Would India have been better off had the Axis won World War II?

[Phantom]

Re: Indische Legion

Any poster who uses "LOL" should not be taken seriously. I know you are being a troll-bot here, but I will answer.

I don't care who did what to whom, as long as it is not India. Did the Germans betray India? No. Did the Brits betray India? Yes. That settles it.



As I said, I cannot give an "exact" answer, but, in short, Netaji's plans were an overland invasion using German and Soviet help. It is a long history. Read up on it. There are plenty of posts in DFI.

Sure. You need not take me seriously. I merely voiced my opinion here, but it was you who couldn't somehow ignore it.

And how many years did the Germans get to rule us that you say so triumphantly it wasn't the Germans but the British who betrayed us? Obviously, you'll have more reasons to be cross with a Nation that ruled us for 200 years than with a Nation that never ruled us. Did we gain Independence from Germans? No...Did we gain Independence from British? Yes. That should settle something too.

 

[Phantom]

Re: Indische Legion

Netaji will always be the greatest indian of that era he believed in a military solution
And created an army while under colonial tyranny something no one else I can think
Of doing .

Again, his intent was NEVER in doubt. He was no doubt a great patriot. But any claims of his idea to find a military solution to our Independence were brilliant, that too in collusion with the Japanese, should be taken with a pinch of salt.

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Indische Legion

And how many years did the Germans get to rule us that you say so triumphantly it wasn't the Germans but the British who betrayed us?

For country A to betray country B, is it a pre-requisite that A has to rule B?

 

[Phantom]

Re: Indische Legion

For country A to betray country B, is it a pre-requisite that A has to rule B?

If by betrayal one is referring to genocide/mass murder, then yes.

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Indische Legion

If by betrayal one is referring to genocide/mass murder, then yes.

Betrayal means to say something and do the opposite, or promise something and break the promise. Is there anyone in DFI who disagrees with this definition?

 

[Phantom]

Re: Indische Legion

Betrayal means to say something and do the opposite, or promise something and break the promise. Is there anyone in DFI who disagrees with this definition?

Sure. It's considered betrayal if you indicate support for a cause and do not back it up...If one considers the fact that Hitler repeatedly refused to issue a declaration supporting India's independence, suggesting that he personally did not support Bose's cause.

Hitler had also written in Mein Kampf that he preferred to see India under the British than under any other country.

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Indische Legion

Sure. It's considered betrayal if you indicate support for a cause and do not back it up...If one considers the fact that Hitler repeatedly refused to issue a declaration supporting India's independence, suggesting that he personally did not support Bose's cause.

"Hitler refused sign a declaration . . . blah blah blah?"

Hitler funded Freies Indische Legion (Free Indian Legion). He funded their salary, rifles, ammo, gave them uniforms, funded its own newspaper, radio, postal system, while the European English, Irish, and Scottish PoW officers were being made to labour in labour camps.

Hitler had also written in Mein Kampf that he preferred to see India under the British than under any other country.

That was long before he had a change of heart. In fact, he was impressed by the Indians' performance against the Italians in North Africa.

 

[bose]

Re: Indische Legion

Hahaha...I am a Proud Indian dude. I say these only because some people mistakenly believe that Netaji's plans were somehow brilliant. Fact is, they weren't. As I've stated before, neither would his actions have anything other than nuisance value in the real scheme of things, nor would it be a good idea to be indebted to someone like Nazi Germany or Japanese Empire.

Indian Independence after WW2 was a foregone conclusion. Whatever Britain did, it could have only temporarily prolonged her stay in India, but not by much. In the end, Netaji's actions did nothing to hasten her departure, and yet Britain was gone by August 15, 1947!

So Mr Proud Indian, going by your logic Bhagat Singh's sacrifice was also did help in gaining India's Independence... right???

 

[Phantom]

Re: Indische Legion

"Hitler refused sign a declaration . . . blah blah blah?"

Hitler funded Freies Indische Legion (Free Indian Legion). He funded their salary, rifles, ammo, gave them uniforms, funded its own newspaper, radio, postal system, while the European English, Irish, and Scottish PoW officers were being made to labour in labour camps.


That was long before he had a change of heart. In fact, he was impressed by the Indians' performance against the Italians in North Africa.

And where did he have the Freies Indisches Legion fight? Against the British in India or against the Allies in Europe?? He needed all the men he could get to continue his fight in Europe and he used us. What's so great about it?

Sure he was impressed with the fighting abilities of Azad Hind Fauj, but did he ever advocate for Indian independence from Britain?

 

[Phantom]

Re: Indische Legion

So Mr Proud Indian, going by your logic Bhagat Singh's sacrifice was also did help in gaining India's Independence... right???

How many Nazis and Japanese helped Bhagat Singh in his actions against the British??

All I am saying is that Netaji, in his desperation to oust the British, came very close to inviting a greater trouble into India. How can you even compare Bhagat Singh and Netaji in that aspect?

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Indische Legion

And where did he have the Freies Indisches Legion fight? Against the British in India or against the Allies in Europe?? He needed all the men he could get to continue his fight in Europe and he used us. What's so great about it?

Sure he was impressed with the fighting abilities of Azad Hind Fauj, but did he ever advocate for Indian independence from Britain?

Actually my point was to counter that claim that Hitler never supported Indian independence (he refused to sign some declaration, you said), when in reality, he actually did support and literally fund an Indian government in exile.

 

[Phantom]

Re: Indische Legion

Actually my point was to counter that claim that Hitler never supported Indian independence (he refused to sign some declaration, you said), when in reality, he actually did support and literally fund an Indian government in exile.

Hitler had very little interest in Bose's plans till the very end. It was only the Abwehr that took any interest in Bose. The Free Indian Legion was actually started by recruiting a few amateur Indian Students studying in Germany at the time. It wasn't until 1942 that a few Indian POWs were added to the legion. German accounts from the time also show that they had very little respect, if any, to the Freies Indisches Legion till 1942.

It was the Japanese who actually supported Netaji better and who sought a way into India through him and AHF.

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Indische Legion

Hitler had very little interest in Bose's plans till the very end. It was only the Abwehr that took any interest in Bose. The Free Indian Legion was actually started by recruiting a few amateur Indian Students studying in Germany at the time. It wasn't until 1942 that a few Indian POWs were added to the legion. German accounts from the time also show that they had very little respect, if any, to the Freies Indisches Legion till 1942.

It was the Japanese who actually supported Netaji better and who sought a way into India through him and AHF.

What you are saying here is probably correct and I will take your word for it.

 

[bose]

Re: Indische Legion

How many Nazis and Japanese helped Bhagat Singh in his actions against the British??

He was very close to the Socialist ideas and was inspired by Soviet revolution... If he would have been alive for some more years there were all indications that he would have aligned with the Soviet ideas...

All I am saying is that Netaji, in his desperation to oust the British, came very close to inviting a greater trouble into India. How can you even compare Bhagat Singh and Netaji in that aspect?

Netaji was not desperate as you say... He was driven to what you called "DESPERATION" by the Congress when Gandhi Ji in spite being defeated in the Congress President election went out for a hunger protest because Netaji won the president election in spite of his opposition [to put it in a civilized language]...

Netaji's LOVE for MOTHER INDIA is unquestionable... He wanted material support from Anti British forces be it any sources... yes he did take assistance from Imperial Japan and Germany how have caused immense sufferings in south east Asia... that does not mean that Netaji's supports Japan's war efforts...

One thing is to be remembered that atrocities were committed by British TOO on the same scale of Germany & Japan"¦ did you forgot how British starved 6 million Indians in early 40's ??? Is it less heinous that the killing by Nazi's or Japan's ??

 

[Deccani]

Re: Indische Legion

Betrayal means to say something and do the opposite, or promise something and break the promise. Is there anyone in DFI who disagrees with this definition?

It was about the fate of millions and word like betrayal is having no meaning

 

[Deccani]

Re: Indische Legion

Food supply was a method of controlling the masses a scorched earth policy of sorts.
If you were good you eat bad you starve.

This tactic was used in border areas and these areas were under British control but in case of Princely states different methods was used which was mainly using of loud speakers, pamphlets etc and would like to add one more point , communication was even a problem because of language barrier

 

[Deccani]

Re: Indische Legion

Missionaries were not unique to Nanjing alone. A lot many Asian cities were hosting Missionaries. Let's not muddle the issue by raising trivial players in the second Sino-Japanese war. Fact remains that the Japanese were brutal racists and did not hesitate to indulge in mass atrocities during WW2, not just in Nanking, but other places in the Pacific too.

Japanese did used the missionaries activities as a threat to Buddhism and as i said there were already revolts against the European powers in China and if to see more carefully at the time of Sepoy mutiny against the British empire in India , the very same period there were even revolts done by the Chinese.

 

[Deccani]

Re: Indische Legion

Hahaha...I am a Proud Indian dude. I say these only because some people mistakenly believe that Netaji's plans were somehow brilliant. Fact is, they weren't. As I've stated before, neither would his actions have anything other than nuisance value in the real scheme of things, nor would it be a good idea to be indebted to someone like Nazi Germany or Japanese Empire.

Indian Independence after WW2 was a foregone conclusion. Whatever Britain did, it could have only temporarily prolonged her stay in India, but not by much. In the end, Netaji's actions did nothing to hasten her departure, and yet Britain was gone by August 15, 1947!

If there would be no second world war then may be till now we would not be an Independent country along with the rest of the other nations from Middle east, Africa, Latin America and Asia . Second world war did changed the whole colonial concept because that war was waged by the super powers of that time in which all the tactics were used . But one thing which everyone always forget during that time that for both Axis and Allies , Indian nation was the most important even there Chinese fought from both sides .

 

[Deccani]

Re: Indische Legion

Since when?

Germans: Since May 1942. They never reneged on their promise. When Germans decided to invade USSR, they understood the problem they were creating for Netaji, and actually helped him relocate to Japan, in a German U-Boat, and later, on a Japanese sub.

Japanese: Since February 1943, when Netaji transferred from a German U-Boat to a Japanese sub.

Germans in real were alarmed by the Communism and advancement of the red army as Red army was at the gates of Warsaw in 1920 and during that time Ethnic Russians were moving out towards all the directions in systemic way and it was mainly because of the defeat of the German, Austrian nations during the first world war and to counter all this Germans used Nazism which was mainly to reunite all the Germanic tribes against the Communist invasion and the world war was like even war of the nations which resulted in the deaths of millions of people world wide in which all the nations equally suffered be it the axis or allies but still there are nations which see everything in terms of race and are making all the other nations to again stand for their dignity because of their racist attitudes and these people are having very bad opinion about Indians .