Sukhoi PAK FA

[airtel]

It will be a disaster for Indian defence.

Lets have a look...............

How Indian defence got fucked..........?

Corrupt Indian politicians and defence people allowed Russians to use India as their ATM machine.

They kept paying money to Russians in the name of "joint development projects".

Out of it, 50% money came back to India as corruption.

Remaining, Russians use to convert their projects in to products, for foreign customers, including India.

To maintain that corrupt cycle, Indian politicians and defence people never allowed Indian defence industrial complex get it developed.

If you wants proper defence industry in India, then stop funding Russian defence projects.

Stop that cycle, stop that modus operandi.

Unfortunately, that is not happening, even in Modi administration.

If IAF really wants PAK-FA , then they can buy it as a buyer too.

Let Russians develop it first as per our requirements.

No need pay $4 billion as development costs.

At the end of the day that is taxpayer's money.

How the hell GoI can justify that expanse in front of people specially when they can buy it without spending that $4 billion.......!

Russia bought shares of essar oil & invested 15 billion $ ....................what is that ? good for India or not ??

 

[airtel]

It will be a disaster for Indian defence.

Lets have a look...............

How Indian defence got fucked..........?

Corrupt Indian politicians and defence people allowed Russians to use India as their ATM machine.

They kept paying money to Russians in the name of "joint development projects".

Out of it, 50% money came back to India as corruption.

Remaining, Russians use to convert their projects in to products, for foreign customers, including India.

To maintain that corrupt cycle, Indian politicians and defence people never allowed Indian defence industrial complex get it developed.

If you wants proper defence industry in India, then stop funding Russian defence projects.

Stop that cycle, stop that modus operandi.

Unfortunately, that is not happening, even in Modi administration.

If IAF really wants PAK-FA , then they can buy it as a buyer too.

Let Russians develop it first as per our requirements.

No need pay $4 billion as development costs.

At the end of the day that is taxpayer's money.

How the hell GoI can justify that expanse in front of people specially when they can buy it without spending that $4 billion.......!

only Russia & USA have 5th generation Air superiority Fighters , USA will not sell F-22 to any other country.................that means we can only buy Russian jets .
Pak-fa is developed in which we invested just 300 million $ as a development cost .
IAF wants twin pilot version this will require Aerodynamic changes & then all type of testing (like RCS ,wind tunnel etc )..........in PAk-FA Engine-fans are visible ..........and I think those mistakes should be rectified and there will be some other modifications too .

we will get IPR & we will Include some Indian , french & Israeli avionics too & weapons .

all these modifications require money ..................and at present only India is a confirm customer .

check the Rafael deal we Paid more Money (about 2 billion $ ) for India specific modifications .


I am sure other customers will also pay development cost if they buy these jets ..........................check the F-35 deal ....................almost all the NATO countries & American allies paid development cost & except Israel non of them can modify those jets , they can not be repaired outside USA ..............& non of them have any TOT .

 

[rohit b3]

It will be a disaster for Indian defence.

Lets have a look...............

How Indian defence got fucked..........?

Corrupt Indian politicians and defence people allowed Russians to use India as their ATM machine.

They kept paying money to Russians in the name of "joint development projects".

Out of it, 50% money came back to India as corruption.

Remaining, Russians use to convert their projects in to products, for foreign customers, including India.

To maintain that corrupt cycle, Indian politicians and defence people never allowed Indian defence industrial complex get it developed.

If you wants proper defence industry in India, then stop funding Russian defence projects.

Stop that cycle, stop that modus operandi.

Unfortunately, that is not happening, even in Modi administration.

If IAF really wants PAK-FA , then they can buy it as a buyer too.

Let Russians develop it first as per our requirements.

No need pay $4 billion as development costs.

At the end of the day that is taxpayer's money.

How the hell GoI can justify that expanse in front of people specially when they can buy it without spending that $4 billion.......!

This is funny. You want IAF to buy it as a buyer, but not work on a different variant? I guess the bribes come quicker with off shelf purchases.

The FGFA project will take 8 years to materialize. Common sense tells me that with 8 years of work,it will be pretty much different from the T-50 prototype.
If Indian negotiations succeeded , it should have a fair proportion of Indian design and electronics. However that is yet to find out as the work share isnt announced yet.
It will be Made by HAL.
If the older agreements still exist, it would also be exported with India and Russia sharing the profits 50-50, similar to BrahMos.

 

[Zebra]

Sir our version of PAKFA will have Indian component like navigation system, data link, Indian and Israel weapons, this will require us to have IPR also we will get technology like GaN etc, similar to Su 30 MKI, Bhramos and Rafale. Also we can change the avionics easily.

Su-30 MKI - they gets in the form of kits, only assembly work get done in India.

Bhramos - even one of our mod made it clear on DFI, that India still struggling to get ToT for it.

Rafale - ever French provide any ToT yet.....! I never heard it though.

For that bold part, Russians developed it totally. Now after it still you think Indian defence ever get that freedom to fit Indian parts on it.

When I write these, even not a single IAF guy got permission to test PAKFA yet.

 

[Zebra]

only Russia & USA have 5th generation Air superiority Fighters , USA will not sell F-22 to any other country.................that means we can only buy Russian jets .
Pak-fa is developed in which we invested just 300 million $ as a development cost .
IAF wants twin pilot version this will require Aerodynamic changes & then all type of testing (like RCS ,wind tunnel etc )..........in PAk-FA Engine-fans are visible ..........and I think those mistakes should be rectified and there will be some other modifications too .

we will get IPR & we will Include some Indian , french & Israeli avionics too & weapons .

all these modifications require money ..................and at present only India is a confirm customer .

check the Rafael deal we Paid more Money (about 2 billion $ ) for India specific modifications .


I am sure other customers will also pay development cost if they buy these jets ..........................check the F-35 deal ....................almost all the NATO countries & American allies paid development cost & except Israel non of them can modify those jets , they can not be repaired outside USA ..............& non of them have any TOT .

Sir, its 50% wali item, nothing else.

 

[Zebra]

Russia bought shares of essar oil & invested 15 billion $ ....................what is that ? good for India or not ??

That has nothing to do with Indian defence.

 

[Zebra]

This is funny. You want IAF to buy it as a buyer, but not work on a different variant? I guess the bribes come quicker with off shelf purchases.

The FGFA project will take 8 years to materialize. Common sense tells me that with 8 years of work, it will be pretty much different from the T-50 prototype.
If Indian negotiations succeeded , it should have a fair proportion of Indian design and electronics. However that is yet to find out as the work share isnt announced yet.
It will be Made by HAL.
If the older agreements still exist, it would also be exported with India and Russia sharing the profits 50-50, similar to BrahMos.

All these just to fool people.

Only 15% work share for Indians. That too after paying $4 billions.

Rest almost all aircrafts been developed by Russians only.

 

[airtel]

All these just to fool people.

Only 15% work share for Indians. That too after paying $4 billions.

Rest almost all aircrafts been developed by Russians only.

Sir, its 50% wali item, nothing else.

i dont think we did even 15% work in PAK-FA ...................PAk-FA is a 100% Russian product . we invested only 300 million$ in Pak-fa .

we invested 3 Billion $ in FGFA which is a different plane (based on pak-fa ) and in which we will do some work , FGFA is still on Paper .

 

[rohit b3]

All these just to fool people.

Only 15% work share for Indians. That too after paying $4 billions.

Rest almost all aircrafts been developed by Russians only.

We dont know that yet. Let the official word on India's workshare come out.

 

[Bahamut]

Su-30 MKI - they gets in the form of kits, only assembly work get done in India.

Sir components that cannot be made in India are only made from kits ,things like engine technology which have been absorbed are being build in India by Indian components.

Bhramos - even one of our mod made it clear on DFI, that India still struggling to get ToT for it.

Can you tell which is that component ,is it the engine or seeker.
From what I knew of the Bhramos contract ,there was deal some componets will be made by Russia and some by India.There was not ToT ,it was a joint venture.Just like Britain does not made all parts of Euro fighter,we donot make all parts of Bhramos but PakFa deal has a substantial ToT contract.

Rafale - ever French provide any ToT yet.....! I never heard it though.

France will help the Kaveri engine program, there is a 3$billion return to Indian industry

 

[airtel]

Su-30 MKI - they gets in the form of kits, only assembly work get done in India.

no , out Of the 43,000 components that go into a Su-30MKI, 31,500 components - or 73 per cent - are now being built in India......including AL-31FP engines .

http://www.business-standard.com/ar...-hal-s-growing-capability-114102300636_1.html

and the following are the components developed by Indian agencies:

• Mission Computer cum Display Processor - MC-486 and DP-30MK (Defence Avionics Research Establishment - DARE)
• Radar Computer - RC1 and RC2 (DARE)
• Tarang Mk2 Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) + High Accuracy Direction Finding Module (HADF) (DARE
• IFF-1410A - Identification Friend or Foe (IFF)
• Integrated Communication suite INCOM 1210A (HAL)
• Radar Altimeter - RAM-1701 (HAL)
• Programmable Signal Processor (PSP) - (LRDE)
• Multi Function Displays (MFD) - Samtel/DARE

Rafale - ever French provide any ToT yet.....! I never heard it though.

in the past , we never signed the deal of TOT with french .

according to Tejas MRCA page (most of the information is reliable ).......................France will invest 1 billion euro to develop kaveri engines .

they will provide 3-d thrust vectoring TOT of meteor missiles which will be used to improve astra .

and they will provide TOT of RBE2 AESA radars .

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Russia bought shares of essar oil & invested 15 billion $ ....................what is that ? good for India or not ??

Yes, would make easier to import oil abd gas. India and Russia are working on a $25 billions gas pipeline project. Further, India is also going to invest in different sectors in Russia, primarily, a good presence in Crimea.

 

[Superdefender]

Sergie Chemejov: "FGFA shall be on par with T-50 PAK-FA; but as it will be designed in the next few years, FGFA likely to exceed PAK-FA in some specifics."

 

[Zebra]

i dont think we did even 15% work in PAK-FA ...................PAk-FA is a 100% Russian product . we invested only 300 million$ in Pak-fa .

we invested 3 Billion $ in FGFA which is a different plane (based on pak-fa ) and in which we will do some work , FGFA is still on Paper .

India only can have 15% work share on future Russian 5th gen aircraft.

 

[Zebra]

We dont know that yet. Let the official word on India's workshare come out.

Don't lie, sir..........................................................

 

[Zebra]

Sir components that cannot be made in India are only made from kits ,things like engine technology which have been absorbed are being build in India by Indian components.

Can you tell which is that component ,is it the engine or seeker.
From what I knew of the Bhramos contract ,there was deal some componets will be made by Russia and some by India.There was not ToT ,it was a joint venture.Just like Britain does not made all parts of Euro fighter,we donot make all parts of Bhramos but PakFa deal has a substantial ToT contract.

France will help the Kaveri engine program, there is a 3$billion return to Indian industry

Duplicate, a cope of original Russian / Soviet product.

Just like Akash SAM, isn't it....!

 

[Zebra]

no , out Of the 43,000 components that go into a Su-30MKI, 31,500 components - or 73 per cent - are now being built in India......including AL-31FP engines .

http://www.business-standard.com/ar...-hal-s-growing-capability-114102300636_1.html

and the following are the components developed by Indian agencies:

• Mission Computer cum Display Processor - MC-486 and DP-30MK (Defence Avionics Research Establishment - DARE)
• Radar Computer - RC1 and RC2 (DARE)
• Tarang Mk2 Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) + High Accuracy Direction Finding Module (HADF) (DARE
• IFF-1410A - Identification Friend or Foe (IFF)
• Integrated Communication suite INCOM 1210A (HAL)
• Radar Altimeter - RAM-1701 (HAL)
• Programmable Signal Processor (PSP) - (LRDE)
• Multi Function Displays (MFD) - Samtel/DARE

in the past , we never signed the deal of TOT with french .

according to Tejas MRCA page (most of the information is reliable ).......................France will invest 1 billion euro to develop kaveri engines .

they will provide 3-d thrust vectoring TOT of meteor missiles which will be used to improve astra .

and they will provide TOT of RBE2 AESA radars .

The list you write here looks like only Avionics stuff.

Nothing for airframe , fuselage ........!

And I doubt, super duper claim of engine manufacturing.

Till few months back they used to send Su-30 engines to Russia.

Now all of sudden they realised that they are actually making those engines in India.......?

For French ToT................... everything on carrot-and-stick.

But they never gave it in past.

 

[Scarface]

no , out Of the 43,000 components that go into a Su-30MKI, 31,500 components - or 73 per cent - are now being built in India......including AL-31FP engines .

http://www.business-standard.com/ar...-hal-s-growing-capability-114102300636_1.html

and the following are the components developed by Indian agencies:

• Mission Computer cum Display Processor - MC-486 and DP-30MK (Defence Avionics Research Establishment - DARE)
• Radar Computer - RC1 and RC2 (DARE)
• Tarang Mk2 Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) + High Accuracy Direction Finding Module (HADF) (DARE
• IFF-1410A - Identification Friend or Foe (IFF)
• Integrated Communication suite INCOM 1210A (HAL)
• Radar Altimeter - RAM-1701 (HAL)
• Programmable Signal Processor (PSP) - (LRDE)
• Multi Function Displays (MFD) - Samtel/DARE

in the past , we never signed the deal of TOT with french .

according to Tejas MRCA page (most of the information is reliable ).......................France will invest 1 billion euro to develop kaveri engines .

they will provide 3-d thrust vectoring TOT of meteor missiles which will be used to improve astra .

and they will provide TOT of RBE2 AESA radars .

Facebook page's pipe dreams

Kaveri engine part is true though.

only Russia & USA have 5th generation Air superiority Fighters , USA will not sell F-22 to any other country.................that means we can only buy Russian jets .
Pak-fa is developed in which we invested just 300 million $ as a development cost .
IAF wants twin pilot version this will require Aerodynamic changes & then all type of testing (like RCS ,wind tunnel etc )..........in PAk-FA Engine-fans are visible ..........and I think those mistakes should be rectified and there will be some other modifications too .

we will get IPR & we will Include some Indian , french & Israeli avionics too & weapons .

all these modifications require money ..................and at present only India is a confirm customer .

check the Rafael deal we Paid more Money (about 2 billion $ ) for India specific modifications .


I am sure other customers will also pay development cost if they buy these jets ..........................check the F-35 deal ....................almost all the NATO countries & American allies paid development cost & except Israel non of them can modify those jets , they can not be repaired outside USA ..............& non of them have any TOT .

Not true, I can disprove your no ToT claims right off the bat.

http://www.janes.com/article/56554/us-approves-f-35-offset-technology-transfer-to-south-korea

"
South Korea's Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) said on 9 December that approvals for 21 technology suites have been granted by the United States following negotiations that continued through November.

The technologies form a central part of the defence offset programme attached to Lockheed Martin's sale of F-35 Lightning II fighter aircraft to the Republic of Korea Air Force. Seoul agreed to purchase 40 F-35s in September 2014 for around USD7 billion.

The technologies to be transferred under offset linked to the F-35 purchase will be channelled into the KFX programme."

The ToT received from the US is actually helping indigenous effort in SK, instead of what alarmists like to claim, that the foreign purchase will kill the indigenous fighter.

And this is South Korea,it was not a member of the JSF program,neither did they chip in during development

Australia and Japan are maintenance providers in the Pacific region , it can be repaired out of the US.

http://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/603831

We're getting off topic but I just had to pitch this in

 

[Bahamut]

Duplicate, a cope of original Russian / Soviet product.

Just like Akash SAM, isn't it....!

Give me facts , how it is a copy ?

 

[Zebra]

Give me facts , how it is a copy ?

Does Russians / Soviets have their products, similar to Bhramos and Akash ..........?