AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[Rajaraja Chola]

And production in 2033 .

Testing is not an easy job. Sometimes you need time with testing. How the aircraft responds to hundreds of hours flown? And you have to validate each and every component inside the aircraft. Let's say some unimportant line of code is added, it has to be tested and some part of code is removed, has to be test flown. One test flight generates raw data. Now you have the data and compare that raw data with other prototype flying. Development and testing isn't easy. Infact I would be glad if Mk2 timeline is met by 2025 as it's practically new aircraft with new engine.

And atleast 5-6 prototypes will be made. This is to ensure and figure out the best practices to manufacture. There is a field behind it called DFM. We should be grateful if the rollout timeline of 2034 is met. Particularly when new tech are developed for the first time in India.

 

[Ghost hale]

As already planned?!.. What plan? What missiles?.... Carrying CCM in stealthy config don't require new missile! It needs special propout launching rails (usually side-bays) that can do it in high-G, like the wing pylons.

Rest is personal opinion (not completely correct either), that too on doctrine. I'm talking based on what info & plans are known in public.

Current AAM cant be carried inside IWB. It has to be modified and development plans were already there. If final design is changed which i don't think, then for IWB missile will be developed. The opinion i pointed out is based on all the doctrines used world wide. Can you name any place where Stealth aircrafts are used for anything else except air superiority.


Astra mk1 is for wing pylons as per ADA.

 

[Bleh]

Current AAM cant be carried inside IWB. It has to be modified and development plans were already there. If final design is changed which i don't think, then for IWB missile will be developed. The opinion i pointed out is based on all the doctrines used world wide. Can you name any place where Stealth aircrafts are used for anything else except air superiority.


Astra mk1 is for wing pylons as per ADA.

Don't take it the wrong way m8, but I'm starting to feel that you're throughly uninformed about AAMs... & most other things it seems.

Firstly, you are talking of WVR & BVRs as if they were the same thing. If missiles are being launched at long range, then they are being done at level flight. In which case an ejector rack simply drops it & its propellant ignites after a delay. Exact same missiles can be used from direct launch racks. It is done for every missile from AIM-120 to SD-10.

And during dogfights CCM are launched from specially made side-bays that resemble movable rails, because they can't be ejector launched. AMCA don't have that shit yet, Chinks took 6 years to get these certified on J-20. But no seperate missile is needed.

Air-superiority is the least common use of stealth fighters. Only F-22... The biggest stealth fighter program of F-35 called is "Joint strike fighter" & its basically a stealthy strike aircraft with widely ridiculed A2A capabilities! Dafuq are you talking about?

 

[Ghost hale]

Don't take it the wrong way m8, but I'm starting to feel that you're throughly uninformed about AAMs... & most other things it seems.

Firstly, you are talking of WVR & BVRs as if they were the same thing. If missiles are being launched at long range, then they are being done at level flight. In which case an ejector rack simply drops it & its propellant ignites after a delay. Exact same missiles can be used from direct launch racks. It is done for every missile from AIM-120 to SD-10.

And during dogfights CCM are launched from specially made side-bays that resemble movable rails, because they can't be ejector launched. AMCA don't have that shit yet, Chinks took 6 years to get these certified on J-20. But no seperate missile is needed.
View attachment 79101

Air-superiority is the least common use of stealth fighters. Only F-22... The biggest stealth fighter program of F-35 called "Joint strike fighter"! Dafuq are you talking about?

Not sure if u are not getting it or can't own that you might be wrong. No issues. Fine with me. Can't explain more.

 

[Bleh]

Not sure if u are not getting it or can't own that you might be wrong. No issues. Fine with me. Can't explain more.

Yes, what you've said makes no sense to me. Anyone else have any clue?

 

[Ghost hale]

Yes, what you've said makes no sense to me. Anyone else have any clue?

No issues.

 

[Bleh]

No issues.

But from comments like this I suspect its the former case "Current AAM cant be carried inside IWB"......"Can you name any place where Stealth aircrafts are used for anything else except air superiority."

 

[Ghost hale]

But from comments like this I suspect its the former case "Current AAM cant be carried inside IWB"......"Can you name any place where Stealth aircrafts are used for anything else except air superiority."

former case?

 

[Bleh]

former case?

That you don't know what you're talking about.

Anyways whether you understand or not, it's evident that AMCA cannot spearhead air-superiority in stealthy config... not without any CCMs.
Stealth allows it to safely snipe with BVRs & go deep to strike with PGMs (listen to AI21interview), while the 4.5th gen will depend more on stand-off weapons & see to interception or dogfighting.

 

[Ghost hale]

That you don't know what you're taking about.

Sure man...

 

[Killbot]

Don't take it the wrong way m8, but I'm starting to feel that you're throughly uninformed about AAMs... & most other things it seems.

Firstly, you are talking of WVR & BVRs as if they were the same thing. If missiles are being launched at long range, then they are being done at level flight. In which case an ejector rack simply drops it & its propellant ignites after a delay. Exact same missiles can be used from direct launch racks. It is done for every missile from AIM-120 to SD-10.

And during dogfights CCM are launched from specially made side-bays that resemble movable rails, because they can't be ejector launched. AMCA don't have that shit yet, Chinks took 6 years to get these certified on J-20. But no seperate missile is needed.
View attachment 79101

Air-superiority is the least common use of stealth fighters. Only F-22... The biggest stealth fighter program of F-35 called is "Joint strike fighter" & its basically a stealthy strike aircraft with widely ridiculed A2A capabilities! Dafuq are you talking about?

So what will replace our Su-30s in 2040? AMCA Mk.2? Or will it be a completely new heavy fighter? 6th gen?

 

[Bleh]

So what will replace our Su-30s in 2040? AMCA Mk.2? Or will it be a completely new heavy fighter? 6th gen?

Mark2... ORCA... Depends on that perception. I can't possibly tell. 2040 is far away.

 

[Ghost hale]

That you don't know what you're talking about.

Anyways whether you understand or not, it's evident that AMCA cannot spearhead air-superiority in stealthy config... not without any CCMs.
Stealth allows it to safely snipe with BVRs & go deep to strike with PGMs (listen to AI21interview), while the 4.5th gen will depend more on stand-off weapons & see to interception or dogfighting.

Just for your deep strike capability ...

Defense World

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[Bleh]

@Killbot BTW, do understand that jets we classify as 4.5th gen jets could very likely have 6th gen features like optionally manned & unmanned wingman post 2040... So watch your terminology.

Generation difference isn't the defined the same anymore. 4th gen of 2040, would match 5th gen except for stealth & supercruise. Having RCS is actually desired... That way you're can create fake signature by decoy-drones or EW systems to increase your tactical options.

Just for your deep strike capability ...

Defense World

View News at Defense World

www.defenseworld.net

Yeah. You aren't showing something unknown to any of us here. Could be propaganda, could be true... This is a longstanding issue. No point digging up that dead horse to beat again.

It'll need jammers. Nobody expects otherwise.

 

[Ghost hale]

Yeah. You aren't showing something unknown to any of its here. Could be propaganda, could be true... This is a longstanding issue. No point digging up that dead horse to beat again.

Why is it difficult to accept u were wrong instead of this propaganda excuse.

 

[Bleh]

Why is it difficult to accept u were wrong instead of this propaganda excuse.

Because I haven't been provided logic, information or evidence to the contrary. Accepting beyond wrong isn't my kink, that I'll do it just for the kick.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

So what will replace our Su-30s in 2040? AMCA Mk.2? Or will it be a completely new heavy fighter? 6th gen?

Depends on the requirement of air-force when searching for Su-30 mki alternative. If they want to full-fill the heavy lifting role of Su-30 mki, with large number of air-to air missiles and other payload, then ORCA is best fit. However, if they want something on the lines of F-22 or PAK-FA, then a AMCA dereived heavy fighter can be developed. AMCA platform will also lead to many offsprings like Tejas platform. But this option will be for limited number only, not as a 1:1 replacement for 272 Su-30 mki.

My guess it will be a combination of ORCA and heavy fighter based on AMCA.

 

[Ghost hale]

Because I haven't been provided logic, information or evidence to the contrary. Accepting I'm wrong isn't my kink, that I'll do it just for the kick.

U are wrong at so many levels i didn't wanted to indulge with u. From the very first statement i said whatever u said can be the case but is not likely. Only thing i corrected was that Astra MK1 dimensions are not for IWB so different AAMs will be developed which was already informed at various times. Even ADA brochure shared in Aero India 2021 showed Astra MK1 on pilons and IWB carried unnamed AAM or glide bombs (that not confirmed). Rest doctrine which u specified is not known anywhere. Just going by what all options are there and are used till now all over the world what u said doesn't make sense but is possible. So if u can understand it good or keep being in complex. I already spent too much time.

 

[Ghost hale]

So what will replace our Su-30s in 2040? AMCA Mk.2? Or will it be a completely new heavy fighter? 6th gen?

Tejas MK1,MK1a,MK2,AMCA MK1 and 2, SU30MKI (planned till 2060 possibly with upgrade to super sukhoi). 50% stealth and 50% 4.5 and below to maintain availability.

 

[Killbot]

@Killbot BTW, do understand that jets we classify as 4.5th gen jets could very likely have 6th gen features like optionally manned & unmanned wingman post 2040... So watch your terminology.

Generation difference isn't the defined the same anymore. 4th gen of 2040, would match 5th gen except for stealth & supercruise. Having RCS is actually desired... That way you're can create fake signature by decoy-drones or EW systems to increase your tactical options

Yes. As I understand it, 6th gen is not yet defined (I.e. not by the US), but some of the key technologies will be superior EW systems to current ones, high power output for engines (VCE?), superior avionics, DEWs, DEW based self protection system, AI based mission computer, optionally manned cockpit, etc. Airframe is not a criterion for 6th gen.

My question was, will we have the listed capabilities when the Su-30s need replacement? Can we make a (for lack of a better term) 6th gen fighter?

AMCA Mk.2 would have most of the above capabilities, except the engine.