Turkish defense industry news updates

[Vamsi]

We had no money then Turks are incredibly rich bro

Money alone isn't sufficient, you need the expertise, you need the "Know-how" & "know-why", most of the scientists currently working on Tejas-Mk2,AMCA & TEDBF, all of them once worked on Tejas & they gained expertise from it. That's how you get the "know-how" & "know-why".....

No one will give you the "know-how" & "know-why" just because you are giving money.....

 

[Abdus Salem killed]

Money alone isn't sufficient, you need the expertise, you need the "Know-how" & "know-why", most of the scientists currently working on Tejas-Mk2,AMCA & TEDBF, all of then once worked on Tejas & they gained expertise from it. That's how you get the "know-how" & "know-why".

Why will BAE systems give Turks the plane ?

 

[Vamsi]

Why will BAE systems give Turks the plane ?

They will give the product....but in future if Turks want to design, let's say a Carrier based aircraft,they will again have to run to BAE, because in this partnership they will get the aircraft not the capability to design it on their own.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Regardless of who designed this bird, it's already in prototype construction phase. We didn't even sanction the funds for AMCA yet.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Why will BAE systems give Turks the plane ?

BAE's involvement in this project will greatly benefit the Tempest program. I suspect various subsystems might be tested on the TF-X, and they even planned a joint venture agreement with Rolls-Royce for new engines.

 

[rodeo]

Is there any info on the Aesa?

There are several AESA radar developments for aerial platforms. The first one is called MURAD and will be used by F16s and AKINCI and possibly by KIZILELMA. This radar will be delivered next month to BAYKAR to test on AKINCI drone and next year it will be integrated to F16. The features of it;

MURAD 1000+ GaN T/R

GaN T/R Module
PAE(Power Added Efficiency) : Rumors start from %37 and reach as high as %54
20W nominal 30W peak output power per module (20kW power-30kW peak power for radar plus several kW for accessories like LRUs etc.)
Multilayer LTCC packaging (Low-Temperature Co-fired Ceramic)
SIGE (Silicon-Germanium) multifunction BICMOS IC/Core Chip (either on 130 or 150nm/0.13-0.15μm)
GaN MMIC (likely on 150nm 0.15μm)
Digital beamforming+cognitive radar algorithms.
Specially designed ethylene glycol+water liquid cooling system with microchannels.

The radar for TFX is called BÜRFİS. It will be much larger than MURAD radar but we don't have much information about it.

@TheInsider from defencehub says it will have 2.000+ T/R GaN modules. The above specs of MURAD was shared by him also. He has sources in the industry.

 

[rodeo]

They will give the product....but in future if Turks want to design, let's say a Carrier based aircraft,they will again have to run to BAE, because in this partnership they will get the aircraft not the capability to design it on their own.

You just say stuff completely out of your realm of knowledge. Who gives what product to whom? Do you know what technical assistance means? It's not BAE's product to design. Why should the Brits design and "give" 5th gen fighter to Turks? And that's for only " £100 Million" contract? Then all countries should just pay this meagre price and have their 5th gen jets. The British must either be very generous or very stupid?

 

[Vamsi]

You just say stuff completely out of your realm of knowledge. Who gives what product to whom? Do you know what technical assistance means? It's not BAE's product to design. Why should the Brits design and "give" 5th gen fighter to Turks? And that's for only " £100 Million" contract? Then all countries should just pay this meagre price and have their 5th gen jets. The British must either be very generous or very stupid?

So,you are saying that TAI (who doesn't even have a prior experience of designing a fighter jet on its own) has just designed a twin engined 5th gen bird entirely on it's own with just little help from BAE via this so called "Technical Assistance", right??

 

[Ajax01]

There are several AESA radar developments for aerial platforms. The first one is called MURAD and will be used by F16s and AKINCI and possibly by KIZILELMA. This radar will be delivered next month to BAYKAR to test on AKINCI drone and next year it will be integrated to F16. The features of it;

MURAD 1000+ GaN T/R

GaN T/R Module
PAE(Power Added Efficiency) : Rumors start from %37 and reach as high as %54
20W nominal 30W peak output power per module (20kW power-30kW peak power for radar plus several kW for accessories like LRUs etc.)
Multilayer LTCC packaging (Low-Temperature Co-fired Ceramic)
SIGE (Silicon-Germanium) multifunction BICMOS IC/Core Chip (either on 130 or 150nm/0.13-0.15μm)
GaN MMIC (likely on 150nm 0.15μm)
Digital beamforming+cognitive radar algorithms.
Specially designed ethylene glycol+water liquid cooling system with microchannels.

The radar for TFX is called BÜRFİS. It will be much larger than MURAD radar but we don't have much information about it.

@TheInsider from defencehub says it will have 2.000+ T/R GaN modules. The above specs of MURAD was shared by him also. He has sources in the industry.

I think your friend is just using a bunch of buzzwords. I don't think any OEM cliams to make a Cognitive Radar yet let alone a country that is making its first AESA. 30W per module for 1000+ modules seems to be very difficult to cool down in a F16's nose.

 

[rodeo]

So,you are saying that TAI (who doesn't even have a prior experience of designing a fighter jet on its own) has just designed a twin engined 5th gen bird entirely on it's own with just little help from BAE via this so called "Technical Assistance", right??

No because sub-contracting the development of a fifth-gen fighter to BAE for "£100 Million" is much more plausible right? Rings especially true when England doesn't have a similar product.

You could believe whatever you want. There are precursor to this fighter. Like Hürjet and Hürkuş. You could be surprised what dedication and perseverance could achieve when a nation's independence is in danger. It's sweat and blood. There are literally thousands of engineers working on this fighter jet.

It is what it is. I shared the BAE system's article about the contract. You go form your opinion in anyway you choose.

I wanna end this post with an example. Go to the thread "Turkish Drones Idle After Israeli Staff Leaves",

Turkish Drones Idle After Israeli Staff Leaves

Published: 14 Jun 2010 16:36 ANKARA - The six Israeli-made Heron UAVs stationed at an air base near Turkey's Iraqi and Iranian borders have ceased flying since Israeli operators left the base amid Turkish-Israeli tensions. The state-run Anatolia News Agency quoted Defense Minister Vecdi...

defenceforumindia.com

It's from a decade ago. See what people wrote about the humiliating situation we were in and how much has changed since then. Back then we were at the mercy of a small states like Israel for simple drones for counter-terrorism and they would just spit on our face. Today, actually this week, we're expecting our stealthy fighter drone to make its first flight. This progressed has just happened in a mere decade. Why? Because we were desperate and helpless. We knew we had to do it ourselves. And we did it. Today Israel's drone program can be nowhere near of ours. And that's the success of thousands of engineers' sleepless nights and days. It was not cheap. And these are some of their achievements in UAVs.

Today we are exporting these drones to 30+ countries. No one in the right mind would think that a decade ago. But here we are.

Normally I'm trying to stay clear of boasting and be more humble and just present the current info and photos but you're pushing my buttons with you illogical assumptions when the evident and common sense proves otherwise.

 

[rodeo]

I think your friend is just using a bunch of buzzwords. I don't think any OEM cliams to make a Cognitive Radar yet let alone a country that is making its first AESA. 30W per module for 1000+ modules seems to be very difficult to cool down in a F16's nose.

It has liquid cooled system designed by ASELSAN. F16 modernization program is called ÖZGÜR and within the program we're stripping out the avionics of the aircraft and replacing with our own. And AESA radar is one these subsystems. To learn more about it,

https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/0...ernizing-its-f-16-with-indigenous-technology/

To add: We already have GaN AESA radars in service. But MURAD radar will be the first aerial AESA we developed.

 

[rodeo]

Here's an article about the AESA radar published this month.

----

Aselsan's MURAD radar, which aims to compete with the US AN/APG-83 on the international market, will be integrated on the Akinci drone by early 2023.


Since 2019, Aselsan has been developing the new indigenous MURAD active electronically scanned array (AESA) fire control radar to integrate on the Turkish Air Force’s Akinci UAS, F-16 fighters and the TF-X/National Combat Aircraft (MMU).
The company foresees it will be able to compete with Northrop Grumman’s AN/APG-83 SABR agile beam radar on the international market.
A functioning MURAD prototype was showcased on 10 November in Ankara by the President of the Defense Industry Agency (SSB), Ismail Demir.
Speaking to Shephard, a Turkish source close to the matter who attended the event said the prototype system is not completed yet for the F-16 but that the variant for Akinci is almost ready, with full integration expected by the end of the year or early 2023, with flight trials next year.
The MURAD radar is said to be multifunctional and able to track multiple targets at once, as well as operate in air-to-air and air-to-ground roles. While information on its capabilities is limited, Aselsan has said it is integrated with domestic automatic target recognition software, anti-jamming equipment and electronic attack functions.
Similar to the US APG-83, it performs a search of designated locations through electronic scanning, allowing for more rapid and longer-range target detection and monitoring.
However, whereas the APG-83 features GaAs T/M modules, the Turkish radar has GaN based T/R modules, with a higher breakdown voltage compared to the US equipment, using less power and producing a lower heat output.
While the range of MURAD remains unconfirmed, if it is true that it can compete with SABR, it can be assumed that it could reach around 300-370km.
The source added that the Turkish AESA system will be ITAR-free, easing export global globally. The development of the radar further fits into the country’s rhetoric and objective to localise its defence industry to the maximum extent so as to no longer depend on foreign suppliers.

Turkey's MURAD radar to fly on Akinci drones by 2023 | Shephard

Aselsan's MURAD radar, which aims to compete with the US AN/APG-83 on the international market, will be integrated on the Akinci drone by early 2023.

www.shephardmedia.com

 

[blackjack]

Will the MURAD be capatible with the hurjet project?

 

[NocturnalOwl]

I admit I am impressed by the how many advances the Turkish industry made. I will appreciate that it definitely has come a long way and it's defense exports have grown a Lot. But I am assuming this is because most of the engineers prior worked with nato defense companies in developing their own subsystems, and the current Turkish companies brought that talent back to build their indigenous platforms. I believe Turkey has still a long way to go to completely indigenize everything because at the end of the day, the people who control the chips will win the war in my assessment. Right now Turkey will have difficulty selling to every other country in the world because some of the subsystems are still provided by foreign OEM (Please correct me If I am wrong).

 

[blackjack]

I wouldnt say working with NATO is why they are advanced. NATO for example doesnt have AFAIK anything similiar to mobile EW systems like KORAL or the Krasukha systems Russia has. Kalkan is a radar they will use for short range and medium range air defenses. Own air defenses like Hisar and Siper. drones alot of new projects but no idea if they resolved the engiens because I think I remember that Ukraine was to help them with the drone engine production. Also making their own stealth aircrafts by creating a radar chamber building. They are moving independently but less relaince would be alot better from foreign countries.

Either way I am happy that there are users from defense hub updating this forum with news and I hope they continue.

 

[Ajax01]

It has liquid cooled system designed by ASELSAN. F16 modernization program is called ÖZGÜR and within the program we're stripping out the avionics of the aircraft and replacing with our own. And AESA radar is one these subsystems. To learn more about it,

https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/0...ernizing-its-f-16-with-indigenous-technology/

To add: We already have GaN AESA radars in service. But MURAD radar will be the first aerial AESA we developed.

Well then can you post pics of GaN Low Power Amplifiers and the bands it operates in and other components manufactured in Turkey? Perseverance is no substitute for experience, it is understandable that many forum memebers are suspicious that a country that has till date not flown an indigenous Control Law for manned fighters is suddenly developing a 5th Gen's CLAW and what appears to be one of the best AESA in the world when other countries have tried (and failed several times before success) for years.

 

[jai jaganath]

There are several AESA radar developments for aerial platforms. The first one is called MURAD and will be used by F16s and AKINCI and possibly by KIZILELMA. This radar will be delivered next month to BAYKAR to test on AKINCI drone and next year it will be integrated to F16. The features of it;

MURAD 1000+ GaN T/R

GaN T/R Module
PAE(Power Added Efficiency) : Rumors start from %37 and reach as high as %54
20W nominal 30W peak output power per module (20kW power-30kW peak power for radar plus several kW for accessories like LRUs etc.)
Multilayer LTCC packaging (Low-Temperature Co-fired Ceramic)
SIGE (Silicon-Germanium) multifunction BICMOS IC/Core Chip (either on 130 or 150nm/0.13-0.15μm)
GaN MMIC (likely on 150nm 0.15μm)
Digital beamforming+cognitive radar algorithms.
Specially designed ethylene glycol+water liquid cooling system with microchannels.

The radar for TFX is called BÜRFİS. It will be much larger than MURAD radar but we don't have much information about it.

@TheInsider from defencehub says it will have 2.000+ T/R GaN modules. The above specs of MURAD was shared by him also. He has sources in the industry.

Wait wait
What am I reading
GaN, digital beam forming,cognitive algorithms along with liquid cooling system
Can u provide any brochure or source pls
These are very advanced tech in electronics and radar systems barely any nation mastered it or manufacturing it

 

[NutCracker]

Another video,


Look how large it is. She is gorgeous

Maybe camera angle , but for me it does feel like this might also end up with canards just like Chines J,-20

 

[rodeo]

Wait wait
What am I reading
GaN, digital beam forming,cognitive algorithms along with liquid cooling system
Can u provide any brochure or source pls
These are very advanced tech in electronics and radar systems barely any nation mastered it or manufacturing it

I cannot provide a brochure. It's not delivered yet. The best we can hope for is to wait for a month for the first delivery and see the technical specs then.

The things that are verified officially are that the radar will use GaN modules and it will be liquid cooled. The 1000+ module count is claimed by Turkish defence magazines who have sources in the industry. Here's an article mentioning the module count(in Turkish)

F-16 AESA Burun Radarı MURAD Tanıtıldı

ASELSAN tarafından geliştirilen ve hem F-16 (ÖZGÜR Projesi), hem de AKINCI TİHA’da kullanılması planlanan MURAD AESA Burun Radarı, 10 Kasım 2022 tarihinde şirketin Ankara Gölbaşı yerleşkesinde gerçekleştirilen bir etkinlikte görücüye çıkarıldı. Etkinlikte MURAD AESA radarının kamuoyuna ilk resmi...

www.defenceturkey.com

The GaN technology is a field we've been working on over a decade now. It's not a new development for us.

 

[rodeo]

Closer look from a different angle