AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[Rahul Singh]

^^^^ Good article indeed , very informative , BTW , wind tunnel does not have canards. May design be evolved on later course.

Regards

I don't think AMCA needs to go for canards as long as it gets TVC. Unlike PAK-FA and J-20 AMCA will be in medium class and elevators coupled with TVC sounds sufficient with regard to adequate control surfaces. However weight of aft fuselage including nose(which will be greatly affected by weight of MMR(more T/R more weight) and IRST) will decide if Canard or LEVECON is required or not.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Kunal, do our HAL people are working in with Russian technicians currently?? scenarios will be like same as what happened with Su 30 Mki.. Once they're completely done with their part in Pak-FA, from Indian side the composite changes will be done as said by you and so will be called FGFA...

People of HAL and DRDO are in Russia not working directly in the project but as Advisers and observers..
Same thing in India too..

SU-30MKI was done in same way, SU-30MKI structurally very different from SU-35 or SU-30, The first prototype in Russia of MKI was build in-presence of Indian Observers and Advisers..

 

[p2prada]

AMCA will not have canards. We will go for LERX, same as LCA and it helps in RCS reduction compared to Canards.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

the question is will the pak-fa feature plasma stealth technology and will the russians share it with us?

 

[SATISH]

the question is will the pak-fa feature plasma stealth technology and will the russians share it with us?

The Russians are stuck with powering the generator.

 

[p2prada]

The Russians are stuck with powering the generator.

I am guessing the PAKFA will need 3 engines. 2 for flying and 1 for powering the generator. A Turbokat or should I say Turbobear...jokes jokes.

 

[SATISH]

I am guessing the PAKFA will need 3 engines. 2 for flying and 1 for powering the generator. A Turbokat or should I say Turbobear...jokes jokes.

Well you would be surprised...it actually worked on the TU 160 black jack.

 

[p2prada]

Well you would be surprised...it actually worked on the TU 160 black jack.

Wow. Is that official or internet rumour? At ~100 tons of thrust, it is possible I guess.

 

[nrj]

I am guessing the PAKFA will need 3 engines. 2 for flying and 1 for powering the generator. A Turbokat or should I say Turbobear...jokes jokes.

Talking of multiple engines, American Blackswift developers wishes to use 3 engines -

"A turbojet engine would be needed for the take off and initial acceleration. A jet engine would then be needed for the plane to develop the declared hypersonic speed. Finally, the vehicle should be equipped with a supersonic combustion ramjet to continue flying at this speed."

But that body is way too big compared to even heavy Fighter IMO. And requirements are also different. We are yet to hear, what is going to make Indian AVATAR fly & deter. Maybe eurekas in miniaturization will help last generation of AMCAs. haha

 

[plugwater]

Kaveri engine to power fifth generation fighter aircraft

Under development for over two decades, the indigenous fighter jet engine 'Kaveri' will be used for powering the home-grown fifth generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

Being developed by DRDO's Gas Turbine research Establishment (GTRE), the Kaveri was initially being developed for the LCA Tejas programme but now it will be used on the AMCA, which is expected to be ready by 2016-17, senior officials told PTI here.

The AMCA is a twin-engine indigenous fighter aircraft programme for which initial sanctions have already been accorded by the Defence Ministry, they added.

The indigenous fighter aircraft engine programme was first started in 1986 and has suffered delays and cost over-runs. It was also marred by the technology denial regimes in the 90s.

After not being able to get the desired thrust for powering fighter aircraft, the DRDO entered into a Joint Venture with the French engine manufacturers Snecma to further enhance its capabilities.

"In recent times, the engine has been able to produce thrust of 70-75 Kilo Newton but what the IAF and other stake-holders desire is power between 90—95 KN.

"I think with the JV with Snecma in place now, we would be able to achieve these parameters in near future," they said.

On using the Kaveri for the LCA, they said the engine would be fitted on the first 40 LCAs to be supplied to the IAF when they come for upgrades to the DRDO in the latter half of the decade.

Due to the absence of an indigenous engine, GE engines from the United States were procured to power the LCAs and recently, another tender was awarded to the American company for supplying 99 engines for the advanced version of the Tejas.

On the present status of the programme, officials said the maiden flight test of the Kaveri was completed successfully during the Flying Test Bed (FTB) trials at the Gromov Flight Research Institute in Moscow November last year.

During the coming months, 50-60 test flights will be carried out to mature the engine in terms of reliability, safety and airworthiness.

These trials would pave the way for further flight trials of Kaveri engine with a fighter aircraft, they added.

http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/technology/article1127075.ece

 

[plugwater]

Has the JV with Snecma been signed ?

 

[black eagle]

Kaveri engine to power fifth generation fighter aircraft

Under development for over two decades, the indigenous fighter jet engine 'Kaveri' will be used for powering the home-grown fifth generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

Being developed by DRDO's Gas Turbine research Establishment (GTRE), the Kaveri was initially being developed for the LCA Tejas programme but now it will be used on the AMCA, which is expected to be ready by 2016-17, senior officials told PTI here.

The AMCA is a twin-engine indigenous fighter aircraft programme for which initial sanctions have already been accorded by the Defence Ministry, they added.

The indigenous fighter aircraft engine programme was first started in 1986 and has suffered delays and cost over-runs. It was also marred by the technology denial regimes in the 90s.

After not being able to get the desired thrust for powering fighter aircraft, the DRDO entered into a Joint Venture with the French engine manufacturers Snecma to further enhance its capabilities.

"In recent times, the engine has been able to produce thrust of 70-75 Kilo Newton but what the IAF and other stake-holders desire is power between 90—95 KN.

"I think with the JV with Snecma in place now, we would be able to achieve these parameters in near future," they said.

On using the Kaveri for the LCA, they said the engine would be fitted on the first 40 LCAs to be supplied to the IAF when they come for upgrades to the DRDO in the latter half of the decade.

Due to the absence of an indigenous engine, GE engines from the United States were procured to power the LCAs and recently, another tender was awarded to the American company for supplying 99 engines for the advanced version of the Tejas.

On the present status of the programme, officials said the maiden flight test of the Kaveri was completed successfully during the Flying Test Bed (FTB) trials at the Gromov Flight Research Institute in Moscow November last year.

During the coming months, 50-60 test flights will be carried out to mature the engine in terms of reliability, safety and airworthiness.

These trials would pave the way for further flight trials of Kaveri engine with a fighter aircraft, they added.

http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/technology/article1127075.ece

Will it be able to have all the technologies incorporated into it that is required for a Gen 5 fighter engine?? Things like vectored thrust, super cruise, single crystal turbine etc... I have my doubts. I just hope it doesn't end up delaying the AMCA just like it did in the case of LCA...

 

[nrj]

Will it be able to have all the technologies incorporated into it that is required for a Gen 5 fighter engine?? Things like vectored thrust, super cruise, single crystal turbine etc... I have my doubts. I just hope it doesn't end up delaying the AMCA just like it did in the case of LCA...

Doubts will be there till AMCA takes first flight. But as far as thrusts requirements are to be considered, I think ~180KN thrust will be enough to power AMCA & kaveri will meet it. As far as its LO features to be considered, its going to take long time to develop, implement & adapt. So its too early to be skeptical of it.

LCA delay story is different. AMCA will be twin engine unlike LCA. Its even early to predict if there will be 2D or 3D TVC. Next 6-8 months will be crucial in design phase & more importantly for the JV GTRE going to commit.

 

[Parthy]

Kaveri engine to power fifth generation fighter aircraft

Under development for over two decades, the indigenous fighter jet engine 'Kaveri' will be used for powering the home-grown fifth generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

Being developed by DRDO's Gas Turbine research Establishment (GTRE), the Kaveri was initially being developed for the LCA Tejas programme but now it will be used on the AMCA, which is expected to be ready by 2016-17, senior officials told PTI here.

The AMCA is a twin-engine indigenous fighter aircraft programme for which initial sanctions have already been accorded by the Defence Ministry, they added.

The indigenous fighter aircraft engine programme was first started in 1986 and has suffered delays and cost over-runs. It was also marred by the technology denial regimes in the 90s.

After not being able to get the desired thrust for powering fighter aircraft, the DRDO entered into a Joint Venture with the French engine manufacturers Snecma to further enhance its capabilities.

"In recent times, the engine has been able to produce thrust of 70-75 Kilo Newton but what the IAF and other stake-holders desire is power between 90—95 KN.

"I think with the JV with Snecma in place now, we would be able to achieve these parameters in near future," they said.

On using the Kaveri for the LCA, they said the engine would be fitted on the first 40 LCAs to be supplied to the IAF when they come for upgrades to the DRDO in the latter half of the decade.

Due to the absence of an indigenous engine, GE engines from the United States were procured to power the LCAs and recently, another tender was awarded to the American company for supplying 99 engines for the advanced version of the Tejas.

On the present status of the programme, officials said the maiden flight test of the Kaveri was completed successfully during the Flying Test Bed (FTB) trials at the Gromov Flight Research Institute in Moscow November last year.

During the coming months, 50-60 test flights will be carried out to mature the engine in terms of reliability, safety and airworthiness.

These trials would pave the way for further flight trials of Kaveri engine with a fighter aircraft, they added.

http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/technology/article1127075.ece

Again DRDO is taking a big bite here.. will they be able to achieve the target with required parameters this time?? Fingers crossed!!

 

[p2prada]

The French are involved, so I don't see why Kaveri will have any major problems. It will be more M-88 than Kaveri. I guess the core being used is M-88-3, if not the M-88-2. This way they can finish their own engine development program for Rafale.

A Kaveri at 90-95KN thrust is enough for the AMCA program initially if they are building a 11 ton aircraft. Reports suggest they will be ready in 4 to 5 years. Perhaps an uprated engine with flat nozzles and other stealthy fittings will push the engine to 110KN+ by 2025. That would be a big deal for us.

I wonder if GTRE will develop a new core and push that for AMCA and leave Kaveri for LCA Mk2 for re-engine program later on.

 

[gogbot]

The French are involved, so I don't see why Kaveri will have any major problems. It will be more M-88 than Kaveri. I guess the core being used is M-88-3, if not the M-88-2. This way they can finish their own engine development program for Rafale.

A Kaveri at 90-95KN thrust is enough for the AMCA program initially if they are building a 11 ton aircraft. Reports suggest they will be ready in 4 to 5 years. Perhaps an uprated engine with flat nozzles and other stealthy fittings will push the engine to 110KN+ by 2025. That would be a big deal for us.

I wonder if GTRE will develop a new core and push that for AMCA and leave Kaveri for LCA Mk2 for re-engine program later on.

Did'nt they pass the Trials in Russia , Using the Latest version of the Kabini core.

the engine has been able to produce thrust of 70-75 Kilo Newton but what the IAF and other stake-holders desire is power between 90—95 KN

I think the 90-95 KN version will use the M-88 Core ,

While they continue to work on the Kabini core or a new core design , for future projects.
SCHEMA already assisted in Overcoming many of the Difficulties with the Kabini and get it to work .

 

[p2prada]

Did'nt they pass the Trials in Russia , Using the Latest version of the Kabini core.



I think the 90-95 KN version will use the M-88 Core ,

While they continue to work on the Kabini core or a new core design , for future projects.
SCHEMA already assisted in Overcoming many of the Difficulties with the Kabini and get it to work .

Ok. Thanks. So, right now there is no plan for a new indigenous core development. Looking forward to its first LCA test.

 

[Welcome]

all is well..............i hope this time they will not repeat same mistake in AMCA project. i know LCA is entirely new projects for drdo but ye bahana AMCA mein nanhi chalega.

 

[swag5]

DRDO-Snecma Kaveri Engine to Power Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA)

A DRDO project for over two decades, the fighter jet engine Kaveri will be used for powering the home-grown fifth generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA). Being developed by DRDO's Gas Turbine research Establishment (GTRE), the Kaveri was initially being developed for the LCA Tejas programme but now it will be used on the AMCA.

The AMCA is expected to be ready by 2016-17, senior officials told Press Trust if India. The AMCA is a twin-engine indigenous fighter aircraft programme for which initial sanctions have already been accorded by the Defence Ministry, they added.

The indigenous fighter aircraft engine programme was first started in 1986 and has suffered delays and cost over-runs. It was also marred by the technology denial regimes in the 90s. After not being able to get the desired thrust for powering fighter aircraft, the DRDO entered into a Joint Venture with the French engine manufacturers Snecma to further enhance its capabilities.

"In recent times, the engine has been able to produce thrust of 70-75 Kilo Newton but what the IAF and other stake-holders desire is power between 90—95 KN. I think with the JV with Snecma in place now, we would be able to achieve these parameters in near future," they said.

On using the Kaveri for the LCA, they said the engine would be fitted on the first 40 LCAs to be supplied to the IAF when they come for upgrades to the DRDO in the latter half of the decade. Due to the lack of readiness of the Kaveri engine, GE engines from the United States were procured to power the LCAs and recently, another tender was awarded to the American company for supplying 99 engines for the advanced version of the Tejas.

On the present status of the programme, officials said the maiden flight test of the Kaveri was completed successfully during the Flying Test Bed (FTB) trials at the Gromov Flight Research Institute in Moscow November last year. During the coming months, 50-60 test flights will be carried out to mature the engine in terms of reliability, safety and airworthiness.

These trials would pave the way for further flight trials of Kaveri engine with a fighter aircraft, they added.

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[shuvo@y2k10]

i can't understand how the engine will incorporate tvc,supercruise,flat nozzles etc in the existing kaveri engine.the existing m-88 core does not feature tvc or supercruise.i think the kaveri-smerca joint venture may be suffcient for lca mk2 or lca mk1 upgrade and will be ready in about 5 years but the amca needs a fifth gen engine to be a true fifth gen fighter.there were reports last year that the iaf has alredy rejected the joint venture.the gtre should initiate a separate fifth gen engine programme to be ready in 10-12 years completely separate from the kaveri-smeca engine.while drdo already has some idea regarding the tvc since the su-30mki engine is licence manufactured by hal,and it is going to learn about supercruise and flat nozzles from the pak-fa/fgfa programme,so it isn't going to be as tough as it may sound esp since gtre already gained has suffficent expertise in jet engine developement from the kaveri project and the amca protypes can be powered by kaveri-smeca engine until the fifth gen engine is fully developed.