AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[Crusader53]

Where did you read about Navy's need for a quick solution? Had the navy been in need for F-35C, they by now must have signed an agreement with Americans to buy 40-50 F-35C, 3-4 E-2D Hawkeye and for providing technical support in developing a CTAOBAR IAC equipped with EMLS.

I didn't start the point about "quick solutions". That said, it of course depends on what you define as "quick"? Nonetheless, I do expect to see India purchase the F-35C, Hawkeye, and EMALS for the IAC-2. Which, is many years off. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if it was 3-5 years before contracts are signed and another 3-5 before they enter service.

 

[Rahul Singh]

I didn't start the point about "quick solutions". That said, it of course depends on what you define as "quick"? Nonetheless, I do expect to see India purchase the F-35C, Hawkeye, and EMALS for the IAC-2. Which, is many years off. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if it was 3-5 years before contracts are signed and another 3-5 before they enter service.

Longer the IAC-2 takes to built lesser the chance will be F-35C seeing Naval colours. Unlike what you thinks, navy is exploring quite range of possibilities to equip her carriers with 5th generation fighters. In past Admiral(retd) Arun Praksh had indicated towards Navy's intention to get fifth generation fighters from either semi-indigenous or fully indigenous program by saying F-35 as a carrier born fighter is very tempting but navy prefers indigenous solution over it for some reasons.

 

[gogbot]

I didn't start the point about "quick solutions". That said, it of course depends on what you define as "quick"? Nonetheless, I do expect to see India purchase the F-35C, Hawkeye, and EMALS for the IAC-2. Which, is many years off. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if it was 3-5 years before contracts are signed and another 3-5 before they enter service.

EMALS for IAC-2 is very much possible.

And Navy has shown interest in both Hawkeye and F-35.
But time and again the Navy has shown preference to Domestic arms as opposed to imported one's.

Given our own AWACS project , and FGFA.
And under your own admission the long time frame for the IAC-2.
The Navy will pick the indigenous option if it presents it self in the mean while.

The new DPP coming out next year , pretty much says the navy can only get Make Indian for all future tenders.
Unless its a direct government to government sale.

 

[Crusader53]

EMALS for IAC-2 is very much possible.

And Navy has shown interest in both Hawkeye and F-35.
But time and again the Navy has shown preference to Domestic arms as opposed to imported one's.

Given our own AWACS project , and FGFA.
And under your own admission the long time frame for the IAC-2.
The Navy will pick the indigenous option if it presents it self in the mean while.

The new DPP coming out next year , pretty much says the navy can only get Make Indian for all future tenders.
Unless its a direct government to government sale.

India can't go in alone in the desired timeline. Especially, when it already has so many critical programs currently on going. From the LCA, MCA, PAK-FA, and MMRCA. So, expect to see the Indian Navy to take a more direct route. Which, will likely see it purchase a lot of Naval Equipment directly from the US. Including LM-2500's, EMALS, Hawkeyes, and yes F-35's. Plus, much much more...........

 

[neo29]

Indian Navy immediate requirement is more 4.5th gen fighters so that it can take the independent and take load off IAF. 5th gen fighters will be a possibility in the IN after 4 5 years after IAF has inducted it.

But it is highly recommended for IN to go for a homemade 5th gen fighter rather than F-35. Surely buying US fighters for IN will have a risk of being bugged and knowing their location especially at sea. The same applies for IAF.

 

[plugwater]

CVRDE to develop gearboxes for advanced medium combat aircraft

Combat Vehicles Research and Development Establishment (CVRDE), Avadi, will design and develop gearboxes for India's advanced medium combat aircraft.

At a press conference, CVRDE director P. Sivakumar said the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) has promised the new project after the Aircraft Mounted Accessory Gearbox (AMAGB), used in Light Combat Aircraft (LCA-Tejas), was approved by the Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification (CEMILAC).

CVRDE, Avadi, had indigenously designed and developed AMAGB for LCA – Tejas and till date these gearboxes have undergone more than 2200 hours of flight testing with 1465 flights. CEMILAC 'type approval' certification was mandatory for induction into the Indian Air Force, he said.

"AMAGB is a very critical line replacement unit for the LCA and forms a very important part of secondary power system. It is a light weight (40 kg), compact, high speed, single input, multi-output gearbox with a maximum power transmission capability of 185 kW at a rated speed of 16,810 rpm," Mr. Sivakumar said.

The castings are made of magnesium alloy and the gearbox has its own self-contained lubrication system. AMAGB operates in two modes. In the starter mode, it aids in starting the engine through jet fuel starter. In accessory mode, it drives two hydraulic pumps and an integrated drive generator. These accessories, in turn, generate hydraulic and electrical power for the aircraft, said C. Chandrasekaran, additional director, CVRDE.

S. Ganesan, head, aircraft division, CVRDE, said the AMAGB gearbox had undergone strenuous environment tests, altitude tests, shock test, vibration and other necessary tests.

The gearbox has undergone 1000 hours of endurance test, he said.

Apart from design and development of manned and unmanned ground vehicles, CVRDE was also developing products to the demands of Indian Air Force and Indian Navy, Mr. Sivakumar said.

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/article940713.ece

 

[RPK]

 

[Kunal Biswas]

From other Forum..

Almost 2 years late but someone called Luptonga uploaded this key note speech from Aero India 2009 which has crap audio and video but is fairly informative on the Swedish view concerning aircraft requirements with things like continuous upgrades.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtqlrYC2Kig

SwAF's Anders Silwer highlights a few key features. One being on broadband low observability and also supercruising as not only fuel saving but important to avoid tracking from what he sees is the more advanced developments on IR-sensors in the coming future.

He also mentions Red Flag 08 and noted about the SwAF squadron commander "the only thing that prevented his smile from going all around of his head was his two ears"...

A few fuzzy snapshots:

Multirole, long term flexibility, affordability for more hours in the air. Quick and easy to upgrade. High levels of NCW with multiple datalinks. BB LO, SC. He seems especially excited about the new avionics architecture for rapid capability insertions.

Address all spectras. This work has been ongoing since day 1 and new technology has been inserted over time. The Swedish Aerospace Industries foresees in their National Research Agenda the use of more nanotechnology on the jet.

Beyond NG?

BTW. On beyond NG.. Swedish industry has a view that building up more Gripen countries as allies and technological partners through technology transfer and education programs/scholarships (Thailand being an example) it will help to form a kind of Gripen coalition that shares similar views/requirements for a future generation fighter. This would then also be useful in negotiations with non-Gripen countries with their own needs for a new jet built under a collaborative partnership. The Swedish Aerospace Industries target for 2020 is to have Gripen in 8 countries.

This is a good news..
One more option besides Russian, US..

 

[nrj]

Chinese J-20's Impact on India & AMCA

Sudden appearance of grainy images of Chinese first Stealth fighter J-20 made quite a buzz in defence forums and blogs around the world, some experts still believed at that time it to be a handiwork of Chinese Photoshop artist, but that believe quickly faded away when better high resolution images started appearing on the internet and soon first flight of the J-20 took place.

First look at Chinese J-20 and threat level to India: Aircraft seemed to be the world's first Stealthy Strike fighter aircraft (F-22 and Pak-Fa are considered Air Superiority fighter) which has been optimized for ground attack role, sheer length of the aircraft (estimated to be 60-65 feet long) suggests that, it not only can carry heavy weapons but also larger internal fuel for long range missions, PLAAF must have kept possible future conflicts in mind while working on Air staff requirement. and aircraft like J-20 will have more than 3000km in range which suggests that whole of North India along with North Eastern sector (Possible conflict Zone) will be under its range, a medium range aircraft in class of Mig-29 was good enough for possible conflicts with S Korea, Japan or even Taiwan but Chinese going for a Heavy Stealthy strike aircraft suggests the threat level India might face from this aircraft in future only goes to higher level.

Design Characters: J-20's bubble canopy and frontal air intake section resembles American F-22, but resembles disappear when you spot canards and S-Shaped DSI optimized air intake, Chinese experience on working of DSI intake for JF-17 and J-10B seems to have come handy for J-20 design .Aircraft seems to be powered by Russian Al-31F Variant or Chinese WS-15 engine which still needs to be clarified.

Possible Weakness: First flight of J-20 also reviled that aircraft did not incorporated any internal weapons bay, which aviation expert suggests that J-20 which flew was just a Technology Demonstrator aircraft and Chinese are still at least five years away from fielding a true 5th Generation fighter aircraft, another possible weakness has been with Chinese is they have struggled to operationalize their turbofan engines (Ws-10 for J-10 and Ws-13 for JF-17 are still not operational) will Ws-15 be ready to power J-20 ? Or they will have Al-31 variants? .

Impact on AMCA? : IAF wants AMCA to be a Multi-role aircraft which can switch between role of fighter aircraft and a ground attack aircraft, ADA and DRDO had suggested AMCA to be a Strike aircraft in medium weight category (20-25 tonne) but which was turned down by IAF , will Arrival of J-20 in the picture change the scenario now ? No says our Indian Aviation Defence experts Rakesh Sharma, he also adds that IAF has done a right decision to stick with fully Stealthy Multi-role aircraft rather than a Semi-stealthy Strike aircraft, he told that if AMCA had turned up has a Strike aircraft it could never had made much difference in contrast to china since due to its limited range it could only have strike options in smaller cities rather than Chinese capital Beijing. Arrival of J-20 will not have much impact on design aspect of the AMCA since ADA has been tasked with a very strict requirement lay downed by IAF's ASR (Air Staff Requirements). But since MOD will carry out a study on Chinese J-20 soon ,IAF will also be briefed on it and if IAF feels AMCA requires any changes , ADA and DRDO will be notified but it seems that J-20's arrival will have no impact on AMCA project .

Source: INN

 

[Pintu]

^^^^ Good article indeed , very informative , BTW , wind tunnel does not have canards. May design be evolved on later course.

Regards

 

[nrj]

^^^^ Good article indeed , very informative , BTW , wind tunnel does not have canards. May design be evolved on later course.

Regards

Right Pintuda. In fact we shouldn't be looking for significant canards on AMCA but, control surfaces are required to benefit maneuverability. PAKFA's frontal control surfaces are very impressive as it won't affect observability to any noticeable extent.

Let see how AMCA's design progresses, maybe Aero India will bring some insights....

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Right Pintuda. In fact we shouldn't be looking for significant canards on AMCA but, control surfaces are required to benefit maneuverability. PAKFA's frontal control surfaces are very impressive as it won't affect observability to any noticeable extent.

Let see how AMCA's design progresses, maybe Aero India will bring some insights....

Sukhoi is calling it a Movable Leading Edge Canards create additional radar-reflecting area. A MLE, providing many of the benefits of canards (additional lift, additional maneuverability) are less observable in the radio spectrum.

The additional benefit of this particular MLE design is that it may be able to serve as an additional intake ramp, to slow down the air hitting the engine compressor face from supersonic to subsonic speeds. Aircraft with more than one intake ramp generally slow down air more efficiently, which means that they are faster than other aicraft.

http://defenceforumindia.com/showthread.php?t=8276&page=73

Its looks nice...
.......................

 

[rakesh]

is India develop any stealth technology?

 

[Armand2REP]

Its looks nice...
.......................

It is called a movable LERX.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

It is called a movable LERX.

Sukhoi is calling it a Movable Leading Edge...
Besides its role not only of LERX but also canard..

I take Sukhoi terminology coz they developed it..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

is India develop any stealth technology?

In JV with Russia, FGFA and with other partners in AMCA..

 

[rakesh]

In JV with Russia, FGFA and with other partners in AMCA..

In FGFA project does Russia give the Stealth technology? They can't give us sensitive technology us

 

[Armand2REP]

Sukhoi is calling it a Movable Leading Edge...
Besides its role not only of LERX but also canard..

I take Sukhoi terminology coz they developed it..

Sukhoi terminology is run through machine translation. If you follow that rule, Sukhoi is called "DRY". lol

 

[Kunal Biswas]

In FGFA project does Russia give the Stealth technology? They can't give us sensitive technology us

Yes..
Russia and India always shared deep end technology compare to other countries, Stealth tech exsist since 70s, Indian contribution in PAK-FA project is big as we did most on composite deign on aircraft, this will be more enhanced and most metal parts like titanium/Aluminium allow will be reduced by Composite used by us..

 

[Parthy]

Yes..
Russia and India always shared deep end technology compare to other countries, Stealth tech exsist since 70s, Indian contribution in PAK-FA project is big as we did most on composite deign on aircraft, this will be more enhanced and most metal parts like titanium/Aluminium allow will be reduced by Composite used by us..

Kunal, do our HAL people are working in with Russian technicians currently?? scenarios will be like same as what happened with Su 30 Mki.. Once they're completely done with their part in Pak-FA, from Indian side the composite changes will be done as said by you and so will be called FGFA...