AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

Flying Dagger

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Messages
1,482
Likes
3,184
Country flag
To realise AMCA you need to generate an industrial base and that will be possible only through MWF.

Many subsystems avionics etc which will make their way on Tejas will help to mature AMCA.

If we are going to skip Tejas and for 2035+ for AMCA then by that time our Sqd strength will shrink further.

Many of us know mk1a have several limitations and deficiency which will be sorted out in mk2. Mk1a are bought to keep production line running and use the industry already created for the project.
 

porky_kicker

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2016
Messages
4,536
Likes
28,438
Country flag
Bro, if China doesn't retire J10s it will surely induct 100s of J20s and J31s, which will pose a serious threat for IAF or any airforce in the world.

You will see 100s of J20s within next 5 years.
So ?

First decide whether J20 / J30 is really a full blown 5th gen aircraft . Are both the aircrafts threats which cannot be handled by current aircrafts or aircraft's to be inducted in the immediate future .

No military decides on procurement of its assets based on propaganda of adversaries . If anything that flies or is said to be a 5 th gen is taken seriously without actually finding out its real worth , one would be falling into a trap laid out by the enemy. Previous such incidents have happened during cold war . Super weapons were deliberately advertised albeit falsely in order to push the other side into developing counter or similar weapons thereby wasting valuable time and money for nought .

Personally I support the development of MWF which will act as a bridge to AMCA . MWF will be close to 5 th gen in terms of technology except for the stealth shaping . Same technology will be used in AMCA MK1 which will be a full fledged 5 th gen . AMCA MK2 will be a 5.5 or near 6 th gen aircraft.

Technology can never be jumped , it has to be realised progressively.

So called experts do not realise designing and flying an aircraft is not the end of the story . Harder still is developing the mass production related technologies , developing and implementing the QC methodologies , this requires extensive experience spanning the entire MIC .

As for spectra type EW suite , drdo has begun study on the same . Possibly french will initially provide some hand holding .
 
Last edited:

fire starter

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2020
Messages
4,248
Likes
26,754
Country flag
So ?

First decide whether J20 / J30 is really a full blown 5th gen aircraft . Are both the aircrafts threats which cannot be handled by current aircrafts or aircraft's to be inducted in the immediate future .

No military decides on procurement of its assets based on propaganda of adversaries . If anything that flies or is said to be a 5 th gen is taken seriously without actually finding out its real worth , one would be falling into a trap laid out by the enemy. Previous such incidents have happened during cold war . Super weapons were deliberately advertised albeit falsely in order to push the other side into developing counter or similar weapons thereby wasting valuable time and money for nought .

Personally I support the development of MWF which will act as a bridge to AMCA . MWF will be close to 5 th gen in terms of technology except for the stealth shaping . Same technology will be used in AMCA MK1 which will be a full fledged 5 th gen . AMCA MK2 will be a 5.5 or near 6 th gen aircraft.

Technology can never be jumped , it has to be realised progressively.

So called experts do not realise designing and flying an aircraft is not the end of the story . Harder still is developing the mass production related technologies , developing and implementing the QC methodologies , this requires extensive experience spanning the entire MIC .

As for spectra type EW suite , drdo has begun study on the same . Possibly french will initially provide some hand holding .
Yeah developing a airborne TWT jammer is in drdo road map till 2030.
 

scatterStorm

Senior Member
Joined
May 28, 2016
Messages
1,844
Likes
3,858
Country flag
Indian Air Force should drop its plan to make more Tejas Mark-2s & focus on AMCA fighter jets

The fourth generation MWF will probably be ready by end of next decade. China already has two fifth-generation fighter jets, and it can sell to Pakistan.
Yusuf T. Unjhawala 19 September, 2019 1:25 pm IST

To maintain a qualitative edge over its adversaries, put scarce resources to better use and look at over 50 years at the horizon, the Indian Air Force should drop its plan to make 200 fourth generation LCA Tejas Mark-2 fighter jets and focus on the fifth generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft – AMCA – stealth fighter jets...


_______________________________________
And this :-

________________________________________


Our @Yusuf saying that MWF or Mk2 should be dropped in favor of AMCA and its relevance after its induction and for coming years.

Interesting thought, what say guys ?
IMHO the original vision for IAF was to use Tejas MK1 in only limited amount to realize a capable fighter which can surpass M2000 we currently have in our inventory. Tejas MK1 should be fast-tracked to move to MK2 variant, AMCA should be done in parallel, at least the prototype stage.
 

Flying Dagger

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Messages
1,482
Likes
3,184
Country flag
Bro, if China doesn't retire J10s it will surely induct 100s of J20s and J31s, which will pose a serious threat for IAF or any airforce in the world.

You will see 100s of J20s within next 5 years.
True we will. And to take those J 20s out we will have 3-4 Sqd of Rafales.

Furthermore with mk2 and Orca ( possibly) J-20/31 combined threat will be matched with a superior or atleast equivalent jet.

Tejas will be superior in avionics dept in comparison with J-20 , what it lacks in stealth will be partly managed by it's small size and better radar.

What it really lacks is power and range to strike inside China which a twin engine ORCA will be able to take care of.
 

WolfPack86

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
8,065
Likes
11,022
Country flag
India might be looking beyond F-414 and EJ-200 derivatives for AMCA Mark-2 says a source to idrw.org

IAF and ADA have confirmed that India’s first 5th generation AMCA fighter jet will come in Mark-1 and Mark-2 configuration with 40 jets to come in Mark-1 to be configured with F414-INS6 engines which generate 98kN Class of Wet Thrust which will also power Tejas Mk2 jet and also Carrier based TEDBF jet but GE’s plans to offer its F414 Enhanced Engine with uprated Class of Wet Thrust to India for AMCA Mark-2 could be turned down even if GE agrees for full Transfer of Technology (ToT) as demanded by India for local manufacturing of India in a Joint venture setup, as planners are now considering much more advance engines options for the AMCA Mark-2 fighter jet. Reliable sources close to idrw.org for the first time has confirmed that any variants of F414 or EJ-200 engines will simply not be acceptable for the IAF since these engines were never developed keeping in mind the reduced thermal signature technology required for Stealth fighter jets in the rear end and nor can be classified as to be used for 5.5 Generation AMCA which India plans for its Mark-2 version. 5.5 Generation AMCA will require an engine that is not only equipped with next-generation but also radical state-of-the-art jet engine technology that has future growth potential for usage on 6th generation Manned and Unammned programs. Thermal Management System and Increased electrical power generation capability coupled with an intelligent power management system with usage of advanced composite materials are some of the technologies which IAF/ADA are considering and this simply can’t come from existing engines which were conceived nearly 20-25 years back even if upgraded with newer technologies since many of new features require many deep core modifications which are simply not possible. AMCA Mark-1 will be 5th generation aircraft that will carry many new technologies that are usually classified for a 5th Generation fighter jet aircraft like frontal stealth characters, DSI intakes, 360° multi-spectrum sensors, and next-generation AESA Fire control Radar and EW technology. Since India is little late to join the 5th Generation fighter jet bandwagon, when other countries are already planning for 6th generation fighter jets post-2030, IAF and ADA have decided to incorporate many new features of the 6th generation fighter jets in AMCA Mark-2 when it enters production in 2035. AMCA Mark-2 will be classified as a 5.5th Generation aircraft not only because of new engines nor because it will have Basic 5th Generation technology but it has been planned to feature some of the 6th generation technology which most countries are currently planning which includes directed-energy weapons and Distributed Aperture Sensor (DAS) and host of new features which are under development like Automatic Ground Collision Avoidance System will help regain control of the aircraft in case the pilot loses consciousness or is incapacitated. A helmet-mounted sensor will alert ground control, which will be able to take over the aircraft’s controls to safely land the aircraft which ADA called “Artificial intelligence-based application”. India is also in talks with Rolls-Royce which previously worked with GE for the development of the F136 engine for F-35 which is now powered by the F135 engine which was developed by Pratt & Whitney. Rolls-Royce has promised to jointly develop a new engine that is not based on the EJ-200 engine which powers Eurofighter Typhoon but has remained mum if it will be based on technology developed for the now-abandoned F136 engine for the F-35 program. Rolls-Royce already is working on a new engine to power the BAE lead Tempest 6th gen fighter jet program which will have its planned flight in 2030 and induction post-2040. Rolls-Royce has promised India full Intellectual property rights (IPRs) for the proposed engine and full Transfer of Technology (ToT) for the proposed joint venture engine for the AMCA Mark-2 but as per information provided to idrw.org, India will need to spend nearly $2.5 to $3 Billion in initial investment for Prototypes and ground/flight trials of the new engines plus manufacturing and procurement cost besides. but India will get an engine that is future-ready not only for AMCA Mark-2 but also for what will come out after the AMCA program in 2040.
 

HariPrasad-1

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2016
Messages
6,445
Likes
10,444
Country flag
sir the best thing about the MCA would be to fix a time frame for the work to start and the aim should be to to finish the work within the stipulated time.

its difficult for defense matters to follow such fixed timetable but would be great if india manages to do so.


thanks.
Lots of ambiguity still persist. There is no clarity on engine. new news pops up after every few days. Now there is a news that India is looking beyond F414 and EJ 2000. When you have such poor decision making, how can something come fast? you need to have clarity. Air force is unable to come up with GSQR in time and keeps changing it time to time. The purchase procedure is a mess.
 

Neil

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
2,805
Likes
3,403
Country flag




#BREAKING : 1) The #Indian Air Force and ADA have confirmed that the first #Indian 5th generation AMCA fighter will be delivered in Mark-1 and Mark-2 configurations. The Mark-1 will be powered by F414-INS6 engines.

2) However, as has been confirmed by reliable sources, either the F414 or EJ-200 engine options are unacceptable for the 5.5 generation AMCA - in the Mark-2 version, as these engines were never designed with the low ESR technology required for stealth aircraft.

3) 5.5 AMCA will require an engine that has future growth potential for use in 6th generation manned and unmanned programs. #India is in talks with Rolls-Royce. The company has promised to jointly develop a new engine that will not be based on the EJ-200.
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top