Sukhoi PAK FA

[StealthFlanker]

Pirate is dual band at 3-5 micron and 8-10 micron
OLS is 3-5 micron and 8-12 micron

Actually you are correct in this part , i mistaken these system with something else ,they are indeed working in both Mid and Long infrared wavelength , however , no evidence suggest that they are QWIP , at all

NIIP has said that they have archived 2-3 times increase in detection range ,

Here is what the deputy designer said

Viktor Sumerin, NII PP deputy general designer: “New OLS is much more effective. Two-three times only by range. Old OLS didn’t have TV channel, so it means no picture at all - no TV, no IR. That’s why some of the functions just was impossible to implement

The 2-3 times detection range was in comparison to S-31E2 KOLS ( system on Mig-29 ) not OLS-35 ( the one on Su-35S ), as you can see that he specifically mentioned that there was no TV channel on old IRST system

so it about 60-70 km for a subsonic aircraft from the front in clouded condition

No in cloudly weather , you would be lucky to be able to look further than 5-10 km using any thermal system , here is the official information

New OLS is intelligence system of technical vision to work in realtime of fast combat environment. In air combat complex allows:
- detect not-afterburning target on the 45km range and more;
- identify this target on 8-10km range;
- estimate aerial target range up to 15 km

So basically it can detect target on military power from 45 km in clear weather ( aspect not specify ) , LRF effective range is 15 km , that is not impress at all if you ask me

.Such figure can only be achieved with QWIP .

No, there is nothing that only QWIP can achieve that others system cant , you can always get a bigger aperture if you want longer range.

@StealthFlanker I am really amazed by your discussion with @Bahamut Do you work in Aircraft Industry. You seems to work in Designer bureau

Not quite, i only got a BEng in avionic systems but i dont like to appeal to authority when arguing.

 

[Bahamut]

Actually you are correct in this part , i mistaken these system with something else ,they are indeed working in both Mid and Long infrared wavelength , however , no evidence suggest that they are QWIP , at all

Well if it had been HgCdTe then it would have been complete-10 micron but it is 3-5 and then 8- 10 ,a dual band sensitivity ,tell any other system except for QWIP which show such behavior

you can always get a bigger aperture if you want longer range.

But the aperture is the same for OLS UEM and S-31KLOS so there is a change in technology

So you want to cover the entire fuselage with several IRST sensors

Yes similar to how radar arrays are there in AWACS

aperture around 2.7 meters in diameter

No even if the aperture diameter is 1 m it will boast the performance
Also there will better cooling of sensor so they will be more effient

DAS isnt a long range systems really

I just wanted to give a idea about the placement of the sensor

 

[Bahamut]

Not quite, i only got a BEng in avionic systems but i dont like to appeal to authority when arguing.

Sir had had doubt that how would AESR Radar with LPI perform aginst DFRM jammer

 

[AbhinavTheBrahmin]

This Should Help Our AMCA TEJAS MK1A MK2

 

[StealthFlanker]

Well if it had been HgCdTe then it would have been complete-10 micron but it is 3-5 and then 8- 10 ,a dual band sensitivity ,tell any other system except for QWIP which show such behavior

Not really , both QWIP and HgCdTe ( MTC ) can work within 3-10 microns range , it is just their efficiency is different , and the operating spectrum also depending on the outer lens as well.
And when you really think about it the transmission of 6-7 microns infrared wave throughout the atmosphere is just terrible

What likely to be used on those sensor are InSb and HgCdTe (MCT)

But the aperture is the same for OLS UEM and S-31KLOS so there is a change in technology

Firstly ,the size of the image sensor and the size of the lens are not the same thing
Secondly , just because there is a improvement but that doesnt mean it use QWIP
There are load of thing sthat can improve a thermal system performance : cooled vs non cooled , increase detector density , ..etc

Yes similar to how radar arrays are there in AWACS

Radar provide range , velocity , heading , altitude of targets, what IRST provide ? angular direction, and scan rate of an ESA is much much faster than any IRST

No even if the aperture diameter is 1 m it will boast the performance .Also there will better cooling of sensor so they will be more effient

You still got problem as mentioned earlier

I just wanted to give a idea about the placement of the sensor

But that the point , DAS is a short range system , so it can have a wide FoV , puting various massive IRST on an AWACs airframe is simply incredibly inefficient

 

[StealthFlanker]

Sir had had doubt that how would AESR Radar with LPI perform aginst DFRM jammer

There are 2 class of jamming in general :
The first one is noise jamming : Noise jamming is the form of electronic countermeasure where jammer transmit an interference signal ( white noise) in enemy’s radar direction so that the aircraft reflection is completely submerged by interference.This type of jamming is also called ‘denial jamming’ or ‘obscuration jamming’. The primary advantage of noise jamming is that only minimal details about the enemy equipment need be known. This class of jamming is rather simple and can be used not only as self protection but also support ( cover )jamming , disadvantages is that it often require much higher jamming power than deceptive jamming

The second class of jamming is deceptive jamming : Deception jammers carry receiving devices on board in order to analyze the radar’ transmission and then send back false target-like signals in order to confuse the radar.This is in contrast to noise type of jamming,whose objective is to obscure the real signal by injecting a suitable level of noise-like interference into the victim system.Techniques like “noise jamming” are useful for taking a radar installation out of commission, but more sophisticated deception jamming can make the enemy think their radar is still working when it is actually reporting incorrect target range and velocity information With deception jamming, an exact knowledge of not only the enemy radar’s frequency, but all other transmission parameters is required. Deceptive jamming, in a way , is spot or point jamming of a more intelligent nature, HoJ mode of missiles are often less effective again deception jamming because missiles often do not know they are being jammed ( It important to note that , if jamming is detected then HoJ can still be used ).

In recent years capability of radar deceptive jamming has been enhanced significantly with the development of Digital Radio Frequency Memory (DRFM) techniques .Jammers with DRFM technology are widely reported in literature , for example ALQ-187(v)2 , ALQ-131 EA PUP , Falcon edge , ALQ-211(V)9 , ALQ-214(V)3 , Spectra , ASQ-239.DRFM is a technology in which a high-speed sampling digital memory is used for storage and recreation of radio frequency signals.The most significant aspect of DRFM is that as a digital “duplicate” of the received signal, it is coherent with the source of the received signal. As opposed to analog ‘memory loops’, there is no signal degradation caused by continuously cycling the energy through a front-end amplifier which allows for greater range errors for reactive jamming and allows for predictive jamming.
.Deceptive jamming require much less transmitting power and often less vulnerable to HoJ , however ,unlike noise jamming , radar can counter deceptive jamming by various method such as frequency hopping , PRF jittering , pulse compression or leading edge tracking ..etc ( more sophisticated jamming method will require more sophisticated ECCM method ).

AESA radars often have very low side lobes level , random scan pattern , wide bandwidth( benefit pulse compression ) , couple that with frequency hoping and PRF jittering , they are very resistance to deceptive jamming ( whether that system has DRFM or not )

 

[gadeshi]

PAK-FA Weapons Capabilities

1 - PAK FA will have new variant of GSh-301 - GSh-301M Balerinka (young ballet dancer) called so for its lite weight 30kg instead of 45kg of original GSh-301. Also Balerinka survives 6K rounds instead of 2.5K.

2 - R-73RMD-2 will not be used on production planes - this is obsoleted. It will be R-74M2 (Izdeliye/Item-860) with 3-blade TVC (instead of 4 blade on R-73) and bispectral matrix warhead with LOAL capability.
Also the wings and stablilators of R-74M2 are 15cm shorter each to make it possible to be packed into FSBs.

3 - The main WWR weapon for T-50 will be completely new SRAAM K-300 (VKS index unknown) which is unified with Tor-M2 SAM missile and externally much resembles AIM-132 ASRAAM:

4 - FSBs (Fast Side Bays in the wing roots) cannot contain R-77-1 (Item-177 MRAAMs), K-300 and R-74M2 SRAAMs only.
5 - Kh-35U is not compatible to MWBs because of its size.
6 - Forget about Item-180 (R-77M) missile pics with grid-shaped stabilators. It has conventional short wing and stabilizers like AIM-120 AMRAAM (2 latter profiles):

7 - R-37 (Item 610) has never been attended to use with T-50 (it doesn't fit with MWBs even with stabilators folded) but Item 810 (VKS insex unknown) is:

8 - Kh-31 has never been attended to use with T-50 MWBs but Kh-58UShK is. All the other variants of Kh-58 (U/A) are obsoleted.
9 - VKS will never use 3M-55A Onyx-A (not talking about its export versions like 3M-55E Yakhont or 3M55EI BrahMos) - there are more appropriate planes for such a big rod.
10 - Many other factage flaws and journalisms detected.

 

[Chinmoy]

1 - PAK FA will have new variant of GSh-301 - GSh-301M Balerinka (young ballet dancer) called so for its lite weight 30kg instead of 45kg of original GSh-301. Also Balerinka survives 6K rounds instead of 2.5K.

2 - R-73RMD-2 will not be used on production planes - this is obsoleted. It will be R-74M2 (Izdeliye/Item-860) with 3-blade TVC (instead of 4 blade on R-73) and bispectral matrix warhead with LOAL capability.
Also the wings and stablilators of R-74M2 are 15cm shorter each to make it possible to be packed into FSBs.

3 - The main WWR weapon for T-50 will be completely new SRAAM K-300 (VKS index unknown) which is unified with Tor-M2 SAM missile and externally much resembles AIM-132 ASRAAM:

4 - FSBs (Fast Side Bays in the wing roots) cannot contain R-77-1 (Item-177 MRAAMs), K-300 and R-74M2 SRAAMs only.
5 - Kh-35U is not compatible to MWBs because of its size.
6 - Forget about Item-180 (R-77M) missile pics with grid-shaped stabilators. It has conventional short wing and stabilizers like AIM-120 AMRAAM (2 latter profiles):

7 - R-37 (Item 610) has never been attended to use with T-50 (it doesn't fit with MWBs even with stabilators folded) but Item 810 (VKS insex unknown) is:

8 - Kh-31 has never been attended to use with T-50 MWBs but Kh-58UShK is. All the other variants of Kh-58 (U/A) are obsoleted.
9 - VKS will never use 3M-55A Onyx-A (not talking about its export versions like 3M-55E Yakhont or 3M55EI BrahMos) - there are more appropriate planes for such a big rod.
10 - Many other factage flaws and journalisms detected.

If possible, post some pics of GSH-301M

 

[gadeshi]

Cockpit
АК ФА / Т-50-4 борт №054 перед вылетом из Комсомольска-на-Амуре в Раменское, 15.01.2013 г. (фото – пресс-служба ОАО “Сухой”, http://ria.ru). PAK-FA / T-50-4 board №054 before departure from Komsomolsk-on-Amur in Ramenskoye, 15/1/2013 (photo – the press-service of JSC “Sukhoi”, http://ria.ru).

The T-50 has a glass cockpit with two 38 cm (15 in) main multi-functional LCD displays similar to the arrangement of the Su-35S. Positioned around the cockpit are three smaller control panel displays. The cockpit has a wide-angle (30° by 22°) head-up display (HUD), and Moscow-based Geofizika-NV provides a new NSTsI-V helmet-mounted sight and display for the ZSh-10 helmet.

Large wide-angle (30° by 22°) head-up display (HUD)

Система индикации на лобовое стекло Т-50 и моделирование изображения ИЛС на компьютерном симуляторе кабины Т-50 в КБ Сухого, г.Москва, 01.03.2010 г. (ТВ-кадры, http://rutube.ru). Display System on the windshield of T-50 and ILS simulation image on a computer simulator cockpit T-50 Sukhoi, Moscow, 01.03.2010 (TV footage, http://rutube.ru)

NSTsI-V helmet-mounted sight and display
Primary controls are the joystick and a pair of throttles.The aircraft uses a two-piece canopy, with the aft section sliding forward and locking into place. The canopy is treated with special coatings to increase the aircraft’s stealth.

The T-50 employs the NPP Zvezda K-36D-5 ejection seat and the SOZhE-50 life support system, which comprises the anti-g and oxygen generating system. The 30 kg (66 lb) oxygen generating system will provide the pilot with unlimited oxygen supply. The life support system will enable pilots to perform 9-g maneuvers for up to 30 seconds at a time, and the new VKK-17 partial pressure suit will allow safe ejection at altitudes of up to 23 km.

Ejection seat K-36D
Pilot dressed in a suit PPK-7 helmet IMS-10 with mask KM-36M on the seat F-36D-5 and next to the oxygen system KS-50 / Source: mycity-military.com
Scientific Manufacturing Company Zvezda announced the completion of the tests the state of new life-support systems designed for remote control of the 5th generation fighter T-50 PAK FA.

CEO and chief engineer of the company at the same time, Sergei S. Pozdniakow, at a press conference at the United Aircraft Corporation (OAK) announced the completion of the testing phase of the main elements of life support system remote control, designed for fighter Sukhoi T-50 PAK FA.

It includes:

Multifunctional protective helmet IMS-10; (ZSh-10)
oxygen mask KM-36M;
G-suit PPK-7;
pressure suit JCC-17; (VKK -17)
oxygen system KS-50;
ejection seat K-36D-5.

Helmet IMS-10 (ZSh-10) with mask KM-36M / Source: mycity-military.comPAK FA flight suit @paralay.net
These facilities helps to keep alive the pilot even in situations where at an altitude of 20,000 meters will decompress the cockpit of the aircraft. The new helmet is also 350 grams lighter than currently used in the Russian Air Force (VVS) @nowastrategia.org.pl

You've forgot 101KS-P bispectral wide angle instrumental flight pilot augmentor.

 

[gadeshi]

If possible, post some pics of GSH-301M

Already done it after cannon test videos.

 

[Chinmoy]

Already done it after cannon test videos.

I mean the whole lot of the gun pic...............

 

[gadeshi]

And, BTW, there are no info about 101KS EO DAS at all!!!
This system has No 2 importance after the radar.

 

[gadeshi]

T-50-1 (1-01) participates in weapons tests in Akhtubinsk weapons and tactics testing center:

 

[WolfPack86]

Indo-Russian Fifth Generation Fighter R & D Negotiations Resolved: IAF Chief

The negotiations for the Research and Development design contract with Russia for the Indian "perspective multi-role fighter", a variant of the Russian single-seat FGFA called Sukhoi T-50 or PAK-FA has been resolved, Indian Air Force (IAF) chief Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha said.
“The tortuous negotiations holding up the Indo-Russian Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) have been resolved,” Raha was quoted as saying by Business Standard Wednesday.
“The two sides are believed to have agreed on a $4-billion “R&D Contract” that could see HAL and Sukhoi co-develop and build up to 250 FGFAs for the IAF,” he added. “[Earlier, the IAF] found gaps in information on transfer of technology; how they (Sukhoi) have achieved these 5th generation technologies, and in visibility of the total cost. So these issues were flagged… and now a lot of clarity has come on these issues. Hopefully things will be decided sooner rather than later on the FGFA,” Raha said.
The final R&D contract for the FGFA was on hold till now despite the two countries having first inked an inter-governmental agreement in 2007 and then following it up with a $295 million preliminary design contract in 2010.
Earlier reports had said New Delhi had proposed that instead of commencing the detailed project report (DPR), India would pay for three prototypes and transfer of technology (TOT) instead of US$6 billion for the DPR and joint production.
It is not clear if India wants to use the prototypes and TOT to set up its own production line in India.
The FGFA, also called T-50, is the most advanced aircraft to be built in Russia. It combines stealth technology with super-maneuverability enabling it to penetrate deep into enemy territory and conduct bombing as well as dogfight with enemy planes.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/10/indo-russian-fifth-generation-fighter-r.html

 

[gadeshi]

T-50-5R (1-05R) on the front view:

 

[Prashant12]

Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft Agreement with India could be signed by year end: Russia

With military deals worth about Rs 60,000 crore signed and sealed with India in Goa, Russia is hopeful that another big ticket agreement on Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft will be inked by year-end. “The agreement had been completed on our end, we are ready to sign it. It is now down to the Indian side. “There are some formalities to figure out, but I think it will be signed by the end of this year,” Sergei Chemezov, CEO of Rostec State Corporation, a Russian umbrella organisation of 700 hi-tech civilian and military firms, said.

After a hiatus of nearly a year, India and Russia had in February revived talks on the much delayed FGFA project after a clearance from Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar. Since then, a lot of issues related to work share, IPR and technology transfer among others have been sorted out between the two sides along with the monetary commitments. Under the new offer, India will have to pay about USD 3.7 billion, instead of USD 6 billion, for the technological know-how and three prototypes of the fighters, defence sources have said.

In 2010, India had agreed to pay USD 295 million towards the preliminary design of the fighter, called in India as Perspective Multi-role Fighter (PMF). “The FGFA project will produce a state of the art fighter jet, and it will be the result of the work on Russia’s most modern technology done by both Russian and Indian engineers and constructors,” Chemezov said.

“As a Fifth Generation, it means fifth generation speed, ballistics and military equipment, avionics and stealth capabilities among other qualities,” he said. “It shall be on a par with the capabilities of Russia’s PAK-FA T-50 aircraft, a Fifth-Generation fighter but as it will be designed in the next few years, it is likely to exceed it in some specifics. “Our technology is always developing,” the Russia’s top efence industry official said.

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...t-agreement-to-be-signed-by-year-end-3085988/

 

[Zebra]

Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft Agreement with India could be signed by year end: Russia

With military deals worth about Rs 60,000 crore signed and sealed with India in Goa, Russia is hopeful that another big ticket agreement on Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft will be inked by year-end. “The agreement had been completed on our end, we are ready to sign it. It is now down to the Indian side. “There are some formalities to figure out, but I think it will be signed by the end of this year,” Sergei Chemezov, CEO of Rostec State Corporation, a Russian umbrella organisation of 700 hi-tech civilian and military firms, said.

After a hiatus of nearly a year, India and Russia had in February revived talks on the much delayed FGFA project after a clearance from Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar. Since then, a lot of issues related to work share, IPR and technology transfer among others have been sorted out between the two sides along with the monetary commitments. Under the new offer, India will have to pay about USD 3.7 billion, instead of USD 6 billion, for the technological know-how and three prototypes of the fighters, defence sources have said.

In 2010, India had agreed to pay USD 295 million towards the preliminary design of the fighter, called in India as Perspective Multi-role Fighter (PMF). “The FGFA project will produce a state of the art fighter jet, and it will be the result of the work on Russia’s most modern technology done by both Russian and Indian engineers and constructors,” Chemezov said.

“As a Fifth Generation, it means fifth generation speed, ballistics and military equipment, avionics and stealth capabilities among other qualities,” he said. “It shall be on a par with the capabilities of Russia’s PAK-FA T-50 aircraft, a Fifth-Generation fighter but as it will be designed in the next few years, it is likely to exceed it in some specifics. “Our technology is always developing,” the Russia’s top efence industry official said.

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...t-agreement-to-be-signed-by-year-end-3085988/

It will be a disaster for Indian defence.

Lets have a look...............

How Indian defence got fucked..........?

Corrupt Indian politicians and defence people allowed Russians to use India as their ATM machine.

They kept paying money to Russians in the name of "joint development projects".

Out of it, 50% money came back to India as corruption.

Remaining, Russians use to convert their projects in to products, for foreign customers, including India.

To maintain that corrupt cycle, Indian politicians and defence people never allowed Indian defence industrial complex get it developed.

If you wants proper defence industry in India, then stop funding Russian defence projects.

Stop that cycle, stop that modus operandi.

Unfortunately, that is not happening, even in Modi administration.

If IAF really wants PAK-FA , then they can buy it as a buyer too.

Let Russians develop it first as per our requirements.

No need pay $4 billion as development costs.

At the end of the day that is taxpayer's money.

How the hell GoI can justify that expanse in front of people specially when they can buy it without spending that $4 billion.......!

 

[Scarface]

It will be a disaster for Indian defence.

Lets have a look...............

How Indian defence got fucked..........?

Corrupt Indian politicians and defence people allowed Russians to use India as their ATM machine.

They kept paying money to Russians in the name of "joint development projects".

Out of it, 50% money came back to India as corruption.

Remaining, Russians use to convert their projects in to products, for foreign customers, including India.

To maintain that corrupt cycle, Indian politicians and defence people never allowed Indian defence industrial complex get it developed.

If you wants proper defence industry in India, then stop funding Russian defence projects.

Stop that cycle, stop that modus operandi.

Unfortunately, that is not happening, even in Modi administration.

If IAF really wants PAK-FA , then they can buy it as a buyer too.

Let Russians develop it first as per our requirements.

No need pay $4 billion as development costs.

At the end of the day that is taxpayer's money.

How the hell GoI can justify that expanse in front of people specially when they can buy it without spending that $4 billion.......!

Probably the technology transfer the Russians are promising,some old sources said we'll be getting quite literally full ToT from the Russians for 4Bil$ but I think that's far from the truth.
IAF isn't very happy with it IIRC.

 

[Zebra]

Probably the technology transfer the Russians are promising,some old sources said we'll be getting quite literally full ToT from the Russians for 4Bil$ but I think that's far from the truth.
IAF isn't very happy with it IIRC.

Sound like kehta bhi dewana aur sunta bhi dewana.

BTW, Cost of ToT, that is one of the biggest tool to hide corruption in Indian defence.

 

[Bahamut]

It will be a disaster for Indian defence.

Lets have a look...............

How Indian defence got fucked..........?

Corrupt Indian politicians and defence people allowed Russians to use India as their ATM machine.

They kept paying money to Russians in the name of "joint development projects".

Out of it, 50% money came back to India as corruption.

Remaining, Russians use to convert their projects in to products, for foreign customers, including India.

To maintain that corrupt cycle, Indian politicians and defence people never allowed Indian defence industrial complex get it developed.

If you wants proper defence industry in India, then stop funding Russian defence projects.

Stop that cycle, stop that modus operandi.

Unfortunately, that is not happening, even in Modi administration.

If IAF really wants PAK-FA , then they can buy it as a buyer too.

Let Russians develop it first as per our requirements.

No need pay $4 billion as development costs.

At the end of the day that is taxpayer's money.

How the hell GoI can justify that expanse in front of people specially when they can buy it without spending that $4 billion.......!

Sir our version of PAKFA will have Indian component like navigation system, data link, Indian and Israel weapons, this will require us to have IPR also we will get technology like GaN etc, similar to Su 30 MKI, Bhramos and Rafale. Also we can change the avionics easily.