Surgical strikes inside Pak. Possibility?

[Compersion]

i really feel a pincer and surgical procedure is coming pakis ways. i want watch with fascination the noble peace prize egoistic misjudged behavior the pakis are pretending to exhibit by going to saudi and iran and telling them not to fight. i really think they have gone a little crazy thinking they have such high esteem of themselves simply because they have the nuke bomb and in their words "peaceful times" and PRC economic prostitution.

wonder which one will spit in their face and say how dare they have the guts and wisdom to tell them. and who are they. and why insult them by not picking sides. will they be going be threatening Iran by telling them to watch it LOL. they ought to have stayed at home and instead they going out and talking is the most funny stupid thing. and it means saudis have said something.

having the nuke bomb does not make one the messiah of the all of the islam and especially where the sunni and shia have different agendas. and no matter what they say to try and bring peace it will be a double edged sword from whoever and others. also iran will have observed how pakis doing business in afganistan. and saudi how pakis being chicken on not talking up saudi support and even supporting saudi more in many places (yemen, iran embassy and even military offence). saying pakis will defend if mecca is threatened mean they kicking the can down the road and trying to say they dont want to make a decision on what they are being asked. that even shows that does not identify with 100% support to saudi because right now in the view of saudi they are being threatened. also pakis might themselves want to take over saudi control and decision making. why leave it to these arabs who they think are dessert people only with oil that is sinking in price and value and importance. i would love it if the pakis tell the saudis to shut up and listen !! it is about time the pakis show saudis and arabs who is boss. they will also realise who the saudis (with many supporters and masks) and iran (with many supporters) really are. this along with UNSC dealing with North Korea (STILL NO WORD!!) what a circus -> and who is common between them.

 

[Spectre]

Instead of undertaking a dramatic surgical strike that will attract a lot of attention we can also retaliate in another way ,RAW can step up ops and create mistrust among various militant groups ,add flame to the fire ,also the inflow of fake Pakistani currency can be increased thus causing the deterioration of Pakistan's economic situation (I know I am going way off topic here ) however we must also remember that a stable Pakistan is better for us and thus limit the intensity of these operations.

This is a mere alternative to a surgical strike however I do not know the level to which these operations can be conducted

 

[sasum]

Instead of undertaking a dramatic surgical strike that will attract a lot of attention we can also retaliate in another way ,RAW can step up ops and create mistrust among various militant groups ,add flame to the fire ,also the inflow of fake Pakistani currency can be increased thus causing the deterioration of Pakistan's economic situation (I know I am going way off topic here ) however we must also remember that a stable Pakistan is better for us and thus limit the intensity of these operations.

This is a mere alternative to a surgical strike however I do not know the level to which these operations can be conducted

You seem to echo this opinion

 

[sasum]

Instead of undertaking a dramatic surgical strike that will attract a lot of attention we can also retaliate in another way ,RAW can step up ops and create mistrust among various militant groups ,add flame to the fire ,also the inflow of fake Pakistani currency can be increased thus causing the deterioration of Pakistan's economic situation (I know I am going way off topic here ) however we must also remember that a stable Pakistan is better for us and thus limit the intensity of these operations.

This is a mere alternative to a surgical strike however I do not know the level to which these operations can be conducted

You seem to echo this opinion

 

[no smoking]

As for the Indian ocean region, we don't see it from the point of view of exclusivity of access. We see it as an asset which we are willing to share in exchange for other strategic concessions. India has been trying to add another 250 miles to its exclusive economic zone since years, but the US kept refusing it and repeatedly conducted 'freedom of navigation' missions and invading that space, just like they are doing for the South China sea. We didn't raise an alarm because, firstly, we don't have the might to take on the US, secondly, we were willing to use it as a bargaining chip in the future. Just having large swathes of territory and controlling it militarily is no use if nations resort to exclusion as a response to exclusivity and refuse to trade with you....we signed a deal with Bangladesh to share access to that port so that even Indian ships can use it.

So, basically, what you are saying is you have no control of India Ocean because you can't take on the US. In other words, this asset doesn't belong to you but US actually. Then, there is no point to make a deal with you since you don't have the final say in any problem beyond your own border on the sea. That is why Chinese, Japanese and Korean looking at Americans when they are doing business there.

At a military level, controlling the Indian ocean and correspondingly defending it lies in the two choke points, one is strait of Malacca and another is strait of Hormuz. The fact remains that ever regional power has the capability to choke these. The only thing that stops them is the bilateral trade with India, and their multilateral trade with other south Asian nations that would be affected. As per game theory, they would be committing suicide, since it is in everyone's mutual interest to keep the trade flowing, especially considering the global slowdown which is causing joblessness, which might exacerbate riots in many nations, if trade is stopped.

First, on regional power outside India Ocean has the capability to choke these point. Neither Chinese, nor Japanese can even keep a large fleet over there for 3 months, not to mention to choke the point;
Second, India, even Iran has the capability to do so, but you can't do it without the permission of USA.

The simple fact is that US navy has the capability to stop any regional power to choke these points.

We don't want to dominate the Indian ocean region, we are willing to share access; We simply don't want anyone else to dominate the area and so we work with regional partners to ensure this status quo is maintained.

Oh, no, you definitely want to dominate this ocean. Remember, you were the first Asian nation to have the aircraft carrier after ww2? Certainly, these carriers were not aiming at pirates.

If it comes to just keeping foreign naval missile launch platforms away from our shores, we have achieved that capability already. We also have other pressure points (economic and diplomatic).

No, you don't. Your navy lacks the capability of anti-submarine as much as Chinese.
And why does foreign naval missile launch platforms need come to your shores? Any of P5 submarines is equipped with ballistic missile over 8000km or 1000km cruise missile, they don't need to come to your shores.

Take for example the recent Pathankot attack where our NSA cancelled his meeting with the Chinese NSA. This jeopardizes Chinese strategic calculations in the region because China is itching to buy temporary peace with India to engage with other, more pressing issues like the south China sea. So, we are willing to inflict retribution onto the backers of Pakistan if this continues. There is also a possibility of multinational military drills in addition to the Naval drills (US, India, Japan) that we already did.

Well, simply put this way: India is not significant player in Chinese strategic calculation outside India Ocean because India has no economic, political and military power to make a big difference outside India Ocean.

If Pakistan keeps needling us, we start needling China. If US sends military aid to Pakistan, we join the Russia-led alliance on Syria. As long as disagreeing with India entailed no adverse strategic implications, it was considered alright to tick off India. They will learn soon that there is a cost to pay if you disagree with us.

You know what, nobody care. You know why? Because you are not going to do much except lips work.
How are you going to needle China?
Aiding some Chinese enemy? Fine, please write a big cheque of billions dollars to them, EACH YEAR!
Joining Russia-led alliance on Syria? Fine, prepare billions of dollars budget for the potential operation there.
And the best part is: they wont' pay you back.

As for Pakistan, we have other ways of avenging the deaths of our people while keeping the conflict below the nuclear threshold. There is complete consolidation of public opinion in India vis-a-vis Pakistan. The political authority knows that there is popular support for retribution and they will handle it appropriately. Not every altercation turns nuclear.

Well, your political support is always there since 1947. Did it change anything?

 

[Sabru Foxtrot]

How the Indian Railways (WAG5 HA locomotive) and Indian army working together for us.

Watch the T90S main battle tank , ashok leyland truck, Maruti gypsy, mahindra jeep and many more in the wagon.

​

 

[Bahamut]

I will prefer intelligence doing some targeted killing like MOSSAD but these terrorist hit pak also .Let them fight with in them selves.Also a big strike means US might put some sanctions and EU will follow .China will also react with some bull shit and with the situation in west Asia and general the world being not good ,it better that we increase our intel base and we also have tribal area to make some trouble

 

[Screambowl]

I will prefer intelligence doing some targeted killing like MOSSAD but these terrorist hit pak also .Let them fight with in them selves.Also a big strike means US might put some sanctions and EU will follow .China will also react with some bull shit and with the situation in west Asia and general the world being not good ,it better that we increase our intel base and we also have tribal area to make some trouble

I have always coined for this but I am not sure if India is trying to solve it through diplomacy via US!

 

[OrangeFlorian]

I think it would be a good idea to put spies within our own military branch and the government in order to foil any sort of ISI infiltration

 

[Screambowl]

The fact and hard to digest is India cannot risk to do any surgical strikes inside Pak. There were many instances where Pak involvement was found out and our leadership kept talking to them.

This is why on the first page itself I said, hit them only through clandestine operations. That is the only possible way.

Why? Because India has spent Billions in diplomacy and to create such an image of Pak that now you cannot step back. Otherwise whole process will go into drains. And no government will do it. Because be it BJP or Cong. Both have chosen the similar path to deal with Pakis. And later if they change the approach one government will start blaming the other and the party may lose the elections due to Muslim votes.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

How India can execute a military strike in Pakistan
'The army can easily initiate retaliation for the Uri terror attack.'
'But escalation would be inevitable and unpredictable,' warns Ajai Shukla.

The strike by jihadi terrorists on Sunday on an army camp near Uri, in which 18 soldiers were killed and 29 injured, has inflamed tensions along the Line of Control.

On Tuesday, the army shot down eight Pakistani terrorists after intercepting a 15-strong group that was discovered infiltrating from Pakistan occupied Kashmir.

With public opinion and the media aroused, and with Prime Minister Narendra Modi vowing to punish those responsible; and the army's top operations officer declaring the military would retaliate at a time and place of its choosing, both sides of the LoC are bracing for what might come.

New Delhi has pinned the attack on the Lashkar-e-Tayiba, a militia controlled by the Inter-Services Intelligence, a wing of the Pakistani army.

Home Minister Rajnath Singh has declared Pakistan a 'terrorist State' and the Indian Army, already grappling with public turmoil in the Kashmir valley, is evaluating options to extract revenge for Uri.

Pakistan presents an easy target for an Indian diplomatic offensive against its terror-friendly ways, in Western capitals and multilateral forums. However, a calibrated military riposte would need more careful consideration.

Business Standard has discussed India's options with senior officers close to the planning process.

All of them agree that the army can easily initiate retaliation. But, thereafter, there would be two sides in the game.

Escalation would be both inevitable and unpredictable.

India's first option is to retaliate through fires (the effect of weapons) without Indian forces physically crossing the LoC.

This would involve 'fire assaults' on targets across the border, using artillery, missiles, and multi-barrel rocket launchers and Brahmos cruise missiles for deeper-lying targets.

A fire assault involves suddenly opening up intense fire with massed weapons on an unsuspecting and carefully chosen target, catching people in the open and inflicting heavy casualties.

Besides weapons, all trans-LoC retaliation would require reconnaissance assets, including satellites and unmanned aerial vehicles, to identify suitable targets and carry out battle damage assessment after a strike.

The battle damage assessment would determine whether the target had been adequately punished, or whether it needs to be struck again.

Depending upon Pakistan's response, fire assaults could be escalated through three stages -- first targeting terrorist infrastructure, then forward Pakistan army posts that facilitated infiltration and, finally, Pakistani headquarters and installations in the rear.

Each operational level would send a specific signal and require tailor-made diplomatic messaging to manage international opinion.

To absorb the inevitable retaliation, the Indian military would need to anticipate and plan appropriately.

In keeping with the theory of 'escalation dominance,' the military would seek to dominate each step of the escalation ladder.

This would discourage Pakistan from escalating the exchange.

The next level of escalation would involve physically moving troops -- first aircraft and then, if necessary, ground forces --- to attack across the LoC.

To manage the risks, India would signal a purely punitive intent, with no intention to actually hold ground across the LoC.

Naturally, aircraft and troops that cross the LoC carry the risk of being captured.

India's military would pre-position 'search and rescue' units, equipped with helicopters, to retrieve personnel shot down across the LoC.

The third level of escalation would involve the capture and occupation of territory across the LoC, such as vulnerable pockets where the border protrudes into India, or enclaves on the Indian side of a river or stream.

This would be a significant escalation and a violation of the Simla Agreement, which prohibits either side from changing the status quo.

Deeper attacks would require India to mobilise reserves, including fire support assets, as well as the air force.

Longstanding intelligence and military assessments indicate that any Indian capture of significant Pakistani territory would trigger a nuclear threat from that country.

The final level of escalation -- Indian offensive operations across the settled international boundary between India and Pakistan, the so-called Radcliffe Line -- would certainly violate the Pakistan army's nuclear threshold, eliciting a threat to use nuclear weapons.

Several Indian strategic planners insist a Pakistani threat would be a bluff. However, the diplomatic pressure on New Delhi would be intense, and it remains unlikely that India's leadership would successfully resist it.

Representative Image of a Sukhoi-30MKI in action. Kind courtesy: Alan Wilson/Wikimedia Commons

 

[rockey 71]

India needs to first establish whether these were Pakistanis or Kashmiris - from either side of LoC.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

India needs to first establish whether these were Pakistanis or Kashmiris - from either side of LoC.

It's already determined:
We have a substantial support from that side given

• that PoK comes nowhere near human developed indicators or income levels against J&K. For example, HDI of J&K stands around in order of 0.59 against 0.52 of pakistan.
• Indian J&K's people have fundamental rights and citizenship meanwhile pok's people are yet not recognized as pakistanis properly.
• J&K is connected and integrated with Indian Economy and contributes (and gets return a lot), pok was even inaccessible for pakistani people in Winter before China connected it. It's still isolated.

And the main thing, I don't know how do you define Kashmiris but right wingers (BJP and lot of DFIans) only determine indigenous people as Kashmiris. Ever read about history of Kashmir, separation is supported by Muslims mainly and they are originally foreigners.:biggrin2:

 

[porky_kicker]

why not do a reverse kargil ?

need not be in large scale ,
but we can go for capturing certain posts presently under porkistanis, and keep them permanently with us.
this way we can send a message that any future misadventure by porkistanis will result in them loosing real estate post by post.:biggrin2:

 

[Rushil51]

https://www.thequint.com/uri-attack...and-kashmir-pakistan-neutralise-20-terrorists

Major news coming in

Spl Forces crossed LoC and kill 20 Terrorists.

No confirmation on the authenticity of this news.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

https://www.thequint.com/uri-attack...and-kashmir-pakistan-neutralise-20-terrorists

Major news coming in

Spl Forces crossed LoC and kill 20 Terrorists.

No confirmation on the authenticity of this news.

Pakistani newspaper dawn has quoted some too.
@Bornubus @sorcerer any details or reliable source?

 

[Bornubus]

India needs to first establish whether these were Pakistanis or Kashmiris - from either side of LoC.

Kashmiri's are too pussy to be Fidayeen only Punjabi Musalman are Islamizied enough to blow kafirs that too in large number where there Madarsah churn out thousands of Jihadis every year.

Secondly one kashmiri Jihadi equal to 10000 Punjabi Musalman because kashmiri are precious to show to the world as native freedom movement.

 

[Rushil51]

Pakistani newspaper dawn has quoted some too.
@Bornubus @sorcerer any details or reliable source?

I hope it is true. Operations have been going around the LoC since yesterday. I hope Quint did not confuse killing of killing of terrorists around LoC with this.

 

[Rushil51]

I may have been wrong about operations around LoC.

 

[Bornubus]

Pakistani newspaper dawn has quoted some too.
@Bornubus @sorcerer any details or reliable source?

What is DAWN quoting ?

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