TEDBF or ORCA Updates

[Kchontha]

I think NLCA is TD as the Navy does not want a single engine fighter jet for carrier ops.
So making a NLCA Mk2 is a dead end.
TEDBF should be the prime focus for ADA.

Do you mean to say that ada will jump abruptly from nlca tech demonstrator to tedbf?!

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Do you mean to say that ada will jump abruptly from nlca tech demonstrator to tedbf?!

NLCA tech demo in Mk1 config is up and running with 4 prototypes already been made for the Navy.
They can be used as test-bed for integrating newer technologies which will eventually make their way into the TEDBF.
Now it is turn of TEDBF.

 

[Bleh]

If ADA develops both nlca mk 2 and tedbf simultaneously it will be good for Indian navy.

Nope. NLCA Mark2 officially cancelled.
After MWF is done, they will start working on extrapolating a 2 engined longer version of it... or of NLCA Mark2 (see previous page).

 

[IndianHawk]

Nope. NLCA Mark2 officially cancelled.
After MWF is done, they will start working on extrapolating a 2 engined longer version of it... or of NLCA Mark2 (see previous page).

Nlca mk2 has turned into tedbf. Navy forced Ada to do so. So preliminary design of tedbf is already going on. Mwf design is almost complete and metal cutting should start early next year. Leaving design team with only two projects amca and tedbf. Even amca design is close to freezing . So tedbf design will go in parallel . Hv thakur says first flight by 2027 for tedbf I believe him.

 

[Bleh]

Nlca mk2 has turned into tedbf. Navy forced Ada to do so. So preliminary design of tedbf

Disagree on this part... Twin Engined Deck Based Fighter's requirement was put forth by the Navy after they rejected the NLCA Mark2 due to several shortcomings of the single engine platform for sky-jump operations.

Official release of the preliminary proposal looked pretty clean sheet idea, very similar to a MWF on steroids.
Incase of either of the NLCA Mark2 designs morphing into TEDBF it would mean something like this, the concept arts I made, but that was not the case.

I've also requested @Kuntal to make 3D renders of this, if he choses to make TEDBF after MWF, instead of their crude renders.

 

[IndianHawk]

Disagree on this one... Twin Engined Deck Based Fighter visa requirement put forth by the Navy after they rejected the NLCA Mark2 door to several shortcomings of the single-engine platform.

Official release of the preliminary proposal looked pretty clean sheet idea, very similar to a MWF on steroids.
In NLCA Mark2 of two morphing in two TEDBF would mean something like this, the concept arts I made, but that was not the case.

I've also requested @Kuntal to make 3D renders of this, if he choses to make TEDBF after MWF.

What are you exactly disagreeing with? I said the same thing. Nlca mk2 program has converted into twin engine deck based fighter program. Still funded by navy still designed by Ada.

Yes there are design changes for optimization because of twin engien. You just don't place two engine in place of one ! Everything changes from weight to thrust to aerodynamics and hence necessity to optimize design . They are probably also including conformal fuel tanks.

 

[Kchontha]

Is tedbf going to have a foldable wing?

 

[Bleh]

Is tedbf going to have a foldable wing?

Well it is being designed on Navy's requirements.
As you understand, nothing specific is out yet.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Well it is being designed on Navy's requirements.
As you understand, nothing specific is out yet.

Is tedbf going to have a foldable wing?

Atleast the TEDBF CGI images shared by hvt had foldable wings.
It is too early too call

 

[Suryavanshi]

Is foldable delta wing even possible?
I have never seen it

 

[Bleh]

Atleast the TEDBF CGI images shared by hvt had foldable wings.
It is too early too call

Oh yeah. My bad. Forgot about that one! Lol
Based on that preliminary concept, and because this is basically a Navy originated project with the air force ORCA being just an offshoot of it, it is very likely that it will have foldable wings if IN think is it necessary

 

[IndianHawk]

Is tedbf going to have a foldable wing?

Yes very much. If it's as large as mig29k then only way it can fit in lifts of vikad/ vikrant is with folded wings.

Is foldable delta wing even possible?
I have never seen it

Both f18 and mig29k have them.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Both f18 and mig29k have them.

Those aren't delta wing like tejas.....

 

[IndianHawk]

Those aren't delta wing like tejas.....

Wings are wings . Delta or otherwise .

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

Is foldable delta wing even possible?
I have never seen it

tried searching for it
there is none

Those aren't delta wing like tejas.....

i checked
there are no delta with fold-able wings that entered service.

 

[IndianHawk]

tried searching for it
there is none

i checked
there are no delta with fold-able wings that entered service.

Cause only Delta naval jet is rafale m which fits into French carrier lift without needing wing folding.

Wings are attached to main fuselage. Delta or sweep wing both are build separately. Folding mechanism is only used while storing and lifting jet to carrier deck after which it is unfolded and returns to original shape . It has no effect of performance so as long folding/ unfolding mechanicsm is robust.

 

[Bleh]

tried searching for it
there is none

i checked
there are no delta with fold-able wings that entered service.

Because there no naval ET and Naval Rafale didn't need it being compact.

Anyways just a little bit from the tip is folded. Should not be too much different (not 100% sure).

ORCA design shows a seperately coloured (light grey) part from the wingtips that is folded.

 

[IndianHawk]

IAF’s fighter pilots, with several of them arguing that even a futuristic twin-engine LCA MK II will not match up to the Rafale in every domain. However, it now appears to be on a stable footing with complete government and corporate backing, and an excellent and committed team. A current LCA test pilot argues, “LCA now represents India in a big way – not just HAL anymore. LCA-bashing should get behind us, sooner than later.”

https://www.deccanherald.com/amp/op...oc-tape-819475.html?__twitter_impression=true

Cat is out of bag. Orca seems to be real now. Both tedbf and orca will go ahead it seems.

 

[Chain smoker]

IAF’s fighter pilots, with several of them arguing that even a futuristic twin-engine LCA MK II will not match up to the Rafale in every domain. However, it now appears to be on a stable footing with complete government and corporate backing, and an excellent and committed team. A current LCA test pilot argues, “LCA now represents India in a big way – not just HAL anymore. LCA-bashing should get behind us, sooner than later.”

https://www.deccanherald.com/amp/op...oc-tape-819475.html?__twitter_impression=true

Cat is out of bag. Orca seems to be real now. Both tedbf and orca will go ahead it seems.

How it can not match up to rafale in every domain. Technologies developed for AMCA will be fitted on it except active stealth it will be similar to rafale in avoinics and superior in TWR.

 

[IndianHawk]

How it can not match up to rafale in every domain. Technologies developed for AMCA will be fitted on it except active stealth it will be similar to rafale in avoinics and superior in TWR.

Refinement . Which comes with experience and time. Rafale is in works since 1986 and now a mature fighter. And France has tremendous experience in design and manufacturing of jets.

They are talking about Spectra type ew suite and ease of maintenance and quality of jets builds. Rafale is very optimise. Our industry might take some time to match these standards and practices.

But nothing to worry there . On some parameters it will be ahead of rafale too. Orca will have 200kn max thrust compared to 150kn of rafale. So it's performance will be in league of eurofighter typhoon . It will be able to supercruise with more load that rafale. And in air to air mission it's thrust to weight ratio will be excellent.

It will probably be faster than rafale. Giving more momentum to it's missiles.

But most importantly it will be all indian save for engine. It might match the payload of su30mki if designed correctly. And it will be very cheap given most of the components will be shared between mwf/tedbf/ amca and orca. It should have 90% + commonality with tedbf .