AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[A chauhan]

Yes, L&T is one of the most trustworthy private companies because they’ve proven their worth in India’s SSBN project (ATV programme).

IAF chief says AMCA will have 6 generation tech ! DRDO chief calls it a 5.5 generation jet !! This is a big statement ! It made my day !

I am feeling like this :-

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

With the design work of AMCA nearing completion, ADA/NAL has gained sufficient expertise in designing stealth aircraft as well as its wind tunnel testing. I wonder how will AMCA and its future versions compare with BAE tempest and Franco-German FCAS, considering both will see service in the 2030s.

 

[AZTEC]

With the design work of AMCA nearing completion, ADA/NAL has gained sufficient expertise in designing stealth aircraft as well as its wind tunnel testing. I wonder how will AMCA and its future versions compare with BAE tempest and Franco-German FCAS, considering both will see service in the 2030s.

The Tempest and the FCAS are both said to be 6 generation.

Due to the recent statement of IAF chief, we can expect AMCA Mark-2 to almost be a true 6 generation fighter. The AMCA Mark-2 can eventually evolve and become quite different from the 5 generation AMCA Mark-1, just like Tejas Mark-2 (now called MWF) evolved and became quite different from Tejas Mark-1/1A.

 

[Dessert Storm]

The Tempest and the FCAS are both said to be 6 generation.

Due to the recent statement of IAF chief, we can expect AMCA Mark-2 to almost be a true 6 generation fighter. The AMCA Mark-2 can eventually evolve and become quite different from the 5 generation AMCA Mark-1, just like Tejas Mark-2 (now called MWF) evolved and became quite different from Tejas Mark-1/1A.

The AMCA is designed to be a 5th gen fighter. With improvements it can become 5++, 5.5. AMCA Mk2 cannot become a 6th Gen fighter. If that was the case, US won't be developing a 6th gen platform.
I would suggest a collaboration for a 6th Gen fighter, with either of the two platforms you are comparing AMCA to.

 

[HawkisRight]

 

[AZTEC]

The AMCA is designed to be a 5th gen fighter. With improvements it can become 5++, 5.5. AMCA Mk2 cannot become a 6th Gen fighter. If that was the case, US won't be developing a 6th gen platform.
I would suggest a collaboration for a 6th Gen fighter, with either of the two platforms you are comparing AMCA to.

Yes, that’s why I used the word ‘almost’.

By 2030, India is expected to be the 3rd largest economy. Our GDP will surpass the combined GDP of France and Germany, and we will, quite literally, be the third most economically powerful country on earth. Rise in economic power has traditionally been assisted and accompanied by a proportionate rise in technological and industrial capacity.

Therefore, at that stage, I don’t think we would need to join hands with any external power for developing a fighter jet. We can do it ourselves.

 

[Dessert Storm]

Yes, that’s why I used the word ‘almost’.

By 2030, India is expected to be the 3rd largest economy. Our GDP will surpass the combined GDP of France and Germany, and we will, quite literally, be the third most economically powerful country on earth. Rise in economic power has traditionally been assisted and accompanied by a proportionate rise in technological and industrial capacity.

Therefore, at that stage, I don’t think we would need to join hands with any external power for developing a fighter jet. We can do it ourselves.

GDP is great, so is rise in technological and industrial capacity. However, technology has a learning curve, which can be smoothened out only by collaborations.
6th Generation tech ain't just the platform itself. It's the development of the whole system of platforms simultaneously.
I sincerely hope that your wish of successful development of 6th Gen systems without collaboration comes true.

 

[Trololo]

Yes, that’s why I used the word ‘almost’.

By 2030, India is expected to be the 3rd largest economy. Our GDP will surpass the combined GDP of France and Germany, and we will, quite literally, be the third most economically powerful country on earth. Rise in economic power has traditionally been assisted and accompanied by a proportionate rise in technological and industrial capacity.

Therefore, at that stage, I don’t think we would need to join hands with any external power for developing a fighter jet. We can do it ourselves.

Except Engines. Cheen with $10 trillion economy is struggling with air breathing aero engines. I advocate spending top dollar on engines now so that by 2030 a great engine is in our hands. We have pretty much mastered the airframe and aerodynamics part. Radars and electronic capabilities are also up there as far as design and algorithm development is concerned. A fab is critically lacking. In my view 2 things:

1> Aero engines with focus on materials science.
2> Get a fab NOW. Trickle down tech from the fab can later help Indian entrepreneurs in creating a more made-in-India fab.

 

[Bleh]

IAF chief says AMCA will have 6 generation tech ! DRDO chief calls it a 5.5 generation jet !! This is a big statement ! It made my day !

I am feeling like this :-

View attachment 61513

This info is not new, nor news... I've been telling everyone that since more than 6 months ago!

That's how development had been moving towards... AMCA Mark1 will be basically a stealthy 4.5 gen without TVC, the Mark2 will be with me engine & have a lot of 6th gen characteristics we're presently working on.

Actually now with ORCA in the picture to plug the gap, they have been pretty clear about AMCA Mark2 being 5.5th gen... In that case, planned groundbreaking new techs like unmanned wingman, optionally manned cockpit, swarm drones, Direct-energy countermeasures etc. will demand considerable time.

And situation has changed in last 2 years... Our 5th gen plan is now effectively split between ±5th gen ORCA, 5th gen AMCA Mark1 & 5th+ gen AMCA Mark2!

 

[Trololo]

This info is not new, nor news... I've been telling everyone that since more than 6 months ago!

That's how development had been moving towards... AMCA Mark1 will be basically a stealthy 4.5 gen without TVC, the Mark2 will be with me engine & have a lot of 6th gen characteristics we're presently working on.

Some clarifications:

1> Can AMCA Mk1 super cruise?
2> How much of AMCA subsystems can be tested on LCA PV aircraft? That will save a lot of testing time.

 

[Bleh]

Some clarifications:

1> Can AMCA Mk1 super cruise?
2> How much of AMCA subsystems can be tested on LCA PV aircraft? That will save a lot of testing time.

1. No. Not with F414.

2. There's no AMCA anymore, AMCA is now Mark1 & Mark2... And tech isn't independent. Tech from Mark1 will be common in MWF or TEDBF. Mark2 is still away. ORCA (if it happens later) will probably draw some from there.

So, may or may not be LCA PVs but, MWF PV.

 

[The Maverick]

Yes, that’s why I used the word ‘almost’.

By 2030, India is expected to be the 3rd largest economy. Our GDP will surpass the combined GDP of France and Germany, and we will, quite literally, be the third most economically powerful country on earth. Rise in economic power has traditionally been assisted and accompanied by a proportionate rise in technological and industrial capacity.

Therefore, at that stage, I don’t think we would need to join hands with any external power for developing a fighter jet. We can do it ourselves.

Except Engines. Cheen with $10 trillion economy is struggling with air breathing aero engines. I advocate spending top dollar on engines now so that by 2030 a great engine is in our hands. We have pretty much mastered the airframe and aerodynamics part. Radars and electronic capabilities are also up there as far as design and algorithm development is concerned. A fab is critically lacking. In my view

not that simple
today we are the fifth or sixth largest GDP yet our Air Force flys 50 year old migs.and our development of lca and subsequent manufacturing set up is a joke .

compare Sweden or Israel one fifth our GDP or even one sixth they shame us in comparison .

until we build a proper infrastructure in manufacturing and delivery and supply chain and continuous improvement in development and delivery we will forever retain the dreaded tag largest weapons importer on the planet

 

[AZTEC]

not that simple
today we are the fifth or sixth largest GDP yet our Air Force flys 50 year old migs.and our development of lca and subsequent manufacturing set up is a joke .

compare Sweden or Israel one fifth our GDP or even one sixth they shame us in comparison .

until we build a proper infrastructure in manufacturing and delivery and supply chain and continuous improvement in development and delivery we will forever retain the dreaded tag largest weapons importer on the planet

Sweden and Israel invest far more than India on R&D as a percentage of GDP. India has other developmental priorities. However, once India achieves middle-income status, it will be able to focus resources on R&D as well.

India has already lost the largest-importer tag; it’s now the second-largest importer.

India was world’s second-largest arms importer in 2015-19: Report

The report by SIPRI, a think tank, says India’s arms imports from both Russia and the US fell during the five-year period, though the decline was more pronounced in the case of Russian arms deals

www.livemint.com

In fact, roughly 88-89% of our naval ships are made-in-India as of 2020 notwithstanding foreign components (if I remember correctly). By 2030, I can confidently say that the India will be able to source almost all of its Navy indigenously.

Let’s consider an example.

Just about 30 years ago, Sweden and Israel would’ve also shamed China. But what’s the situation now?! China has advanced so far that its on the verge of rivalling the US! The Pentagon has admitted in its 2020 annual report that China is already ahead of the US in some areas and will seek to surpass the US by 2050. James E. Fanell, a former top US military intelligence officer, estimates that China may “achieve sea control in the global maritime commons as early as 2030, and potentially even sea superiority by 2049”.

So my question to you is: how did China go from having a primitive military in 1990 to a modern military which challenges the US in 2020? The answer may sound simplistic but that’s the crux if it: a blitzkrieg of economic growth.

India has a population similar to China’s, and both of them are not very different in terms of national resources (I won’t elaborate this in this thread, we’ll save this for another day). Therefore, India has the potential to rival China in terms of Gross National Power. In fact, India is the only country which has the potential to surpass China in the long term. And if you’re wondering, the US is likely to loose its number-1 status just like Britain, if history is a guide. The US appears likely to slide to number-3.

Let’s continue this discussion on another thread because it’s deviating from AMCA.

 

[fire starter]

hmm.

 

[Bleh]

Source?

@Kuntal

 

[Bleh]

@Kuntal linking here.

Edit: Hmm, still not working.

 

[Illusive]

hmm.
View attachment 61632
View attachment 61633

All depends on funding, well this is the future of IAF at stake here and Naval aviation if they don't choose a fighter soon.

 

[AZTEC]

This is the future of IAF, according to IAF chief.
83 LCA + 114 MRFA + MWF + AMCA
All made in India.

 

[Dessert Storm]

This is the future of IAF, according to IAF chief.
83 LCA + 114 MRFA + MWF + AMCA
All made in India.

Apparently that's what he means. Who are the likely contenders then.
GOI definitely has been looking to go away from Russian platforms, so Migs n Sukohis are out. GOI has been previously avoiding Gripen and EFs due to involvement of multiple nations in the project. MWF/Tejas Variants have been mentioned by ACM, so IAF may not go in for F 21 because it's a single engine fighter. Given that the competition now is MRCA, it may be Rafale or F 15 EX.

 

[Adrian Corvus]

Apparently that's what he means. Who are the likely contenders then.
GOI definitely has been looking to go away from Russian platforms, so Migs n Sukohis are out. GOI has been previously avoiding Gripen and EFs due to involvement of multiple nations in the project. MWF/Tejas Variants have been mentioned by ACM, so IAF may not go in for F 21 because it's a single engine fighter. Given that the competition now is MRCA, it may be Rafale or F 15 EX.

I think we all know that it's just going to be the rafale...
F-15 would only make a zoo outta our AF fleets,also would be a logistic nightmare with too many different types of birds in the sky