ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[Ghost hale]

If KFX can be classified as a 4.5 gen fighter. How does Tejas Mark 2 and ORCA fare against it?

Tejas Mk 2
Stealth Design - a notch lower
Thrust to weight - lesser
Avionics - claimed to be using AMCA starter package so should be comparable or a bit below.

Ideally it should be somewhere around 4.5 Gen if we consider KAI-FX as 5- Gen.
ORCA is non existent currently.

 

[Spitfire9]

If KFX can be classified as a 4.5 gen fighter. How does Tejas Mark 2 and ORCA fare against it?

Good question.

Another question might be: how will HAL's manufacturing performance with MWF compare with KAI's manufacturing performance with KF-X? HAL has been an embarrassing failure where manufacturing Tejas is concerned.

 

[Lonewolf]

Good question.

Another question might be: how will HAL's manufacturing performance with MWF compare with KAI's manufacturing performance with KF-X? HAL has been an embarrassing failure where manufacturing Tejas is concerned.

They are slow ,but quality is not bad .

Also kf x is much more expensive , maybe 100 million a piece , tejas mk 2 ,at best 55 million .

Kf x is designed on different doctrine , mk 2 will be the load bearer like f 16 worldwide .

It is not super manuverable fighter but a true multirole to supplement rafale and su 30mki .

It can carry 6.5 ton externally , a totally different offering compared to others , gripen expensive , f 16 heavier and better but much expensive , russian ,not single engine .

 

[Blank]

So Tejas MK2 can be a good match up against J-10, J-11 right?

 

[Lonewolf]

So Tejas MK2 can be a good match up against J-10, J-11 right?

J 11 , , su 30 variant vs single engine ??????????

 

[Blank]

J 11 , , su 30 variant vs single engine ??????????

I have heard J-11s (Su-27 clones I think) aren't that great. And since MK2 is newer, it should have edge in some areas I think.

J-16 is Su-30 clone with Su-35 elements.

 

[Lonewolf]

I have heard J-11 aren't that great. And since MK2 is newer, it should have edge in some areas I think.

More power , more powerful avionics , not good quality but more longer ranged .

Compare class wise , will be better than j 10 ,in most cases

 

[Ghost hale]

It can carry 6.5 ton externally , a totally different offering compared to others , gripen expensive , f 16 heavier and better but much expensive , russian ,not single engine .

Y that assumption?

I have heard J-11s (Su-27 clones I think) aren't that great. And since MK2 is newer, it should have edge in some areas I think.

J-16 is Su-30 clone with Su-35 elements.

Never good to compare fighters in different category. J-11 are flankers with AESA and longer combat range. About avionics ur guess is as good as mine. J 10c is considered to be best of the lot so far in terms of matured platform so MK2 should be within that range.

 

[The Maverick]

no offence but kfx looks a generation ahead ie real fifth generation airframe
both orca and tejas mark2 belong to era of Rafale and gripen ie 2000 to 2010 time frame
kfx looks 2020 plus time frame
were we match kfx mark1 is engines,are both ge414 version and I feel the radar and ew suites,and cockpit will be similar standard.
if I m honest we are 10 years,late with mark 2 tejas a d really should be rolling out Amca by 2025 ie 3 years,after kfx
as it is,I don't see Amca coming until 2030 first flight judging by past Hal and,drdo performance

 

[FalconSlayers]

J 11 , , su 30 variant vs single engine ??????????

It can carry 8 BVRs (highest in the world) so you can pretty much imagine the pain in the arse of the enemies. The only disappointment is the lack of DSI intake in the MK2.

 

[FalconSlayers]

no offence but kfx looks a generation ahead ie real fifth generation airframe
both orca and tejas mark2 belong to era of Rafale and gripen ie 2000 to 2010 time frame
kfx looks 2020 plus time frame
were we match kfx mark1 is engines,are both ge414 version and I feel the radar and ew suites,and cockpit will be similar standard.
if I m honest we are 10 years,late with mark 2 tejas a d really should be rolling out Amca by 2025 ie 3 years,after kfx
as it is,I don't see Amca coming until 2030 first flight judging by past Hal and,drdo performance

KF-X is based on F-22 Raptor’s design due to direct involvement of Lockheed Martin in the project as a consultant and currently lacks an Internal Weapons bay, although it has a semi-recessed bay for undercarriage of Munitions. AMCA is a better and advanced design considering F-22 Raptor is a 90s design. But hey the Raptor is classified so we should not make stupid assumptions also.

 

[SARTHAK]

i know most of you people will hate me after this but i still want tejas mk2 project to be merged with tedbf of navy and something like with a kfx to be made because the avionics part of tejas mk2 will be pretty strong and
will be comparable to amca but airframe will become a bottleneck because of lack of stealth aspect so kfx like design with tejas mk2 planned avionics would be fine , but for this to happen 1 sqdn of rafale f4 will be needed +some extra time for mk2 design to be improved on stealth aspects

 

[FalconSlayers]

i know most of you people will hate me after this but i still want tejas mk2 project to be merged with tedbf of navy and something like with a kfx to be made because the avionics part of tejas mk2 will be pretty strong and
will be comparable to amca but airframe will become a bottleneck because of lack of stealth aspect so kfx like design with tejas mk2 planned avionics would be fine , but for this to happen 1 sqdn of rafale f4 will be needed +some extra time for mk2 design to be improved on stealth aspects

Even ADA must have these thoughts but problem is time, if ADA goes for a different design for MK2 then it will take an additional decade for R&D and testing. And we don’t have enough time considering IAF is committed for 170-200 Tejas MK2 so they can’t delay this project. The existing design can use the data of Tejas TDs and IOC and FOC aircrafts.

 

[no smoking]

KF-X is based on F-22 Raptor’s design due to direct involvement of Lockheed Martin in the project as a consultant and currently lacks an Internal Weapons bay, although it has a semi-recessed bay for undercarriage of Munitions. AMCA is a better and advanced design considering F-22 Raptor is a 90s design. But hey the Raptor is classified so we should not make stupid assumptions also.

Exactly because the involvement of Lockheed Martin, Korean can access much better American technologies comparing to India. When Korean pulled out this design, they already have plenty of mature US/west technologies available to them. This minimize their technical risk.

On the other hand, there is a lot uncertainties regarding AMCA. Its outfit has kept changing. That make people wonder if Indian scientists have finally settle down their work with Indian industries. Meanwhile, the capability of India's domestic industries to supply the required sub-systems in time is another question. Even if India decides to rely on foreign technologies, the level of technologies won't match those provided to Koreans.

Most importantly, we haven seen the Korean jet on the assembly line while AMCA is still on the paper so far.

 

[Lonewolf]

Exactly because the involvement of Lockheed Martin, Korean can access much better American technologies comparing to India. When Korean pulled out this design, they already have plenty of mature US/west technologies available to them. This minimize their technical risk.

On the other hand, there is a lot uncertainties regarding AMCA. Its outfit has kept changing. That make people wonder if Indian scientists have finally settle down their work with Indian industries. Meanwhile, the capability of India's domestic industries to supply the required sub-systems in time is another question. Even if India decides to rely on foreign technologies, the level of technologies won't match those provided to Koreans.

Most importantly, we haven seen the Korean jet on the assembly line while AMCA is still on the paper so far.

And more importantly , I would like to ask how many countries have f 22 design (except china ) , nobody. That's their classified project , at most they will be allowed similar airframe but placement of avionics , layout , tech and all won't be allowed .

Usa already denied Koreans radar and some important avionics , are you talking of this type of access to western tech .

Korean jet on assembly is a 4.5 gen jet , amca design has been inconsistent due to change in configuration , dsi added recently , tailplanes changed , nose cone is changed a bit .

They have to develop a aesa , we already have one under testing , which outperforms elta 2052 on various parameters ,

 

[Ghost hale]

On the other hand, there is a lot uncertainties regarding AMCA. Its outfit has kept changing. That make people wonder if Indian scientists have finally settle down their work with Indian industries. Meanwhile, the capability of India's domestic industries to supply the required sub-systems in time is another question. Even if India decides to rely on foreign technologies, the level of technologies won't match those provided to Koreans.

Most importantly, we haven seen the Korean jet on the assembly line while AMCA is still on the paper so far.

No. Final design will be confirmed once RCS testing is done on Ground testing of 1:1 model planned for 2022 and is currently being made.
DCMAWS designed by 2008 and are currently in 3rd iteration with 360 coverage. RWR/LWR and jammers were started test by 2015 and were planned to induct by 2018-19. Last update in Mar 2020 was last development trial was to be done. Uttam AESA already have flight hours on it and will be in production in 2022. Western technologies can be bit mature but complete indigenous system provide better flexibility. Already far ahead in integrated EW suite and we still have a decade in ever upgrading system.

Development of D-29 System (Internal EW system for MIG-29 Upgrade Aircraft) | Defence Research and Development Organisation - DRDO, Ministry of Defence, Government of India

D-29 is an integrated EW system for Radar warning and jamming that encompasses RWR, ECM, ESM functions and utilizes state-of-the-art active phased arrays for selectively jamming the multiple threat radars. The D-29 system serves primarily as a self-protection jammer that will boost...

www.drdo.gov.in

Metal cutting started late Dec/early Jan. So, not just on paper.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Will LCA Tejas MK2 come with GaAs Radar or GaN radar?

 

[Ghost hale]

Will LCA Tejas MK2 come with GaAs Radar or GaN radar?

GaAs Radar initially. All radars will be upgraded as usual practice once GaN is developed but it will start with AMCA and then back track to at least MK2. MK1a not sure.

 

[Lonewolf]

GaAs Radar initially. All radars will be upgraded as usual practice once GaN is developed but it will start with AMCA and then back track to at least MK2. MK1a not sure.

No need of gan for mk 1a ,it is for smaller role , won't go alone in airspace , i think mk 2 may get gan after few batch ,as it will go in production in 2026 or so , in 2028 onwards we can put gan , as amca radar will be developed by then

 

[FalconSlayers]

No need of gan for mk 1a ,it is for smaller role , won't go alone in airspace , i think mk 2 may get gan after few batch ,as it will go in production in 2026 or so , in 2028 onwards we can put gan , as amca radar will be developed by then

I had a question, Dassault, Boeing have their offset commitments remaining, Dassault is spending it on Kaveri engine while boeing has done nothing. We should ask them for investment in AMCA and MK2.