ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[Dark Sorrow]

IAF should buy 100 plus Rafale f4 with indian assembly line in next 7 to 8 yrs. This is the time we need to mature MK 2 and test actual AMCA.

Don't be so sure. Americans are still in the race. From what I hear GoI is warming up to F-15/F-16.

We need at least 100 mk2 like aircraft soon, Rafale is the only way. I am hopeful that GOI will get them plus engine deal as well to be 100% independent. That will be the day IAF only ask ADA, HAL not foreign maal.

We urgently need an private alternative to HAL.
Time and again HAL has proved itsilf to be incompetent, ineffective and sub-par.
IAF has realized this long time ago hence IAF is pushing private players like TATA, L&T, Mahindra , etc.

 

[MirageBlue]

Real vs paper.

Everything is on paper till it finds a customer to fund the development. In Tejas Mk2's case, ADA is proceeding along but there will be more funds required to progress it beyond initial prototype manufacture and development. It needs hundreds of flight tests as well, apart from 5-6 years of development and tweaking. That too Tejas Mk2 is OUR OWN program, not employing hundreds or thousands of foreigners, unlike any of the MRFA contestants. If the IAF doesn't step then who will??

Gripen E/F was only on paper during the last MMRCA contest. Didn't stop the IAF from including them in the evaluation as well.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

It's not about fake. News is true but there is a secrecy clause which is breached by Astra microwave. Only DRDO lab have right to disclose the news on appropriate time.

More like an employee at Astra Microwave has leaked some details regarding this and not directly themselves, they’ll probably have to conduct some internal investigations and do the needful.

 

[johnj]

Gripen E/F was only on paper during the last MMRCA contest. Didn't stop the IAF from including them in the evaluation as well.

Gripen like f16, mig 35, sh all in race, but iaf select rafale[french mirage] and ef[ italy,uk jaguar] means rest were for benchmarking. ''on paper'' all eu warplane aesa too, and only rafale aesa only under testing, and iaf chose eft and rafale, and not bk60[uae].

 

[johnj]

Don't be so sure. Americans are still in the race. From what I hear GoI is warming up to F-15/F-16.

We urgently need an private alternative to HAL.
Time and again HAL has proved itsilf to be incompetent, ineffective and sub-par.
IAF has realized this long time ago hence IAF is pushing private players like TATA, L&T, Mahindra , etc.

Yes, but IAF goes after rafale or eft or gripen and iaf not interested in heavy class,if f16 chosen again iaf ask more rafale, and cause issue with mk2, iaf use f16 to avoid mk2 and ask for twin engine medium class 4th gen rafale, no wounder iaf not showing interest in af version of tedbfa.
No private alternative to HAL. in near future.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Yes, but IAF goes after rafale or eft or gripen and iaf not interested in heavy class,if f16 chosen again iaf ask more rafale, and cause issue with mk2, iaf use f16 to avoid mk2 and ask for twin engine medium class 4th gen rafale, no wounder iaf not showing interest in af version of tedbfa.

The thing is MRFA program is not in IAF's hands now. MRFA has become a strategic, geo-political and diplomatic issue for GoI.
GoI has habit of using weapons purchase as a tool of foreign-policy and to earn diplomatic currency.
GoI is very much interested to deepen relations with US.
After looking at F-15 spec their have risen voices that have started favoring Americas, especially the AESA jammer.

As for indigenous platform its an open secret why IAF will try to avoid them.
I conclude by saying Su-75 checkmate is the biggest treat to AMCA program.

 

[Javelin_Sam]

The thing is MRFA program is not in IAF's hands now. MRFA has become a strategic, geo-political and diplomatic issue for GoI.
GoI has habit of using weapons purchase as a tool of foreign-policy and to earn diplomatic currency.
GoI is very much interested to deepen relations with US.
After looking at F-15 spec their have risen voices that have started favoring Americas, especially the AESA jammer.

As for indigenous platform its an open secret why IAF will try to avoid them.
I conclude by saying Su-75 checkmate is the biggest treat to AMCA program.

You have been pushing these F-15s for quite a while now. It won't happen. Simple.

 

[no smoking]

We urgently need an private alternative to HAL.
Time and again HAL has proved itsilf to be incompetent, ineffective and sub-par.
IAF has realized this long time ago hence IAF is pushing private players like TATA, L&T, Mahindra , etc.

Not that simple.
It is certainly good to have more competitors in the market. But it is wishful thinking that private companies will outperform the state-own companies in this area in short time. If you look around the world, you will find that: except those private companies with long history of weapon manufacturing (only those in developed countries), almost all of the private companies are not doing good. Why? Because they are facing the same issues: lack of experienced designers & workers, lack of tech accumulation, lack of high-end industrial processing machines, lack of R&D facilities, etc.

In addition to these issues, they have other disadvantages: their products are more expensive since they need high profit and they like to take short cut by working with foreign companies (for example, buying foreigners' outdated tech, pretending to be their own).

 

[karn]

Not that simple.
It is certainly good to have more competitors in the market. But it is wishful thinking that private companies will outperform the state-own companies in this area in short time. If you look around the world, you will find that: except those private companies with long history of weapon manufacturing (only those in developed countries), almost all of the private companies are not doing good. Why? Because they are facing the same issues: lack of experienced designers & workers, lack of tech accumulation, lack of high-end industrial processing machines, lack of R&D facilities, etc.

In addition to these issues, they have other disadvantages: their products are more expensive since they need high profit and they like to take short cut by working with foreign companies (for example, buying foreigners' outdated tech, pretending to be their own).

This is in the Indian context .. we have not been able to make our PSUs efficient unlike China.. Private sector is far more efficient and goal oriented .. all they need is govt funding and support which is usually eaten up by PSUs.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

You have been pushing these F-15s for quite a while now. It won't happen. Simple.

Its because I am moving with the tide, GoI is moving towards USA.
Post Operation Swift Retort IAF is doubling down on EW systems.
IAF is looking to integrate ELL-8251SB Scorpius - SJ on Rafale and probably MKIs.
When it comes to EW, US is undisputed champions.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

In addition to these issues, they have other disadvantages: their products are more expensive since they need high profit and they like to take short cut by working with foreign companies (for example, buying foreigners' outdated tech, pretending to be their own).

HAL also sells at high profit margin. Public sector companies like HAL are no exception for this as they are listed companies.

HAL as work culture of government company and pricing of private player. They sometimes tend to show monopolistic behaviors.

 

[SimplyIndian]

Its because I am moving with the tide, GoI is moving towards USA.
Post Operation Swift Retort IAF is doubling down on EW systems.
IAF is looking to integrate ELL-8251SB Scorpius - SJ on Rafale and probably MKIs.
When it comes to EW, US is undisputed champions.

rafale is coming....

 

[johnj]

The thing is MRFA program is not in IAF's hands now. MRFA has become a strategic, geo-political and diplomatic issue for GoI.
GoI has habit of using weapons purchase as a tool of foreign-policy and to earn diplomatic currency.
GoI is very much interested to deepen relations with US.
After looking at F-15 spec their have risen voices that have started favoring Americas, especially the AESA jammer.

As for indigenous platform its an open secret why IAF will try to avoid them.
I conclude by saying Su-75 checkmate is the biggest treat to AMCA program.

If you consider GoI interest only, USA already lost, iaf consider having some f 35, but not in the place of EU jets. In mmrca 1.0 GoI favoured US planes, LM with tata and Boeing with HAL, but IAF choose non of them. MMRCA for medium class jet, not heavy class, also f15 is highly expensive, and IAF ask modifications and requirement which make f15 1.5x more expensive compared to rafale, at the end iaf gets rafale close to 100s. In the first place [18 years ago] IAF wanted French jets[150-200] and now same.
P8, C130, brought by GOI and C17, AH64,Chinook choose by IAF and IAF still operates il76, mi26 and planning lch. F 35 not available to IAF, only US aircraft IAF mentioned during MMRCA.

 

[Javelin_Sam]

Its because I am moving with the tide, GoI is moving towards USA.
Post Operation Swift Retort IAF is doubling down on EW systems.
IAF is looking to integrate ELL-8251SB Scorpius - SJ on Rafale and probably MKIs.
When it comes to EW, US is undisputed champions.

Even the Tejas numbers have taken a cut due to the fact that a large fleet of American engines will be there in the fleet. For AMCA, they are putting F414 as a stopgap measure to develop and mature the AMCA platform. Why GoI is running around from RR to Suffren etc..are due to this fact and this is where french have an advantage over UK.

 

[flanker99]

All eyes on this when it comes out...lets see what the acm has to say.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

All eyes on this when it comes out...lets see what the acm has to say.

I guess many members can now calm down

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Still saying stuff like "interim solution". And not admitting that the Mk2 should be the mainstay going forward. They'll have their 100+ foreign MRFA no matter what.

 

[karn]

Still saying stuff like "interim solution". And not admitting that the Mk2 should be the mainstay going forward. They'll have their 100+ foreign MRFA no matter what.

Yes that is the priority.. Tejas mk 2 competitor is AMCA not mrfa. Only if amca gets delayed a lot will there be 200 + mk2. Export potential is good though if the can figure out a non American engine

 

[Blademaster]

Yes that is the priority.. Tejas mk 2 competitor is AMCA not mrfa. Only if amca gets delayed a lot will there be 200 + mk2. Export potential is good though if the can figure out a non American engine

No we need both. Tejas Mk2 is the cheap option necessary to shore up to the necessary 42 squadron mark while the AMCA is the gold plated plane that the IAF wants. AMCA will be the premier fighter attack plane and the mainstay of IAF's offensive operations.

 

[MirageBlue]

Still saying stuff like "interim solution". And not admitting that the Mk2 should be the mainstay going forward. They'll have their 100+ foreign MRFA no matter what.

It doesn't matter. Just the fact that he's made it clear that the Tejas Mk2 is part of the IAF's plans means a lot. Time will tell how things pan out, but with multiple types beginning to show their age, such as the Jaguar and MiG-29UPG, there will be no other option but to go with either Tejas Mk2 or MRFA to replace them. That will put the Tejas Mk2 in a good spot to get sizeable orders.

As the IAF will start using the Tejas Mk1A, there will be a definite mind-set change. What we can only hope for is that we don't get a UPA like alliance in power for the next decade..if that happens, we can expect them to pull back on indigenisation and want to start imports again to bring kickbacks back into the picture to fill their depleted coffers.