist of Evolutionary Technologies for India's 5thGen AMCA

This is an extremely ambitious venture and good luck to all involved. But I can't help but ask- Do we really have the ability, the knowledge-base or the resources to pull off something like this?

 

[Rahul Singh]

EXCLUSIVE: Official Wishlist of Evolutionary Technologies for India's 5thGen AMCA

For starters, unlike the cluttered, resoundingly less-than-fourth-generation cockpit of the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA Tejas), the AMCA cockpit could have a panoramic active-matrix display.

I could have enjoyed this article down to last word without a single break but only few seconds down the line i had a bitter taste of poor analysis by Shiv Aroor so i stopped there and decided post.

I have seen many picture of many 4th generation fighters and of 3rd generation fighters till this date. But i am yet to see a 4th generation fighter(not 4.5 or 4.5++), forget 3rd generation, which features a cockpit free from dial pointers with three main MFDs and two smart small back-up displays which works independent of those main display and also acts as 'back to home' information display in case of failure of primary displays.

Now, below i have posted the pictures of the cockpits of some very popular 4th generation aircraft. It is up to the viewer to decided whether Shiv Aroor is right in his analysis which says "unlike the cluttered, resoundingly less-than-fourth-generation cockpit of the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA Tejas)" ?

Mig-29U

Mirage 2000

F-18

HF-XX Tejas

 

[A chauhan]

My point is that how can we achieve something until we dream it ? so it's good to have high ambitions. Come on India dikhado ! :happy_8:

 

[Rahul Singh]

This is an extremely ambitious venture and good luck to all involved. But I can't help but ask- Do we really have the ability, the knowledge-base or the resources to pull off something like this?

Indeed it is ambitious and being ambitious is good not bad! True we do not have all the capability required to pull up listed now and might not have even by 2015. But beyond 2015 we might have half the capability and beyond 2020 may be full. You know when wishlist for LCA project was written the skeptics had openly called it 'Day Dreaming' because the list had technologies like Quadriplex Fly-By-Wire and advanced carbon composites. This is the reason the government had sanctioned the project in two phases(TD then PV). Successfully completing TD phase was the road to PV, if failed, the entire project was to be scrapped. But when TD-1 flew on 4th January 2001 the entire skeptical community was stunned. Back then each and every to be used in LCA was to be designed and produced by DRDO. But now as you shall be aware that there are various privet sector firms which will help ADA, be designing those panoramic displays or HMDS or aid for data fusion. As far as fly-by-light is concerned then people should note that DRDO is already in collaboration with BAE developing or have already developed fly-by-light controls for LCH.

This wishlist is ambitious but it may not be for Mk-1 version, it can very well be for the Mk-2 variant. So ADA and our defence research establishments have time may be 15 years counting from today.

 

[Rahul Singh]

Some good information posted on Lifefist regarding AMCA wishlist by Prashun Sen Gupta

A couple of observations on the projected AMCA:

1) The Tejas Mk2's cockpit will be far less cluttered than is the case with that of the Mk1 variant. In fact, the HUD can easily be removed TODAY as the HMD is a far more capable replacement. In addition, direct voice input (DVI) of the kind on board the EF-2000 Typhoon will also go on board the Mk2 M-MRCA.

2) Panoramic AMLCDs are already on board airliners like the A350 and COMEC AC-319. In fact, at the 2008 Airshow China in Zhuhai I saw them on display and they are reportedly on board the 5th-generation J-XX which made its maiden flight in Chengdu on November 8.

3) All these technologies will FIRST be introduced on the 18.5-tonne FGFA (the PAK-FA will be 22 tonnes, but will bear some external resemblance to the FGFA). Given the fact that the Jaguar IS and Mirage 2000H/THs, after being upgraded, will continue to be operational for another 20 years, their eventual replacement--the AMCA--is unlikely to become operational before 2035.

4) Triplex fly-by-light flight control systems were first tested and flight-certified on a Jaguar testbed by BAE Systems way back in the early 1980s and it is surprising why the IAF is not teaming up with BAE Systems to incorporate such fibre-optic-based technologies on board the to-be-upgraded Jaguar IS of the IAF.

5) Ring-laser gyros are already on the Tejas Mk1--it is the Honeywell H-42L.

6) Even on the Tejas Mk2, individual processors will give way to the core avionics processor that DARE has already developed. The HUMS on board the Tejas Mk2 will be a generation ahead of that now on the Su-30MKI. Even the comms radio suite, data links and IFF transponder will be of the software-defined type.

 

[Rahul Singh]

dont ask me the details but i personally know a family very high up in the bjp and years back they told me the LCA project start in 1976 ....so do your calcs - the delay has been mid-boggling excuses ( valid or otherwise ) not withstanding

The R&D labs always propose to develop something for targeted user but the project is never considered rolling until there is official agreement. Take the case of MCA now called AMCA. You know i am seeing reports regarding MCA since 2003 and first among them is a TOI article published on some day in 2003 where APJ Abdul Kalam was quoted saying "Besides LCA we are also developing twin engine Medium Combat Aircraft". Now will you consider that date as a beginning? Or for that matter 'Today' when Shiv Aroor reported ADA's wishlist for AMCA ?.......... Doesn't matter how long the talk will go on AMCA, doesn't matter since when ADA is doing preparatory work on AMCA, doesn't matter how many wind tunnel models of AMCA ADA has tested till this date and has been put on display at various 'Aero India', doesn't matter how many detailed booklets on AMCA has been made public by ADA, the Project AMCA will never begin until IAF and ADA officially inks or/and IAF lays down the ASR.

Similarly, doesn't matter how long LCA was in talks, the first ASR by IAF was laid only in 1989. So by even considering worst case the LCA project never begun before 1989.

 

[Anshu Attri]

Plans for Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft


http://www.hindu.com/2010/11/21/stories/2010112165812200.htm

HYDERABAD: India has embarked upon an ambitious project to indigenously design and develop a fifth generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) by 2017.

The government released Rs. 100 crore last month to the Bangalore-based Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), which will spearhead the project, to prepare feasibility studies in 18 months. The ADA is an autonomous organisation under the Ministry of Defence.

Disclosing this to reporters here on Saturday, ADA Director and Programme Director (Combat Aircraft) P.S. Subramanyam said AMCA, when developed and produced, would probably be the first medium combat aircraft with 20 tonne weight in the world. Similar aircraft being developed by the United States and Russia are in the range of 30 to 35 tonnes.

Mr. Subramanyam said AMCA was meant to fill the gap for the Indian Air Force as the Light Combat Aircraft (Tejas) would meet the low-end requirement and Sukhoi-30, the higher end. Once inducted, the IAF would have small, medium and heavy combat aircraft.

He said the AMCA would have an operational range of 30 km, equipped with stealth technology to prevent detection by enemy radar and capability for super-cruise flight. A large part of the aircraft would be made of carbon composites. The entire project would cost $ 2 billion.

Once the funds were received after the submission of the feasibility report, the agency planned to develop two technology demonstrators and seven prototypes, he said. ADA was identifying technologies for 6 {+t} {+h} generation combat aircraft. Earlier, Mr. Subramanyam made a presentation on Technological Challenges in Future Fighter Aircraft at the Aviation Conclave which concluded on Saturday.

Dr. A.R. Upadhya, Director, National Aerospace Laboratories (NAL), told reporters that the feasibility report for developing a Regional Transport Aircraft with 90-seater capacity would be submitted to the government by April next year. The report would look into various aspects, including configuration systems, whether it should be powered by a turboprop or turbofan engine.