Surgical strikes inside Pak. Possibility?

Should India carry out surgical strikes in Pak after next big terrorist attack


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Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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Please use this thread to discuss about the chances of India carrying out cross border surgical strikes inside Pak.

Some important points to discuss:
- Under what circumstances and when should India do it? Another Parliament type attack etc.
- Would India be able to avert a full-blown war with Pak after such strikes?
- What defence capabilities does India need for successfully carrying out such strikes? And is India ready for it?
- Are surgical strikes a capable deterrent to terrorism related incidents?
- Or instead of surgical strikes Indian artillery should keep pounding the Pak positions for next month after a big terrorist attack?

The nature of such strike inside Pak would be much different than what we saw in the Burma this year. Probably India would use more fire power than sending elite commandos to completely finish off the terrorists.
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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Illusive

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Isn't Cold start doctrine the answer to this?
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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Isn't Cold start doctrine the answer to this?
Yes, Cold start was defined in the aftermath of failure to mobilize after the Parliament attack. But surgical strikes can be something less intense and carried out just by the airforce, rather than involving the army. Ofcourse, army would have to be on full alert under such a scenario.
 

FRYCRY

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Do we know the exact locations of terrorist camps in PoK, then what are we waiting for..
 

Illusive

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Yes, Cold start was defined in the aftermath of failure to mobilize after the Parliament attack. But surgical strikes can be something less intense and carried out just by the airforce, rather than involving the army. Ofcourse, army would have to be on full alert under such a scenario.
Wouldn't we have to neutralize their air defence first, also they wouldn't allow us to enter just like that, in an event like this, their airforce will be ready for interception. So why not cut to chase and just apply CSD in full effect.
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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Wouldn't we have to neutralize their air defence first, also they wouldn't allow us to enter just like that, in an event like this, their airforce will be ready for interception. So why not cut to chase and just apply CSD in full effect.
Given the Pak preparedness during the Laden's hunt by the US, shows that element of surprise can be used against the Pak. Given huge superiority of IAF over Pakis, I think it is possible to carry out huge damage against Paki assets in a very short time.
 

Illusive

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Given the Pak preparedness during the Laden's hunt by the US, shows that element of surprise can be used against the Pak. Given huge superiority of IAF over Pakis, I think it is possible to carry out huge damage against Paki assets in a very short time.
That was in the western part of the border, they had stealth copter, it was US, they can do jackshit even if they knew. Pak never anticipated any such attack. But in our case, they pretty much know before hand, since ours is a reactive approach not proactive.

I think sticking to CSD is much better since it itself doesn't give pak any breathing space and it will be a quick short war with achieving our objectives . Our response shouldn't be just to punish the perpetrators, but the supporters as well.
 

Nicky G

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What can these surgical strikes achieve that cannot be rebuilt? Such strikes make for good publicity but don't serve much real purpose when the state apparatus is creating these 'strategic assets'.

I'd much rather we mobilize forces quickly, CSD or whatever the latest doctrine is and capture some land that can be used a bargain for the Pakis to hand over these terrorists. This not only would help us get the direct perpetrators, but also shame the Pakis in front of the international establishment, well more than they already have been.

Most of all, I want to see the Paki nuke bluff called once and for all, well for the next few years anyway since nothing is ever permanent.
 

Screambowl

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Given the Pak preparedness during the Laden's hunt by the US, shows that element of surprise can be used against the Pak. Given huge superiority of IAF over Pakis, I think it is possible to carry out huge damage against Paki assets in a very short time.
I do not think, Paki Intelligence was unaware of this operation. Rather It looks like Pakistan intentionally allowed the black hawks to enter their airspace. And told world, they remain unaware.

If we know the location of these camps,we can use cruise missiles to destroy them. But I am still not in favor of direct confrontation with Pakistanis. Let there be camps , just increase the preventive capability in our Intelligence service.
 

jackprince

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^^ rather than surgical strike, we should plan for an assault to take back PoK and get our access back to Central Asia through GB. If we can get our access back to CA through GB, our one handicap will be gone and Pakis can be surrounded. Also, except the mountainous terrain of J&K, rest of our border with Pakis is fenced and have a population loyal to India. So, if we can take back PoK, if and when we have built up our military strength for that with a firm GoI at center, we would not only have stopped infiltration, we would have blocked a place for training of terrorists too. The terrorist camps are in PoK mostly, because it is far away from main Pakistani population centers. The new camps they will either have to open in their heartland Punjab or in relatively hostile Sindh or Balochistan, given FATA will be occupied completely by Talibans when Indian military op has forced Pakis to move troops from FATA to eastern border.
 

tsunami

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I think we can also add an option for voting as "No, we should go for CSD."

we can discuss CSD vs Surgical Strikes on the basis of possibilities, retaliation from Pakistan, Consequences world wide and the most important Objective of action.

Basically in my opinion CSD and Surgical Strikes both are possible.
CSD will be a bigger and will attract more attention.
On the other hand this question that can we do air strike in POK on terrorist camp without Pakistan predicting it. I believe yes we can do this. You just don't have to strike very next day some terrorist attack happen in India. You can wait for 2-3 months for things to get normal again. Then if IAF finish some dumbfucks in POK within an hour that won't see any action from Porkistan I guess.Remember Pakistani economy doesn't allow them to maintain full operational preparedness all the time.

Now retaliation from Pakistan, obviously CSD will face full retaliation. I believe there will be a full scale war. Also Pakistan might use NSAR missile nukes to counter CSD.
On the other hand IMO a Air Strikes will not see much retaliation from PAK. some 10 to 20 jaguars escorted by some 6-8 MKis will finish the job within 30-45 mins if Pakistan couldn't stop them doing this it's over. They will defiantly not go for war on India killing some goat fuckers.

rest I will finish in Part-2 now busy :p
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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I think we can also add an option for voting as "No, we should go for CSD."

we can discuss CSD vs Surgical Strikes on the basis of possibilities, retaliation from Pakistan, Consequences world wide and the most important Objective of action.

Basically in my opinion CSD and Surgical Strikes both are possible.
CSD will be a bigger and will attract more attention.
On the other hand this question that can we do air strike in POK on terrorist camp without Pakistan predicting it. I believe yes we can do this. You just don't have to strike very next day some terrorist attack happen in India. You can wait for 2-3 months for things to get normal again. Then if IAF finish some dumbfucks in POK within an hour that won't see any action from Porkistan I guess.Remember Pakistani economy doesn't allow them to maintain full operational preparedness all the time.

Now retaliation from Pakistan, obviously CSD will face full retaliation. I believe there will be a full scale war. Also Pakistan might use NSAR missile nukes to counter CSD.
On the other hand IMO a Air Strikes will not see much retaliation from PAK. some 10 to 20 jaguars escorted by some 6-8 MKis will finish the job within 30-45 mins if Pakistan couldn't stop them doing this it's over. They will defiantly not go for war on India killing some goat fuckers.

rest I will finish in Part-2 now busy :p
That is a very good point. I was thinking of something on similar lines.

Let things cool down for some time after terrorist attack and then send few aircrafts to kill some goat fu**ing retards. The probability of Pak going to war for destruction of few terrorist camps is low when compared to CSD.
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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^^ rather than surgical strike, we should plan for an assault to take back PoK and get our access back to Central Asia through GB. If we can get our access back to CA through GB, our one handicap will be gone and Pakis can be surrounded. Also, except the mountainous terrain of J&K, rest of our border with Pakis is fenced and have a population loyal to India. So, if we can take back PoK, if and when we have built up our military strength for that with a firm GoI at center, we would not only have stopped infiltration, we would have blocked a place for training of terrorists too. The terrorist camps are in PoK mostly, because it is far away from main Pakistani population centers. The new camps they will either have to open in their heartland Punjab or in relatively hostile Sindh or Balochistan, given FATA will be occupied completely by Talibans when Indian military op has forced Pakis to move troops from FATA to eastern border.
That is more proactive strategy. Here we are trying to find out something between doing nothing and CSD after a terrorist strike.
 

Screambowl

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That is more proactive strategy. Here we are trying to find out something between doing nothing and CSD after a terrorist strike.
B Raman said that our intelligence is good in managing the aftermath but weak in prevention. Why to give any chance to strike us?

Prevention itself is a part of that long strategy what @jackprince mentioned. In otherwords, covert offence, be it armed or political or diplomatic is the prevention.

1) Keep them busy countering us and our assets on their soil(civil war, Military interference, political clash, domestic violence)
2) Pressurize them through world opinion

In case they manage to strike us ( obviously they know the tricks too) our on going ops will take care of it as a retaliation.
 

jackprince

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That is more proactive strategy. Here we are trying to find out something between doing nothing and CSD after a terrorist strike.
Actually, what I am suggesting is what should be the goal, and it will fit well with CSD. We gain a lot if we get back PoK, and while Pakis may threaten with Nukes, we only have to leak a statement that if Pakis even move launcher, we will nuke Islamabad and Rawalpindi. That should stop any pro-active nuke action. Also, since we will not be occupying heartland Pakistan, they would have less support for bearing a nuke strike at their home.

Also, if we ever go for CSD,. cutting PoK from Pkaistan should be primary objective. Within a decade we would have enormous gain through access to CA.

China is a problem, and that is why we have build our military to a level that China would reluctant to be involved, and as soon as the op starts our diplomats should inform that China would have its own infra in GB intact.
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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B Raman said that our intelligence is good in managing the aftermath but weak in prevention. Why to give any chance to strike us?

Prevention itself is a part of that long strategy what @jackprince mentioned. In otherwords, covert offence, be it armed or political or diplomatic is the prevention.

1) Keep them busy countering us and our assets on their soil(civil war, Military interference, political clash, domestic violence)
2) Pressurize them through world opinion

In case they manage to strike us ( obviously they know the tricks too) our on going ops will take care of it as a retaliation.
Yes, may be what you said makes sense. But we also need to evolve another strategy if Indian politicians do not have a pro-active inclination, which seems to be the case till now.
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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Actually, what I am suggesting is what should be the goal, and it will fit well with CSD. We gain a lot if we get back PoK, and while Pakis may threaten with Nukes, we only have to leak a statement that if Pakis even move launcher, we will nuke Islamabad and Rawalpindi. That should stop any pro-active nuke action. Also, since we will not be occupying heartland Pakistan, they would have less support for bearing a nuke strike at their home.

Also, if we ever go for CSD,. cutting PoK from Pkaistan should be primary objective. Within a decade we would have enormous gain through access to CA.

China is a problem, and that is why we have build our military to a level that China would reluctant to be involved, and as soon as the op starts our diplomats should inform that China would have its own infra in GB intact.
Do you really expect any GoI in the near future to change its stand? We already discussed it that successive GoI have more or less given on PoK and would jump on the first opportunity to declare it as international boundary if Pak agrees.
 

Screambowl

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Yes, may be what you said makes sense. But we also need to evolve another strategy if Indian politicians do not have a pro-active inclination, which seems to be the case till now.
That's true, but in that case, you need to give more freedom to intelligence , specially IB. NCTC is the solution for this. But then state level politicians are against this. The argument is, centre will be the boss in state affairs. At a point they are also correct. There has to be middle solution for this.
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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That's true, but in that case, you need to give more freedom to intelligence , specially IB. NCTC is the solution for this. But then state level politicians are against this. The argument is, centre will be the boss in state affairs. At a point they are also correct. There has to be middle solution for this.
We are talking more about how to build reputation for India that acts of terror would not go unpunished. Something on the lines of what Israel does everyday. And then the question arises- can India do something to punish the perpetrators of the crime?

It is something on the lines of what BSF is doing in response to ceasefire violations.
 

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