Would India have been better off had the Axis won World War II?

[LETHALFORCE]

Re: Indische Legion

Are you so naive so as to credit the British alone with the Partition of India?? If yes, I'm sure I can't reason any more with you. If No, then I shall take this opportunity to remind you that of all the Colonial Powers, the British have been the most well behaved. They haven't tried to forcefully establish their religion like the Portuguese or Spanish and they haven't tried to suppress the independence movement through wars like the French in Indo-China or Algeria.

I'm only saying that Netaji was about to hand over INDIAN territories to regimes that were much more brutal than the British. Regimes which killed a lot of people in the FEW years they were in power in foreign lands. British rule isn't the issue here, but his actions are. The British will always come out smelling Roses if it will be compared to Nazi germany or wartime Japan.

Yes I am giving the British 100 percent of the credit for the partitioning of india. The only reason British did
Not succeed in wide scale conversion of the masses is the population was too vast but they surely tried
And did suceed in some areas.

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Indische Legion

What else were you thinking would happen if the Azad Hind Fauj, allying itself with Japs or Germans(the Japs having a very real chance) won over British defences? I cannot believe you would be so naive as to think they'd treat Indians with great respect and work towards Indian Independence.

You don't know a lot of things about Subhash Bose that you are spewing drivel.

1. He made it clear to the Germans that India will be ruled by Indians and not by Germans to which the Germans agreed.
2. He made Hitler promise that Indian PoWs in Europe may only be used against the British forces, to which he agreed.
3. Even if the Germans were to renege on their promise, they would not have had the wherewithal to do it after the war.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Re: Indische Legion

Last I remembered, it was the Brits ruling us and the Americans Nuke-bombing the Japs. How are the two related other than the fact that they were wartime allies? I never said the Axis was a bad coalition, but specifically the Germans and the Japanese. A distinctions needs to be made between wartime alliances and individual Governmental actions. The Brits aren't known for any large-scale wartime atrocities and let's leave them at that.

How is the Japanese/Germans gaining a foothold in India beneficial to us in any way? It's like saying I made use of Leukemia to get rid of AIDS!

Civilian bombing of dresden,,hamburg and Munich continously around the clock
Are considered by many germans and even german american friends I have to
Be war time atrocities.

 

[Phantom]

Re: Indische Legion

You don't know a lot of think about Subhash Bose that you are spewing drivel.

1. He made it clear to the Germans that India will be ruled by Indians and not by Germans to which the Germans agreed.
2. He made Hitler promise that Indian PoW in Europe may only be used against the British forces, to which the Germans agreed.
3. Even if the Germans were to renege on their promise, they would not have had the wherewithal to do it after the war.

Yeah, Right. The man who said during Appeasement that he wouldn't attack Poland, but later did; the man who made a non-aggression pact with the Soviets only to break it and invade them later, was somehow expected to keep his word to our Netaji! In case Hitler went back on his word(which was fairly common for him), how exactly would Netaji ensure India wouldn't fall into German hands??

I too have read a few things about the War and about Netaji. What I'm not prepared to believe, however, are illogical claims that the Germans and Japanese were better than the British and that their encroachment into India was somehow good for us all.

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Indische Legion

Yeah, Right. The man who said during Appeasement that he wouldn't attack Poland, but later did; the man who made a non-aggression pact with the Soviets only to break it and invade them later, was somehow expected to keep his word to our Netaji! In case Hitler went back on his word(which was fairly common for him), how exactly would Netaji ensure India wouldn't fall into German hands??

Deception is part of warfare. The Brits did it. After the war, the Brits were struggling to keep the Empire. The collapse of the colonies was inevitable. Neither the Germans or the Japanese, no matter how much they wished, could have colonized India.

I too have read a few things about the War and about Netaji.

You have read a lot of fairy tales, that is for sure.

What I'm not prepared to believe, however, are illogical claims that the Germans and Japanese were better than the British and

That's your problem.

that their encroachment into India was somehow good for us all.

German and Japanese encroachment into India is good for us all? Who said that? Post a reference.

 

[Phantom]

Re: Indische Legion

Civilian bombing of dresden,,hamburg and Munich continously around the clock
Are considered by many germans and even german american friends I have to
Be war time atrocities.

These were a consequence of the Blitz on London. Not to forget the total annihilation of Antwerp by the Germans. And who can forget Stalingrad? Conventional bombing of cities would be a natural outcome of Total War, but to say things like Genocide are logical during war...well, ask your German friends what they think about it.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Re: Indische Legion

Yeah, Right. The man who said during Appeasement that he wouldn't attack Poland, but later did; the man who made a non-aggression pact with the Soviets only to break it and invade them later, was somehow expected to keep his word to our Netaji! In case Hitler went back on his word(which was fairly common for him), how exactly would Netaji ensure India wouldn't fall into German hands??

I too have read a few things about the War and about Netaji. What I'm not prepared to believe, however, are illogical claims that the Germans and Japanese were better than the British and that their encroachment into India was somehow good for us all.

If japanese and germans supported indian independence and British did not why is this illogical?

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Re: Indische Legion

These were a consequence of the Blitz on London. Not to forget the total annihilation of Antwerp by the Germans. And who can forget Stalingrad? Conventional bombing of cities would be a natural outcome of Total War, but to say things like Genocide are logical during war...well, ask your German friends what they think about it.

Genocide is an atrocity no debate about that but genocide was happening
For many years before ww2 started. And Brits were aware of it.

 

[Phantom]

Re: Indische Legion

Genocide is an atrocity no debate about that but genocide was happening
For many years before ww2 started. And Brits were aware of it.

And the two biggest Genocidal regimes during WW2 were the Germans and Japs. How exactly does one reason with a regime that believes an entire race is superior/inferior? YOU CAN'T.

All I am saying is that in case Netaji's plans bore fruit(however unlikely they were) who was to ensure the Germans/Japs did not bring in their brand of ethnic cleansing to India?

 

[Phantom]

Re: Indische Legion

If japanese and germans supported indian independence and British did not why is this illogical?

Since when are Nazi Germany and Japanese Empire of WW2 known for their integrity?? They promised a lot and reneged on a lot of promises during the course of the War.

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Indische Legion

Since when are Nazi Germany and Japanese Empire of WW2 known for their integrity?? They promised a lot and reneged on a lot of promises during the course of the War.

Since when?

Germans: Since May 1942. They never reneged on their promise. When Germans decided to invade USSR, they understood the problem they were creating for Netaji, and actually helped him relocate to Japan, in a German U-Boat, and later, on a Japanese sub.

Japanese: Since February 1943, when Netaji transferred from a German U-Boat to a Japanese sub.

 

[Phantom]

Re: Indische Legion

Deception is part of warfare. The Brits did it. After the war, the Brits were struggling to keep the Empire. The collapse of the colonies was inevitable. Neither the Germans or the Japanese, no matter how much they wished, could have colonized India.

You have read a lot of fairy tales, that is for sure.

That's your problem.

German and Japanese encroachment into India is good for us all? Who said that? Post a reference.

How exacly can you say with surety that if the Axis were victors in WW2, the Germans/Japanese wouldn't have held on to India? Is it only based on the promises that they'd made to Netaji?

Regarding your next replies, Don't start getting personal dude, stick to the topic.

Posts number 62 and 67 make it amply clear who you'd prefer in India over the Brits.

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Indische Legion

How exacly can you say with surety that if the Axis were victors in WW2, the Germans/Japanese wouldn't have held on to India? Is it only based on the promises that they'd made to Netaji?

I cannot say anything "exactly." I am not Nostradamus. Common sense, a basic idea of economics, and historical accounts of the political strengths of European powers at the end of WW2 should be a good pointer. If you want to keep harping about German/Japanese control over India, or Netaji handing over India territory to them, by all means do so. (Already explained, and now explained for the second time.)

Regarding your next replies, Don't start getting personal dude, stick to the topic.

No one is getting personal. You are writing fairy tales, and I am pointing that out.

Posts number 62 and 67 make it amply clear who you'd prefer in India over the Brits.

Couldn't care to go back and read. Post links or quote.

 

[Phantom]

Re: Indische Legion

Since when?

Germans: Since May 1942. They never reneged on their promise. When Germans decided to invade USSR, they understood the problem they were creating for Netaji, and actually helped him relocate to Japan, in a German U-Boat, and later, on a Japanese sub.

Japanese: Since May 1943, when Netaji transferred from a German U-Boat to a Japanese sub.

LOL...Breaking the Non-aggression pact with the Ruskies isn't a breach of trust by the Nazis in your book?

And why exactly would it be a problem for Netaji had he stayed on in Germany after they began a war with USSR? How is Netaji moving about in axis submarines a sign of integrity on part of the Axis?? These hardly suggest they would've stuck to their word had they won WW2.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Re: Indische Legion

Since when are Nazi Germany and Japanese Empire of WW2 known for their integrity?? They promised a lot and reneged on a lot of promises during the course of the War.

What other. Alternatives did india have? All the Indian eggs were in uk's
Basket. I am not sure if you are British you have some good points and you
Should be proud if you are but you don't have to be defensive of what happen
In the past none of us are responsible for it. But india at that time had
Very limited options and whatever was offered at that time must have sounded
Sweet.

 

[Phantom]

Re: Indische Legion

I cannot say anything "exactly." I am not Nostradamus. Common sense, a basic idea of economics, and historical accounts of the political strengths of European powers at the end of WW2 should be a good pointer. If you want to keep harping about German/Japanese control over India, or Netaji handing over India territory to them, by all means do so. (Already explained, and now explained for the second time.)

No one is getting personal. You are writing fairy tales, and I am pointing that out.

Couldn't care to go back and read. Post links or quote.

Precisely. The trend followed by these Autocratic regimes, coupled with their behavior before and during the War lead me to believe that seeking their help and bringing them to our doorsteps wasn't in the best interests of India.

Feel free to quote any factual errors on my posts before you reach your assessment that I'm stating fairy tales.

I am not your servant to retrieve your posts for you. I've quoted where you've indicated your preference. It's up to you to read them if you wish.

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Indische Legion

LOL...Breaking the Non-aggression pact with the Ruskies isn't a breach of trust by the Nazis in your book?

Any poster who uses "LOL" should not be taken seriously. I know you are being a troll-bot here, but I will answer.

I don't care who did what to whom, as long as it is not India. Did the Germans betray India? No. Did the Brits betray India? Yes. That settles it.

And why exactly would it be a problem for Netaji had he stayed on in Germany after they began a war with USSR? How is Netaji moving about in axis submarines a sign of integrity on part of the Axis?? These hardly suggest they would've stuck to their word had they won WW2.

As I said, I cannot give an "exact" answer, but, in short, Netaji's plans were an overland invasion using German and Soviet help. It is a long history. Read up on it. There are plenty of posts in DFI.

 

[Phantom]

Re: Indische Legion

What other. Alternatives did india have? All the Indian eggs were in uk's
Basket. I am not sure if you are British you have some good points and you
Should be proud if you are but you don't have to be defensive of what happen
In the past none of us are responsible for it. But india at that time had
Very limited options and whatever was offered at that time must have sounded
Sweet.

Hahaha...I am a Proud Indian dude. I say these only because some people mistakenly believe that Netaji's plans were somehow brilliant. Fact is, they weren't. As I've stated before, neither would his actions have anything other than nuisance value in the real scheme of things, nor would it be a good idea to be indebted to someone like Nazi Germany or Japanese Empire.

Indian Independence after WW2 was a foregone conclusion. Whatever Britain did, it could have only temporarily prolonged her stay in India, but not by much. In the end, Netaji's actions did nothing to hasten her departure, and yet Britain was gone by August 15, 1947!

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Indische Legion

Feel free to quote any factual errors on my posts before you reach your assessment that I'm stating fairy tales.

We are not talking about facts. We are talking about hypotheses. It is you who started this with non-facts, such as, but not limited to, "would have," "could have." When the subject of discussion is hypothetical, there is no fact. Got it?

I am not your servant to retrieve your posts for you. I've quoted where you've indicated your preference. It's up to you to read them if you wish.

I choose not to read. It is too inconvenient.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Re: Indische Legion

Hahaha...I am a Proud Indian dude. I say these only because some people mistakenly believe that Netaji's plans were somehow brilliant. Fact is, they weren't. As I've stated before, neither would his actions have anything other than nuisance value in the real scheme of things, nor would it be a good idea to be indebted to someone like Nazi Germany or Japanese Empire.

Indian Independence after WW2 was a foregone conclusion. Whatever Britain did, it could have only temporarily prolonged her stay in India, but not by much. In the end, Netaji's actions did nothing to hasten her departure, and yet Britain was gone by August 15, 1947!

Netaji will always be the greatest indian of that era he believed in a military solution
And created an army while under colonial tyranny something no one else I can think
Of doing .