Sukhoi PAK FA

[Armand2REP]

You were also quick to point out that the Virgilius was Russian and was obsolete when it is even more up to date than the Spectra is.

I never mentioned Virgilius nor would I bother comparing an Italian helicopter defence aid to obsolete Russian ECM. It is a fool's errand comparing a helo EW to Spectra. It is two different classes.

 

[sukhish]

It is abundantly clear Russia's avionics industry is in shambles looking for its identity. It isn't able to meet the demands of 5th gen avionics to equip the PAK FA. They have put all their eggs in one basket for the future of their fighter industry. They went on a mad-hunt for partners on this project: Brasil, France and India to name them. Brasil is likely going with Rafale as well as France developing it and going into stealth UCAVs. They approached France to equip Thales avionics but transferring such technology isn't possible in NATO. The only one to bite was India. After much debate and assurance, GoI finally cut them a check for $147.5 million. This installment isn't free of scrutiny. Technocrats are closely observing progress of PAK FA development, especially its avionics. At the same time, India has selected France to infuse them with the 5th generation avionics the PAK FA lacks. It is effectively India's back-up plan in case Russia falls on its face as usual. When it does, France will be there to pick up the pieces and replace them.

Armand,
why do you think we are buying rafale. rafale has the best cockpit among it's peers. some of that will go to our FGFA.

 

[Armand2REP]

Armand,
why do you think we are buying rafale. rafale has the best cockpit among it's peers. some of that will go to our FGFA.

India wants the technology of the aircraft, which is mostly the specialty of Thales in demand. Samtel has taken several Thales products and installed them on Indian aircraft. This is not where cooperation with Thales will end, it is only the begging. With a $20 billion deal with 50% offsets, Thales will form JVs that will dominate the Indian market from all other foreign competition. Russian makers are markedly absent from India for obvious reasons. These reasons also apply to the future of PAK FA. It is actually better for Russia to fail as India will be able to market our Franco-Indian JV products to Russia which we couldn't due with NATO objections. Its the only way PAK FA can get the technology for completion.

 

[p2prada]

Nice article, I especial find the part about the pak-fa being 'slightly worse' than the SU-35 amusing. The scrutiny of the pak-fa's avionics is also illogical when no factual data is available.

It is good to know there are critics behind the Iron Curtain.

As for India selecting France to 'infuse' the pak-fa, you have a source? The French contribution to the MKI is minor, what did France provide, the Litening pod, navigation, and LCD's which India wants to replace. The core avionics of the MKI is still Russian/Indian. There is no need to worry about Russia falling on its face when France still struggles to make a real good radar. The RBE2 is good but it falls on its face compared to the Irbis-E. It's no wonder why French aircraft have performed miserably in BVR combat even against less than stellar aircraft such as the Harrier.

France only provided the Totem GPS based INS. GPS systems are something Russia does not produce and hence have no competing product. The HUD, MFDs, Litening Pod are Israeli. ECM is Russian/Israeli.

 

[p2prada]

I never mentioned Virgilius nor would I bother comparing an Italian helicopter defence aid to obsolete Russian ECM. It is a fool's errand comparing a helo EW to Spectra. It is two different classes.

Nonsense. You said the Mig-35 has wholly obsolete Russian EW.

I pointed out that the EW on Mig-35 is the Virgilius which is not Russian. So, now you show a tendency to lie.

Now you come up with BS like it is a helo EW when it is not.

:: ELT ::

ELT/568(V)2

ELT/568(V)2 (Italy) - Jane's Radar And Electronic Warfare Systems

Russian makers are markedly absent from India for obvious reasons. These reasons also apply to the future of PAK FA. It is actually better for Russia to fail as India will be able to market our Franco-Indian JV products to Russia which we couldn't due with NATO objections. Its the only way PAK FA can get the technology for completion.

I don't think you know that Russia is currently involved in 200 different projects with India.

 

[Armand2REP]

I never mentioned the MiG-35s ECM. Just proves you only hear what you want to hear.

 

[ptldM3]

India wants the technology of the aircraft, which is mostly the specialty of Thales in demand. Samtel has taken several Thales products and installed them on Indian aircraft. This is not where cooperation with Thales will end, it is only the begging. With a $20 billion deal with 50% offsets, Thales will form JVs that will dominate the Indian market from all other foreign competition. Russian makers are markedly absent from India for obvious reasons. These reasons also apply to the future of PAK FA. It is actually better for Russia to fail as India will be able to market our Franco-Indian JV products to Russia which we couldn't due with NATO objections. Its the only way PAK FA can get the technology for completion.

I believe Samtel MFD's have been cleared for the MKI's, so either they will be installed in MKI's or they already have been. I also have heard that Samtel made the MFD's all by themselves and not with any JV from France, but Correct me if i'm wrong. The pak-fa will also be using a Glasnost navigation system, so the future of Totem is unclear.

The recent SU-30 upgrades, the SU-34, and the SU-35 has brought many new technologies that can be incorporated or enhanced/evolved when the pak-fa/fg-fa come into service. Indian avionics suppliers have also been making headway and appear to be making products good enough to replace some of the 'western' ones found in the MKI.

To me it seems like the pak-fa/fg-fa will use less 'western' avionics' than the MKI.

 

[Armand2REP]

Paris, Jun 19 (PTI) Samtel Display Systems today inked a pact with European defence electronics major Thales to set up a joint venture to develop sophisticated cockpit displays for military aircraft for the Indian and export markets...Thales is a leader in such products and there were certain elements missing in our technology that we can achieve through such a tie-up. The deal will help reduce development time for new products.

news.outlookindia.com | Samtel signs pact with Thales to develop defence avionics

So... guess not.

 

[p2prada]

I never mentioned the MiG-35s ECM. Just proves you only hear what you want to hear.

If you keep up with events, it is not a mystery. Russia's only AESA radar proved totally inept during Indian trials. ECM suite was stated as being wholly obsolete and not even comparable to Western systems.

You show a tendency to lie and now show that you are really bad at it too.

I am stating the obvious here.

 

[p2prada]

To me it seems like the pak-fa/fg-fa will use less 'western' avionics' than the MKI.

We will see little or none on the Super MKI itself.

 

[Armand2REP]

You show a tendency to lie and now show that you are really bad at it too.

I am stating the obvious here.

I was talking about the Su-35 as cited in the source. It was a two part statement. Reading comprehension got you a little low today?

 

[p2prada]

I was talking about the Su-35 as cited in the source. It was a two part statement. Reading comprehension got you a little low today?

The Irbis is twice as effective as the Bars. India won't complain about 400Km range as inadequate and nor will IAF complain about power. Su-35 has never set foot in India, let alone for trials. The Su-35's EW kit will be going on the MKI. There is not a single official source in India which has commented on any of Su-35's technical details ever in the last 20 years. Don't kid around Armand. Every post here will make you look like a clown. We can simply end it here and forget about it.

Let's not forget the Malaysians chose the Su-35s Russian EW over French. I guess there is no need for heartburn here. Russian kit is as good as any western kit wherever core technologies are concerned. No idiot on a forum is going to change this fact by just repeating falsehoods a hundred times.

 

[Armand2REP]

The only one wearing a colour wig and red nose is you. Ignoring Chief of VVS and RMAF... that is a joke. Going on and on about a statement I never made = another joke. MiG-35 isn't even an airplane, it is three MiG-29 tech demonstrators that don't have an ECM, with the loss of MMRCA probably never will. Su-35 has common architecture to the PAK FA is the reason I brought up its ECM dilemma. Whether you like it or not, the problem exists and covering your ears humming Bollywood tunes isn't going to change that fact or the collapse of Russia's electronics industry. It isn't going to change the fact that French avionics make up 10-12% the value of Su-30s sold when total avionics only account for 25% the value of the plane. French is nearly half and that doesn't include other foreign manufacturers. Lets not forget Malaysia cancelled the Russian EW.. ignoring it doesn't make it go away.

 

[p2prada]

The only one wearing a colour wig and red nose is you. Ignoring Chief of VVS and RMAF... that is a joke. Going on and on about a statement I never made = another joke. MiG-35 isn't even an airplane, it is three MiG-29 tech demonstrators that don't have an ECM, with the loss of MMRCA probably never will. Su-35 has common architecture to the PAK FA is the reason I brought up its ECM dilemma. Whether you like it or not, the problem exists and covering your ears humming Bollywood tunes isn't going to change that fact or the collapse of Russia's electronics industry. It isn't going to change the fact that French avionics make up 10-12% the value of Su-30s sold when total avionics only account for 25% the value of the plane. French is nearly half and that doesn't include other foreign manufacturers. Lets not forget Malaysia cancelled the Russian EW.. ignoring it doesn't make it go away.

I ignore a lot of things even IAF chiefs say. US chiefs are worse.

The rest of your post, I will merely ignore.

 

[p2prada]

4th T-50 fighter jet to go on test flight: Voice of Russia

The fourth of Russia's state-of-the-art fifth-generation Sukhoi T-50 fighter jets will make its test flight this year, Head of Russia's United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) Mikhail Pogosyan announced on Wednesday.

The third PAK FA T-50 jet has already performed over 120 test flights.

Deliveries of the initial batch of T-50 aircrafts will kick off in 2013. "Everything is going according to plan," Mr. Pogosyan assured the press-conference.

 

[p2prada]

PAKFA will not be participating in the Korean FX-3 fighter program according to Pravda. Supposedly because the F-35 is more mature while the PAKFA's export variant does not even exist as of today. More importantly, the Russians want to keep the PAKFA's development cycle secret. According to Russia, Korea has already decided on a F-35 purchase. Seems the other aircraft are merely participating.

It seems the stealth technology achieved on the F-35 via the use of small copper rings is quite impressive as compared to Russia's conventional methods.

Other competitors are F-15SE, Rafale, EF, F-35 and Gripen. I wonder if the Russians will bring the Su-35 instead. The last time it was just a prototype. The Koreans have reduced VLO as a requirement to allow other aircraft to participate. So, the winner is a no brainer, F-35 all the way.

For people who don't know a lot about the PAKFA program. Limited Serial production is expected to begin this year, quite like our LCA LSP models. These prototypes will be used for weapons tests starting in 2013. 10 are going to be inducted in the Russian Air force by end 2013. As already posted, the 4th prototype is expected to make it's maiden flight soon.

@ptldM3,
I think VVS is supposed to take deliveries of the 12-16 Su-30s this year. How is that progressing?

 

[venkat]

India wants the technology of the aircraft, which is mostly the specialty of Thales in demand. Samtel has taken several Thales products and installed them on Indian aircraft. This is not where cooperation with Thales will end, it is only the begging. With a $20 billion deal with 50% offsets, Thales will form JVs that will dominate the Indian market from all other foreign competition. Russian makers are markedly absent from India for obvious reasons. These reasons also apply to the future of PAK FA. It is actually better for Russia to fail as India will be able to market our Franco-Indian JV products to Russia which we couldn't due with NATO objections. Its the only way PAK FA can get the technology for completion.

Armanad!!! is it beginning or begging? Hope its a typo!!!

 

[ptldM3]

The only one wearing a colour wig and red nose is you. Ignoring Chief of VVS and RMAF... that is a joke. Going on and on about a statement I never made = another joke. MiG-35 isn't even an airplane, it is three MiG-29 tech demonstrators that don't have an ECM, with the loss of MMRCA probably never will. Su-35 has common architecture to the PAK FA is the reason I brought up its ECM dilemma. Whether you like it or not, the problem exists and covering your ears humming Bollywood tunes isn't going to change that fact or the collapse of Russia's electronics industry. It isn't going to change the fact that French avionics make up 10-12% the value of Su-30s sold when total avionics only account for 25% the value of the plane. French is nearly half and that doesn't include other foreign manufacturers. Lets not forget Malaysia cancelled the Russian EW.. ignoring it doesn't make it go away.

So what about ignoring Dassault? They basically said that their own radars are garbage.

 

[Drsomnath999]

India wants the technology of the aircraft, which is mostly the specialty of Thales in demand. Samtel has taken several Thales products and installed them on Indian aircraft. This is not where cooperation with Thales will end, it is only the begging. With a $20 billion deal with 50% offsets, Thales will form JVs that will dominate the Indian market from all other foreign competition. Russian makers are markedly absent from India for obvious reasons. These reasons also apply to the future of PAK FA. It is actually better for Russia to fail as India will be able to market our Franco-Indian JV products to Russia which we couldn't due with NATO objections. Its the only way PAK FA can get the technology for completion.

too much pride is not right u should be grateful to india that we chose rafale for MMRCA but no ,that u r accusing of begging .Bad very bad .
I think u r suffering from serious inferiority complex against non french weapons .Remember Rafale would never be a 5th gen fighter like Pakfa

 

[Sridhar]

Putin inspects PAK-FA, unveils $768 billion defense spending
Putin inspects PAK-FA, unveils $768 billion defense spending | idrw.org