AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[Indx TechStyle]

AFAIK only 5 th gen aircraft in medium weight category.

J-31, TF-X and KF-X?

 

[Bleh]

@porky_kicker adding to that. AMCA Mark2 with 110kN+ & 30t+ MTOW is really pushing the medium class.

how would we incorporate large number of sensor , mission computer , also airframe also have to be strong enough for its pylon to have that beast capability envisioned

Whatever info I've managed to gather on AMCA during AI21, it's expected internal fuel is 5t & stealthy range 1000km (clean config outside).
Is flatter & sleeker than F-35.

But other than that, sorry. You have asked "how?" in a manner as if we're privy to secret structural design infos of AMCA
Anyways it's not gonna be a payload hauling beast like MWF. External loadout on 6 pylons is 6.5t only, with max 450kg bombs on each 4 internal pylon & 8 SAAW of 250kg each ... Thus 2t internal capacity.

 

[porky_kicker]

J-31, TF-X and KF-X?

In my defence I did say afaik

KFX is full stealth is it ?
J31 data is inadequate
TFX don't know about it

 

[SavageKing456]

KF-X has much better design
View attachment 78357

Then AMCA
View attachment 78358

Not really,KFX's design is very basic

 

[gutenmorgen]

Does anybody know if AMCA has provision/enough space for a 150KN+ class of engine, like F119 or XF9(which could be possibly close to 200KN)?? I have heard 110KN in so many interviews, so many times that I am starting to think that 110KN is the final objective of sorts. Somewhere an ex ADA chief said that once we "finally" get a 110KN class engine, we will move onto making bigger engines for transport aircrafts, etc. So not exactly a bigger fighter jet engine. Also there doesn't seem to be any focus on adaptive cycle engines (unless there is something going on between RR and DRDO).

 

[Chinmoy]

Does anybody know if AMCA has provision/enough space for a 150KN+ class of engine, like F119 or XF9(which could be possibly close to 200KN)?? I have heard 110KN in so many interviews, so many times that I am starting to think that 110KN is the final objective of sorts. Somewhere an ex ADA chief said that once we "finally" get a 110KN class engine, we will move onto making bigger engines for transport aircrafts, etc. So not exactly a bigger fighter jet engine. Also there doesn't seem to be any focus on adaptive cycle engines (unless there is something going on between RR and DRDO).

110 kN is not the final, but initial objective. We wanted it for Tejas itself.

Now integrating a 150kN engine would make AMCA a heavy category fighter instead of medium. So as per design concept, it would not have any provision of any such engine. On other hand, Kaveri itself was a adaptive cycle engine, so any new derivative or engine coming out of DRDO would have it in them.

 

[fire starter]

110 kN is not the final, but initial objective. We wanted it for Tejas itself.

Now integrating a 150kN engine would make AMCA a heavy category fighter instead of medium. So as per design concept, it would not have any provision of any such engine. On other hand, Kaveri itself was a adaptive cycle engine, so any new derivative or engine coming out of DRDO would have it in them.

Wow so drdo directly tried to develop adaptive cycle and also succeeded upto some extent. If I am not wrong they also used CMC on nozzle section.

 

[gutenmorgen]

110 kN is not the final, but initial objective. We wanted it for Tejas itself.

Now integrating a 150kN engine would make AMCA a heavy category fighter instead of medium. So as per design concept, it would not have any provision of any such engine. On other hand, Kaveri itself was a adaptive cycle engine, so any new derivative or engine coming out of DRDO would have it in them.

Wow, I dint know that at all. Thanks for the info.
Regarding the 150KN+ engines, I think its wrong not to focus on that. With more focus on EW and DEWs in the coming generation, more power would be required, not necessarily for greater speeds or anything but for better avionics, better EW equipment and of course for DEWs, which are going to be enormously power hungry. We will again spend decades playing catch up if we don't focus on them now. RR should be developing something similar to Tempest. I think we should be a part of R&D of that project.

 

[Chinmoy]

Wow, I dint know that at all. Thanks for the info.
Regarding the 150KN+ engines, I think its wrong not to focus on that. With more focus on EW and DEWs in the coming generation, more power would be required, not necessarily for greater speeds or anything but for better avionics, better EW equipment and of course for DEWs, which are going to be enormously power hungry. We will again spend decades playing catch up if we don't focus on them now. RR should be developing something similar to Tempest. I think we should be a part of R&D of that project.

Power generation in terms of Watt has nothing to do with Newton it produces. A higher thrust engine doesn't mean that it would produce more Wattage then a lower thrust engine. For example take the case of M88 and Al-31. Although Al-31 produces a higher wet thrust of 120kN in comparison to 70kN of M-88, the power produce by it is powering up the top most avionics of Rafale. Same could be said for F-135. A single engine producing 195kN is powering more potent avionics then 240kN two Al-31 added up.

 

[gutenmorgen]

Power generation in terms of Watt has nothing to do with Newton it produces. A higher thrust engine doesn't mean that it would produce more Wattage then a lower thrust engine. For example take the case of M88 and Al-31. Although Al-31 produces a higher wet thrust of 120kN in comparison to 70kN of M-88, the power produce by it is powering up the top most avionics of Rafale. Same could be said for F-135. A single engine producing 195kN is powering more potent avionics then 240kN two Al-31 added up.

I was just generalising. Its more commonly the engine with higher thrust(not combined thrust) that produces more power. Its same even in some of the example that you gave (F135 vs Al31). I am not so sure about Al31 vs M88.
Anyhow, higher thrust is required not just for more wattage. It is required for carrying heavier avionics/loadout. I am sorry that I failed to get across this point. And for us (with the world's highest battleground), it would make a difference between our fighters taking to sky with a full loadout or being half crippled.

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

I was just generalising. Its more commonly the engine with higher thrust(not combined thrust) that produces more power. Its same even in some of the example that you gave (F135 vs Al31). I am not so sure about Al31 vs M88.
Anyhow, higher thrust is required not just for more wattage. It is required for carrying heavier avionics/loadout. I am sorry that I failed to get across this point. And for us (with the world's highest battleground), it would make a difference between our fighters taking to sky with a full loadout or being half crippled.

Guten abent, kamreden.

 

[gutenmorgen]

Guten abent, kamreden.

Guten Abend. I am from India only btw. I chose the username on a whim.

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

Guten Abend. I am from India only btw. I chose the username on a whim.

From where ,you are in india sir .

 

[gutenmorgen]

From where ,you are in india sir .

Lucknow.. And please don't use sir. Although I have been visiting this forum for years (so I am a just a tad better than a noob), I created my account only now. So I am a newcomer.

 

[Spitfire9]

I was just generalising. Its more commonly the engine with higher thrust(not combined thrust) that produces more power. Its same even in some of the example that you gave (F135 vs Al31). I am not so sure about Al31 vs M88.
Anyhow, higher thrust is required not just for more wattage. It is required for carrying heavier avionics/loadout. I am sorry that I failed to get across this point. And for us (with the world's highest battleground), it would make a difference between our fighters taking to sky with a full loadout or being half crippled.

You may find what RR are doing of interest. Press release from last year:

Rolls-Royce develops world-first electrical technology for next-generation Tempest programme

Rolls-Royce develops world-first electrical technology for next-generation Tempest programme

www.rolls-royce.com

 

[gutenmorgen]

You may find what RR are doing of interest. Press release from last year:

Rolls-Royce develops world-first electrical technology for next-generation Tempest programme

Rolls-Royce develops world-first electrical technology for next-generation Tempest programme

www.rolls-royce.com

Yeah, I have been following the programme with what little I can gather from the internet. Their engine is basically going to be a huge dynamo. And the more extra power the engine can generate, the more electricity can be produced (Law of conservation of energy?). They haven't really announce the thrust that they are targeting but by this design, it looks to be quite a high thrust one. Actually this is what propelled me to ask the question in the first place. Even if DRDO collaborates on that project, AMCA needs to have the space for the engines because I don't think their dimensions will be any lesser than F119s and possibly F135.

 

[Karthi]

@porky_kicker @Karthi @Bleh
Sir i have a doubt about amca , ut has similar lenght as of f 35 , but is less chonky and smaller fuselage , also it houses two engine for similar thrust , if we make it with similar fuel carrying capacity so how would we incorporate large number of sensor , mission computer , also airframe also have to be strong enough for its pylon to have that beast capability envisioned .
How will all be managed

Don't know how much / many sensors will enter into AMCA. From the current renderings no DAS like system , No IRST . There may be Antennas all-around the airframe for 360 degree coverage . How they manage space ?? They can miniature the electronics and can pack in an efficient way to make Max space. And by sacrificing payloads. Two engines will provide enough power for onboard Sensors. What I believe is IAFs top priority is Stealth .

 

[FalconSlayers]

Don't know how much / many sensors will enter into AMCA. From the current renderings no DAS like system , No IRST . There may be Antennas all-around the airframe for 360 degree coverage . How they manage space ?? They can miniature the electronics and can pack in an efficient way to make Max space. And by sacrificing payloads. Two engines will provide enough power for onboard Sensors. What I believe is IAFs top priority is Stealth .

Don’t go by the name Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft, the size of the aircraft will be almost similar to F-22 Raptor, its weight will be far less due to excessive use of Carbon-Fibre Composites (CF-Cs).

 

[Harry101]

Sensor housing prototypes are being 3D printed using AlSi10Mg alloy. It is a critical component of a fighter, housing highly sensitive intertwined fiber optic cables that are connected to radar & sensors. It will be used on an upcoming Indian fighter with a fly by optics system.

Nice to see the kind of attention to detail being given to tech development. Japan is the only country to have successfully demonstrated fly by optics on their 5th gen prototype.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Nice to see the kind of attention to detail being given to tech development. Japan is the only country to have successfully demonstrated fly by optics on their 5th gen prototype.

Japanese 5th gen has fly-by-optics?