ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[rohit b3]

Any video from yesterday's performance??

 

[Sunnytheworm]

Not much news about tejas success in Indian media ?

What are the reviews about it by experts? Are they impressed?

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

Not much news about tejas success in Indian media ?

What are the reviews about it by experts? Are they impressed?

The India media is under strict orders from their foreign patrons to not broadcast any achievements of Indians and to focus only on perceived failures.

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

Will the proposed 120 Tejas for airforce will all be with GE404IN20 engines?
Are we buying GE414INS6 only for navy?

Wikipedia says Airforce will get 120 Mk1, and 80 Mk2 Navy will get 40 Naval Tejas. So total 240, at least. Out of these 240 planes, 100 will have F414, rest 140 will have F404.

 

[Ved]

Wikipedia says Airforce will get 120 Mk1, and 80 Mk2 Navy will get 40 Naval Tejas. So total 240, at least. Out of these 240 planes, 100 will have F414, rest 140 will have F404.

Thats exactly my point. Why would you induct two models with different thrust for the same make?
mk2 will be much better in performance than mk1. Why would IAF induct mk1? just to break even for HAL?

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

Thats exactly my point. Why would you induct two models with different thrust for the same make?
mk2 will be much better in performance than mk1. Why would IAF induct mk1? just to break even for HAL?

That makes them two different types of weapons for two different mandates. What's the problem? There's a Tavor for full fledged war, there's also a micro Tavor for urban conflict. Same way, we have a MK1 and MK2 and Naval version with different mandates and capabilities.

This is a situation that is not unique to India. Whenever a weapon is developed and orders are placed, by the time the first batch of order is delivered, some sort of upgrade is available. What can they do? wait for all upgrades to happen at the same time? how is that possible? New systems will keep coming all the time, that shouldn't stop armies from inducting whatever is available.

Btw, Mk2 is 30 crores costlier than Mk1, so you can use the cheaper, less capable plane for corresponding types of fights like anti-tank war. Use your cutting edge planes for air warfare.

 

[kr9]

Wikipedia says Airforce will get 120 Mk1, and 80 Mk2 Navy will get 40 Naval Tejas. So total 240, at least. Out of these 240 planes, 100 will have F414, rest 140 will have F404.

Hi,

Won't there be 120 F414s - I thought Mk2s (IAF and IN) were all supposed to be fitted with the F414s??

Also, does anyone know what is going on with our Kaveri Engines?? There was some news saying that the program will be renewed with K10 and higher versions.

Thats exactly my point. Why would you induct two models with different thrust for the same make?
Mk2 will be much better in performance than mk1. Why would IAF induct mk1? just to break even for HAL?

I think Mk2 is still a short time away (awaiting the Uttam AESA, Astra BVRAAM integration etc). I think Mk2 has more home grown parts and the IAF needs to replace their Mig-21 squadrons before that.
But Mk1A and Mk2 has approx 30%-40% of parts as interchangeable. So I think eventually all will be upgraded to the Mk2 platform.

 

[AbRaj]

That makes them two different types of weapons for two different mandates. What's the problem? There's a Tavor for full fledged war, there's also a micro Tavor for urban conflict. Same way, we have a MK1 and MK2 and Naval version with different mandates and capabilities.

This is a situation that is not unique to India. Whenever a weapon is developed and orders are placed, by the time the first batch of order is delivered, some sort of upgrade is available. What can they do? wait for all upgrades to happen at the same time? how is that possible? New systems will keep coming all the time, that shouldn't stop armies from inducting whatever is available.

Btw, Mk2 is 30 crores costlier than Mk1, so you can use the cheaper, less capable plane for corresponding types of fights like anti-tank war. Use your cutting edge planes for air warfare.

Or USAF should have waited for just 20 sweet years to induct F22 instead of inferior F14 & F15

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

Hi,

Won't there be 120 F414s - I thought Mk2s (IAF and IN) were all supposed to be fitted with the F414s??

Also, does anyone know what is going on with our Kaveri Engines?? There was some news saying that the program will be renewed with K10 and higher versions.



I think Mk2 is still a short time away (awaiting the Uttam AESA, Astra BVRAAM integration etc). I think Mk2 has more home grown parts and the IAF needs to replace their Mig-21 squadrons before that.
But Mk1A and Mk2 has approx 30%-40% of parts as interchangeable. So I think eventually all will be upgraded to the Mk2 platform.

Both IAF and Navy are getting some Mk1 and some Mk2 because the Navy has its own development program to make the entire Tejas platform Navy compatible (heavier landing gear and arrester hooks for aircraft carrier role). There is also a licence production contract with GE, so I don't know how many 404 and how many 414 HAL will manufacture locally. That's what is creating the confusion. But leaving aside the specifics, all I can say for sure is that we will make roughly 200 planes, half of them will have 404, and rest half will have 414. Let's not scratch our heads over minute details, we all know such information will never be made available by the establishment anyway. Anyway, both Mk1 and Mk2 will be kept updated with latest radar, missiles, seekers and sensors as and when they are developed. The only difference will be the engine thrust. That aspect only affects your top end speed (supercruise) otherwise everything else is same.

As for Kaveri, it is going to be used for 3 applications : there will be a Kaveri powered train, Kaveri powered Frigate, and Kaveri powered unmanned stealth aircraft. All 3 of these have been verified by news citations, you can find them on google.

 

[kstriya]

Both IAF and Navy are getting some Mk1 and some Mk2 because the Navy has its own development program to make the entire Tejas platform Navy compatible (heavier landing gear and arrester hooks for aircraft carrier role). There is also a licence production contract with GE, so I don't know how many 404 and how many 414 HAL will manufacture locally. That's what is creating the confusion. But leaving aside the specifics, all I can say for sure is that we will make roughly 200 planes, half of them will have 404, and rest half will have 414. Let's not scratch our heads over minute details, we all know such information will never be made available by the establishment anyway. Anyway, both Mk1 and Mk2 will be kept updated with latest radar, missiles, seekers and sensors as and when they are developed. The only difference will be the engine thrust. That aspect only affects your top end speed (supercruise) otherwise everything else is same.

As for Kaveri, it is going to be used for 3 applications : there will be a Kaveri powered train, Kaveri powered Frigate, and Kaveri powered unmanned stealth aircraft. All 3 of these have been verified by news citations, you can find them on google.

A fighter aircraft replaces approximately 3 engine's in its lifetime, with 100 mk1a we will need 300 engine's. Is there no way we can use the K9 in MK1a which will be15% lighter and 8% reduced drag. Can some improvement in K9 do it? Eventually MK1a can have more composites making further room for weight reduction and increased T/W ratio.

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

A fighter aircraft replaces approximately 3 engine's in its lifetime, with 100 mk1a we will need 300 engine's. Is there no way we can use the K9 in MK1a which will be15% lighter and 8% reduced drag. Can some improvement in K9 do it? Eventually MK1a can have more composites making further room for weight reduction and increased T/W ratio.

very well said. I am myself not very excited about the incorporation of foreign engines in Tejas. I am sure, they are developing Kaveri behind the scenes to catch up with the desired thrust and hopefully they will replace the GE engines. Or maybe the ToT that GE gives us will be uses in amalgamation with Kaveri to finally make a more powerful Kaveri engine. It makes no sense in scrapping Kaveri, I hope they haven't scrapped it.

 

[silicon3]

FYI.. not sure whether photoshopped video or not but 'Bandar' doing a vertical take off at Paris Air Show 2015

sure seems to be a photoshop....

 

[Batfan]

sure seems to be a photoshop....

Nope its not I checked for jf17 in Paris airshow and got a better video which did seemed to be legit.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[tejas warrior]

Wikipedia says Airforce will get 120 Mk1, and 80 Mk2 Navy will get 40 Naval Tejas. So total 240, at least. Out of these 240 planes, 100 will have F414, rest 140 will have F404.

It's old news.

IAF will get 20 Mk1 + 100 Mk1-A.

Navy's plan for Mk2 remain same.

IAF will later decide for Mk2 numbers.

 

[tejas warrior]

Thats exactly my point. Why would you induct two models with different thrust for the same make?
mk2 will be much better in performance than mk1. Why would IAF induct mk1? just to break even for HAL?

Point is Mk2 is not yet ready. It will take minimum 2022 when it can be ready for production.

On other hand, Mk1 & improved Mk1-A itself are potent fighters(better than Mirage 2000, jf-17 etc..) and IAF needs numbers. Also, they are quite economical and will provide Base for aircraft manufacturing industry in India. So, its good decision to go with mk1 & mk1-A till Mk2 is ready.

 

[tejas warrior]

very well said. I am myself not very excited about the incorporation of foreign engines in Tejas. I am sure, they are developing Kaveri behind the scenes to catch up with the desired thrust and hopefully they will replace the GE engines. Or maybe the ToT that GE gives us will be uses in amalgamation with Kaveri to finally make a more powerful Kaveri engine. It makes no sense in scrapping Kaveri, I hope they haven't scrapped it.

Updates on Kaveri program.

Also, there is a separate thread for Kaveri, check that for all updates.

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/kaveri-engine.5097/page-61

http://www.oneindia.com/bengaluru/o...roject-gtre-gets-revival-package-1565505.html

 

[guru-dutt]

Point is Mk2 is not yet ready. It will take minimum 2022 when it can be ready for production.

On other hand, Mk1 & improved Mk1-A itself are potent fighters(better than Mirage 2000, jf-17 etc..) and IAF needs numbers. Also, they are quite economical and will provide Base for aircraft manufacturing industry in India. So, its good decision to go with mk1 & mk1-A till Mk2 is ready.

i guess we can make MK1a better by adding a couple of wingtip pylons and DSI

 

[Lions Of Punjab]

Tejas video from Bahrain Air Show .

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Thanks a lot

Ye jo vertical climb wala maneuver jo tejas ne kiya hai wo to sala mai ne Gripen ko ya F 16 ko bhi karte hue nahi dekha. I show double spin for the first time on tejas. No I can say with full confident that MK2 shall be a real fuC*er. Avinash chander was very right when he said that when we compare tejas, we find it better than its counterparts. If we make the second A/C of our own, it shall be absolutely top class.

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

Ye jo vertical climb wala maneuver jo tejas ne kiya hai wo to sala mai ne Gripen ko ya F 16 ko bhi karte hue nahi dekha. I show double spin for the first time on tejas. No I can say with full confident that MK2 shall be a real fuC*er. Avinash chander was very right when he said that when we compare tejas, we find it better than its counterparts. If we make the second A/C of our own, it shall be absolutely top class.

Rightly said. There are also other features in Tejas, such as the fact that the electronics have been specifically made and tested to withstand EMP blasts caused by nuclear weapons or standalone EMP weapons while other planes would just fall from the skies if their electronics were attacked by EMP waves. Tejas is also 80% carbon composite which makes it extremely light, tough and maintenance is easy and affordable than metal parts. While metal planes have to be checked manually for bends, cracks and this doesn't show up immediately, they are susceptible to sudden breaking. Tejas being composite material plane can be checked for structural flaws in an ultrasonic scanner which shows % damage, bending, etc and you can add material to repair it. Also Tejas uses first of its kind in-built oxygen maker for the pilot. Also, Tejas has some indegenous components which allow it to have cold start without any special heating device. It was tested in Himalayas, it was left outdoors for whole night to freeze then the plane was started in the morning, it worked flawlessly. No other plane has this. I think it's some sort of digital fuel-air mixing technology.

Think about the power of Tejas single seat version, with a more powerful engine and less weight. Everyone will start shitting in their pants.