TEDBF or ORCA Updates

[Echo1Charlie]

Are vai converting a land based a/c to naval a/c is not a good idea as the result is subpar...rafale was developed keeping the naval requirements in mind but mig29 wasnt hence the latter is a subpar naval a/c....its easy to say "convert amca for naval operations" but if u have been following Defense related news long enough (which u clearly haven't) then u would know such proposals has already been rejected due to the complexities involved and huge amounts of time required
Go watch the old ddr pd interviews and interviews with maolenkar sir if u want to know more

You're saying that AMCA (like many other 5th generation fighters underdevelopment) which has a strong resemblance to F-35 and J31, which were developed keeping the naval requirement in mind, can't be adopted for carrier borne operations??!

 

[Vamsi]

You're saying that AMCA (like many other 5th generation fighters underdevelopment) which has a strong resemblance to F-35 and J31, which were developed keeping the naval requirement in mind, can't be adopted for carrier borne operations??!

No....both the F-35 & J-31 are designed as Naval Fighters from scratch,but AMCA from its day1 is designed as AF fighter,hence converting it to Naval Fighter means there will be lot of compromises like in NLCA...just because they resemble externally same doesn't mean you can easily convert AMCA into N-AMCA

 

[flanker99]

You're saying that AMCA (like many other 5th generation fighters underdevelopment) which has a strong resemblance to F-35 and J31, which were developed keeping the naval requirement in mind, can't be adopted for carrier borne operations??!

Absolutely yes...naval operations just arnt about designs...a naval a/c has to endure much harsher conditions, much stronger forces,have to be more maintainable, durable ..then there are visibility issues,compatibility with the carrier etc ...it isnt just paint something in anti corrosive paint (which for a stealth a/c is a big challenge) and it becomes naval.
The knowledgeable people in navy /ada/drdo have talked about this and came to the conclusion that tedbf comes first

 

[Echo1Charlie]

The knowledgeable people in navy /ada/drdo have talked about this and came to the conclusion that tedbf comes first

OK, that's reasonable if they ever did discuss that. But again they could've pursued a fresh 5th generation design than copying Rafale M, as anyway we are pumping billion into it then why not go for a 5th Gen one?

Ps: I'm totally dissatisfied with the new design iteration, the older one was much better (looking).

 

[flanker99]

OK, that's reasonable if they ever did discuss that. But again they could've pursued a fresh 5th generation design than copying Rafale M, as anyway we are pumping billion into it then why not go for a 5th Gen one?

Ps: I'm totally dissatisfied with the new design iteration, the older one was much better (looking).

will take more than15 years and will cost much more navy wants the thing ready by 2035 possibly by 2031 to start replacing the migs asap

 

[Echo1Charlie]

will take more than15 years and will cost much more navy wants the thing ready by 2035 possibly by 2031 to start replacing the migs asap

No wonder why does it takes 15-20 years, ADA and HAL is yet to reach an agreement on design (like many other things!).

 

[flanker99]

No wonder why does it takes 15-20 years, ADA and HAL is yet to reach an agreement on design (like many other things!).

View attachment 194411

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15 years for a modern twin engine jet is on the low side of development time(world wide)....both ada,navy hal are on the same page when it comes to design in future AI's u will see much more refined designs ...this year i thnk they were just too lazy to show the newer model or the new design refinements in poster is very very recent

 

[abingdonboy]

Chill bro. That dude has no idea regarding the difference between ski jump and catapult. And Teddy's 2 f414s combined produces 17 KN more dry thrust and 46 KN more wet thrust than Rafale's 2*M88

It depends on empty weight also

 

[abingdonboy]

You're saying that AMCA (like many other 5th generation fighters underdevelopment) which has a strong resemblance to F-35 and J31, which were developed keeping the naval requirement in mind, can't be adopted for carrier borne operations??!

It’s absolutely possible that it’s not feasible

there’s a reason the IN decided to go for a clean sheet TEDBF design over N-AMCA

the MiG-29K has shown the folly of retroactively navalising a land based fighter. Unless it’s baked into the DNA of a fighter you’re likely going to run into issues long term

TEDBF will be no slouch, worst case scenario they’ll have to look into developing enclosed weapon pods for it but in terms of kinetimetics, sensors etc it’ll more than hold its own against the Chinese carrier fighters

what’s more important is making sure there are even ships for TEDBF to use. We are hearing about IAC-1b now but not even a contract exists for it and it’s clear the full spec IAC-2 65k beast is a thoroughly 2040s+++ project now.

So 1.5 carriers (Vikaramaditya is limping along) vs 5(?) PLAN CBGs as of now

 

[NutCracker]

It depends on empty weight also

you are correct empty weight will definitely be higher than Rafale due to bigger fuel tank and heavier engines.
But that's 17% extra dry thrust. I hope we are that efficient to not overshoot empty weight above 12T

 

[abingdonboy]

you are correct empty weight will definitely be higher than Rafale due to bigger fuel tank and heavier engines.
But that's 17% extra dry thrust. I hope we are that efficient to not overshoot empty weight above 12T

TWR of TEDBF will likely be marginally more than the Rafale but I would be surprised if it’s anywhere near a 10% improvement. The Rafale is the gold standard here when it comes to kinetic performance especially at low speeds

 

[NutCracker]

TWR of TEDBF will likely be marginally more than the Rafale but I would be surprised if it’s anywhere near a 10% improvement. The Rafale is the gold standard here when it comes to kinetic performance especially at low speeds

It surely is .. decades of perfection.

We have pictures of Rafale-M 's goa trials. Ittaking off from landbased ramp with 21T MTOW.

I wonder if AC is also steaming ahead at 30 knots, can it take off with 23-24T . Which will be near identical to Rafale-C MTOW.

 

[Super falcon]

TEBF HLFT TEJAS AMCA too much project HAL punching above its weights even Tejas not fully developed in 3 decades still development phase let alone these are just some art from HAL enthusiastic nothing more

 

[Anandhu Krishna]

TEBF HLFT TEJAS AMCA too much project HAL punching above its weights even Tejas not fully developed in 3 decades still development phase let alone these are just some art from HAL enthusiastic nothing more

TEDBF & AMCA are not HAL projects and Tejas development have been completed for a while and entered production.

 

[FalconSlayers]

TEBF HLFT TEJAS AMCA too much project HAL punching above its weights even Tejas not fully developed in 3 decades still development phase let alone these are just some art from HAL enthusiastic nothing more

Tejas not fully developed? MK1 is done and inducted with 40 ordered and more than half of them in service, MK1A doing its test flights, and 83 already ordered. MK2 under development and atleast half a dozen squadrons already committed.

And these projects are not being developed by HAL but by ADA and they’re very well capable of executing stuff. HLFT-42 is being developed by HAL since its very similar to the HF-24 Marut we built decades ago. More or less their project portfolio surely is big and it is an issue for maintaining timelines, I feel that its good for them to continue it that way. Since the CATS programme in entirety is being developed by HAL and an Indian Aerospace Startup called NewSpace Research and Technologies, ADA has no burden upon them to make these projects. And on top of that ADA alone isn’t building projects, multiple labs under DRDO work upon such projects simultaneously.

 

[Anandhu Krishna]

TEBF HLFT TEJAS AMCA too much project HAL punching above its weights even Tejas not fully developed in 3 decades still development phase let alone these are just some art from HAL enthusiastic nothing more

5 Tejas in UAE for Ex Desert Flag

 

[Super falcon]

5 Tejas in UAE for Ex Desert FlagView attachment 195254View attachment 195255

Sir I know about this but these Tejas are just for showcase Tejas mk 2 is in development which is the jet intend to be used as fighter jet in iaf mk 1 is not satisfied iaf yet

 

[jai jaganath]

Sir I know about this but these Tejas are just for showcase Tejas mk 2 is in development which is the jet intend to be used as fighter jet in iaf mk 1 is not satisfied iaf yet

83 on order
Further 50 under consideration
Rest 40 to be converted to mk1a post delivery of mk1a
But iaf not satisfied

 

[Gyyan]

Sir I know about this but these Tejas are just for showcase Tejas mk 2 is in development which is the jet intend to be used as fighter jet in iaf mk 1 is not satisfied iaf yet

That's why there is a Mk1A.
Also this is TEDBF Or ORCA thread

 

[Anandhu Krishna]

Sir I know about this but these Tejas are just for showcase Tejas mk 2 is in development which is the jet intend to be used as fighter jet in iaf mk 1 is not satisfied iaf yet

IAF already deployed Tejas at LoC. Ordered another 83 and plans to order even more but What ever gets you to sleep at night.