Sukhoi PAK FA

p2prada

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The defencive systems on Su-35 are inferior to Western samples and are stalling development.
Again. More nonsense without much research.



The SAP 518 are defensive pods.



SAP 14 standoff jammer. It is in the AL/Q 99 arena. France does not have an equivalent.

Su-34 with the SAP 14 and 518.



It will be a standard fit on the MKI and is part of the upgrade package. Reports suggest SAP 518 has already been inducted in IAF.

We have IAF officers saying the MRCA delays have been disappointing. IAF wanted the MRCA deal to bring in state of the art fighters. But due to delays the MKI will end up being better than any of the MRCA contenders. Let's face it. No matter how much you moan about it, the Russians are at a level of their own.

Oh! I completely forgot. Guess what. Malaysia had the option between choosing the French PAJ FA and the Russian SAP-518. Guess what they chose? The SAP-518.
 

Armand2REP

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Again. More nonsense without much research.
You can ignore Chief of the VVS? :rofl:

Oh! I completely forgot. Guess what. Malaysia had the option between choosing the French PAJ FA and the Russian SAP-518. Guess what they chose? The SAP-518.
Malaysia chose French NAVFLIR, HUD and Damocles targeting pods over Russian. They chose South African RWR and on-board monitoring over Russian. Malaysia didn't buy ECM pods. IAF doesn't use Russian ECM pods, they use Israeli Elta. Russian avionics are obsolete... obviously.
 

JAISWAL

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Russia Must Build Two Variants of 5G Fighter - Rogozin | Defense | RIA Novosti

Russian aircraft manufacturers must develop at least two competitive prototypes of a fifth-generation fighter jet, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said on Thursday.

"Two variants of the future fighter jet must be developed to encourage competition," Rogozin said at a meeting with Russian lawmakers.

According to the Russian Defense Ministry, the future fighter must possess all technical characteristics of a fifth-generation fighter, including elements of stealth technology, supersonic cruising speed, highly-integrated avionics, electronics and fire-control systems.

The existing T-50 prototype, developed under the program PAK FA (Future Aviation System for Tactical Air Force) at the Sukhoi aircraft design bureau, made its maiden flight in Russia's Far East in January 2010 and made its first public appearance at the MAKS-2011 air show near Moscow on August 17, 2011.

There are currently three fifth-generation T-50 fighters in tests, and a total number of 14 aircraft is planned for test flights by 2015.

The T-50 is expected to enter service in 2016 and gradually replace MiG-29 Fulcrum and Su-27 Flanker fighter jets in the Russian Air Force.
 

p2prada

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You can ignore Chief of the VVS? :rofl:
Yes. You can. They obviously want even more advanced versions. They want way higher capability because they want the capability to challenge the US, China and Europe militarily. Their requirements are way higher than France's and obviously much more in capacity.

Malaysia chose French NAVFLIR, HUD and Damocles targeting pods over Russian. They chose South African RWR and on-board monitoring over Russian. Malaysia didn't buy ECM pods. IAF doesn't use Russian ECM pods, they use Israeli Elta. Russian avionics are obsolete... obviously.
Both SAP models mentioned have reportedly been exported with SAP 518 being the first. IAF chose the Israeli jammer as an interim supposedly because of our quicker induction dates while RMAF had no such issues.

The picture of MKI prototype carrying the SAP seems to be at the time when the pods were in development. So, it is very obvious it is a contender for IAF's requirements. Perhaps the next air show will shed more light.

Btw, some info from Irkut.
IRKUT Corporation :: Press Release Archives :: THE FIRST TWO SERIALLY PRODUCED Su-30MKM FIGHTERS FOR THE ROYAL MALAYSIAN AIR FORCE HAS BEEN DEMONSTRATED
The electronic warfare (EW) system, up-to-date radar (with a phased antenna array capable of simultaneously tracking 15 and attacking 4 targets), optic-location system with the laser rangefinder are all produced by leading Russian manufacturers.
The SAP 518s were exported. It was chosen over French OEMs, guaranteed.

The Su-30MKM is actually superior to the MKI in some respects, until the upgrade happens.
 

p2prada

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Found one more source from Take off 2009

In addition to the South African systems,
the Su-30MKM's self-defence suite comprises
an upgraded Russian radar-warning receiver,
Russian electronic countermeasures (ECM)
system in two pods mounted on wingtips,
and Russian passive IR dispensers in the tail
section (98 cartridges with flares and chaff).
http://en.take-off.ru/pdf_to/to09.pdf
 

Armand2REP

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Yes. You can. They obviously want even more advanced versions. They want way higher capability because they want the capability to challenge the US, China and Europe militarily. Their requirements are way higher than France's and obviously much more in capacity.
Obviously you can. Sweep all reality under the rug to fit a diluted fantasy of Russian fanboyism. You stick to dreams while the rest of us stick to facts.

Both SAP models mentioned have reportedly been exported with SAP 518 being the first. IAF chose the Israeli jammer as an interim supposedly because of our quicker induction dates while RMAF had no such issues.
SAP 518 hasn't been exported anywhere.

RMAF Chief said:
Kanwa: Are you satisfied with after-sales service Su-30MKM?

Well, first of all, this type of aircraft is in the state, which we call initial operational readiness - at least those airplanes that we received. And we have not done the aircraft fully operational. We to cancelled the ECM as not meeting goals. Need something else to solve. But except for these things no problem. I still have a little talk on the issue of maintaining the life cycle, they developed a system for aircraft maintenance.

Interview with Malaysia's Air Force Commander
The picture of MKI prototype carrying the SAP seems to be at the time when the pods were in development. So, it is very obvious it is a contender for IAF's requirements. Perhaps the next air show will shed more light.
Those are the pods RuAF is having problems with... "inferior to Western aircraft."

Btw, some info from Algeria
They had no choice but to suck up Israeli Elta pods even though they hate Isreal because Russia had nothing modern to offer.

The SAP 518s were exported. It was chosen over French OEMs, guaranteed.
French avionics make 12% the value of the MKM and it don't include SAP 518s. :laugh:

The Su-30MKM is actually superior to the MKI in some respects, until the upgrade happens.
Its superior because it has so much French kit.
 

p2prada

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Obviously you can. Sweep all reality under the rug to fit a diluted fantasy of Russian fanboyism. You stick to dreams while the rest of us stick to facts.
There are things which IAF chiefs say too, which I believe only in specific cases. Rather I believe what the junior officers say. A lot of air chiefs make political statements.

It looks like IAF will employ the SAP pods.

SAP 518 hasn't been exported anywhere.
Yes it has. From reports, it has been exported to both India and Malaysia. The Malaysians chose the SAP over the French pods. :laugh:

Those are the pods RuAF is having problems with... "inferior to Western aircraft."
Whatever the case, the Malaysians chose Russian jammers over French options. India will be upgrading the MKI with Russian jammers as well. A simple MAKS-09 photograph attests to that.

They had no choice but to suck up Israeli Elta pods even though they hate Isreal because Russia had nothing modern to offer.
The Algerian specification is the exact same as the Indian specification. The Russians gave them the MKAs instead of the Mig-29smt at the same cost. That's why it got cheaper for Algeria to induct them. It's not like they had a choice, they did not want to spend so much. There were other political problems associated with the Mig-29s. Other than that it seems Algeria will be the first Su-35 customer.

French avionics make 12% the value of the MKM and it don't include SAP 518s. :laugh:
Obvious. SAP isn't French, it is Russian.:rolleyes:

Its superior because it has so much French kit.
MKM is slightly superior because it has South African kit like LWS and MAWS which the MKI and MKA lack as of today. It has nothing to do with French kits. The only reason why MKI does not have the Topsight is because it was never ready when MKIs was configured. But it isn't a big disadvantage because the Russian kit mated with the R-73 is pretty good. We have something like 4000 R-73s.

Now the only reason why MKIs will get Topsight is because the rights have been handed over to an Indian company called SAMTEL which collaborated with Thales for it's design and development.

However you have completely digressed from the topic at hand. Russia sold their SAP-518s and Malaysia bought them over the French options.:wave:
 

Drsomnath999

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The RBE2 in that report is the same one that flies on Rafale today. It wasn't designed to have greater range at the expense of LPI. The problem is resolved with the induction of RBE2 AA, not by fixing the existing PESA. It isn't a problem except for Dassault to sell it when it is designed that way. Zhuk AE was stated to meet the MMRCA requirements in tests two weeks earlier and failed. It wasn't just a problem of range but also tracking/acquisition capabilities.
but most probably Zhuk AE would take care of that problems no big deal as i stated earliaer ,also MIG 29k of indian navy is also having the same radar
and they havent reported any problem yet




The defencive systems on Su-35 are inferior to Western samples and are stalling development.
well it depends upon what criteria u r comparing it as inferior to western standards but russia claims it all it's avionics are of 5th gen standard .
Even US & ANti rafale group says SPectra is inferior due to it's out dated software but would u beleive it ???? NO .
every country states it's rival country's technology as inferior so we should not only based our judgement s based on another's opinion
 

ptldM3

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You only hear what you want to hear... hopeless. :facepalm:

The truth is hard to swallow isn't it? A Russian system was chosen over a French one, you claiming otherwise is just an attempt to cover face--Irkut clearly states on their webpage that the MKM uses Russian ECM's. And what about Indian Mirages, arn't they equiped with Israeli systems? So what does that say about French systems? What about Israeli F-15 and F-16, they are equiped with Israeli systems, what does that say? Could it mean that Isreali systems are better, or perhaps that the Israeli systems met Isreali requirments more so than generic US kits.

The SU-30 offers a lot of flexibility which is why it is such an attractive platform. Russia allows integration of forign avionics in much of their platforms thus some customers will choose different systems based on requirments, and as far as i'm aware not every aircraft manufacturer allows this kind of freedom.

The Super 30 contract was given to a Russian company not french not anyone, that says a lot about about the confidence in Russian systems.
 
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Drsomnath999

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The truth is hard to swallow isn't it? A Russian system was chosen over a French one, you claiming otherwise is just an attempt to cover face--Irkut clearly states on their webpage that the MKM uses Russian ECM's. And what about Indian Mirages, arn't they equiped with Israeli systems? So what does that say about French systems? What about Israeli F-15 and F-16, they are equiped with Israeli systems, what does that say? Could it mean that Isreali systems are better, or perhaps that the Israeli systems met Isreali requirments more so than generic US kits.

The SU-30 offers a lot of flexibility which is why it is such an attractive platform. Russia allows integration of forign avionics in much of their platforms thus some customers will choose different systems based on requirments, and as far as i'm aware not every aircraft manufacturer allows this kind of freedom.

The Super 30 contract was given to a Russian company not french not anyone, that says a lot about about the confidence in Russian systems.
hi pdlm t3 gud to see u buddy here
BTW isreali are also offering Rafeal litening pod for RAFALE also for indian AIr force MMRCA deal :lol:
Israeli systems in the new Indian fighter aircraft?
 

Armand2REP

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The truth is hard to swallow isn't it? A Russian system was chosen over a French one, you claiming otherwise is just an attempt to cover face--Irkut clearly states on their webpage that the MKM uses Russian ECM's.
Irkut said that in 2007, RMAF Chief said in 2010 that it was cancelled because it didn't meet its specifications. So clearly it doesn't use it. Russia can't deliver what it promises... nothing new there. :rolleyes:

And what about Indian Mirages, arn't they equiped with Israeli systems? So what does that say about French systems?
M2000-H flies with the Thales Remora II pod.



The upgrade includes new Thales PAF JA pods.

What about Israeli F-15 and F-16, they are equiped with Israeli systems, what does that say? Could it mean that Isreali systems are better, or perhaps that the Israeli systems met Isreali requirments more so than generic US kits.
Why wouldn't Israel put their own pods on their own planes? That doesn't say anything except indigenisation.

The SU-30 offers a lot of flexibility which is why it is such an attractive platform. Russia allows integration of forign avionics in much of their platforms thus some customers will choose different systems based on requirments, and as far as i'm aware not every aircraft manufacturer allows this kind of freedom.
Russia allows integration because countries don't want to buy obsolete Soviet avionics. Even your own flag has license production for French avionics... Sagem laser-gyro INS, Thales Damocles targeting pods, ect. Russia doesn't want them to buy foreign avionics, but they wouldn't sell any planes if they didn't.

The Super 30 contract was given to a Russian company not french not anyone, that says a lot about about the confidence in Russian systems.
If IAF gave the Super 30 upgrade to another country it would break the end-user agreement. Only Russia is cleared to authorise changes to the aircraft. It doesn't say anything about the confidence in it. In fact, Russia switching to Damocles and Sagem INS shows the complete lack of their optronics and navigation sectors.
 

p2prada

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You only hear what you want to hear... hopeless. :facepalm:
I have no problems claiming some French systems can be better than what we can get from Russia. At the same time I have no problems saying some Russian systems are way better. Similarly I have no problems saying a lot of our own systems are useless. All my posts hint at that.

You have a tendency of not giving credit where it is due. You have an extreme bias towards any system that is not French and you depend on decade old news as a means to judge Russian capability which has far evolved since those times.

Stomaching the fact that the Malaysians chose a Russian system is just some regular Joe news for me. You were also quick to point out that the Virgilius was Russian and was obsolete when it is even more up to date than the Spectra is.

Let's not forget the fact that the Tejas missile armament tender was won by the Israelis and not the French. Else we would be seeing the Topsight E and Mica on it rather than Dash IV with Python V/Derby combo.

Russia is no longer the Russia of 10 years ago.

As far as military technology is concerned, France is just another supplier. There is nothing unique that France possesses which awards it a special status like Russia or Israel have.

There are a lot of things that France cannot supply to India simply because the technology is non existent. There are a lot of things that France can supply to India, but will have to compete with other suppliers. Then there are some technologies France possesses which are simply not required by India. Time to wake up to these facts.
 

ptldM3

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Irkut said that in 2007, RMAF Chief said in 2010 that it was cancelled because it didn't meet its specifications. So clearly it doesn't use it. Russia can't deliver what it promises... nothing new there. :rolleyes:
Russia is choosing to equip its aircraft with the SAP-518 even though they can get French and maybe even Israeli or perhaps South African jammers. As for the MKM, last I heard it was to use Russian ECM's, I have not heard anything about cancellations, even if the Malaysians opted for something else over the SAP-518 there is nothing to suggest that it is a bad system considering it is still new and will likely find export customers at some point. Furthermore, Sukhoi allows deep customizations to their aircraft, does Dassault? If Dassault allowed India the same freedom with the Rafale as the Russians have with the SU-30, I would bet my money that they would replace some French systems too.

And as for Russia not delivering what it promises, well Dassault criticized the RBE2 by calling it fatally flawed and having inadequate range.



M2000-H flies with the Thales Remora II pod.


The upgrade includes new Thales PAF JA pods.

I wasn't talking about ECM. Did you know that there are Mirage variants that have had Russian engines? Or that there are Mirage variants that have had US avionics?



Why wouldn't Israel put their own pods on their own planes? That doesn't say anything except indigenisation.

Why would Israel go through the headache of installing inferior avionics? Avionics can be very subjective, while the Americans did not like Russia HUDs that displayed radar information due to too much information the Israelis were impressed., so if the Israelis' built HUDs based closely to ones of Russian origin to replace US HUDs does that make the US HUDs worse? I would say that it does not; I would say that it comes down to preference and a different school of thought.



Russia allows integration because countries don't want to buy obsolete Soviet avionics. Even your own flag has license production for French avionics... Sagem laser-gyro INS, Thales Damocles targeting pods, ect. Russia doesn't want them to buy foreign avionics, but they wouldn't sell any planes if they didn't.

This is a pretty silly argument, there are plenty of countries that purchase plain/generic Russian aircraft with Russian avionics. Open architecture is very attractive for potential customers because it allows the aircraft to be customized to their specific needs and requirements as long as a third party supplier is willing to sell. The French can take a lesson from the Russians, perhaps than they would get more customers than India.

And lets be honest, the reason aircraft such as the Flanker sell is because they offer a unique combination of long range, high weapons load, extreme maneuverability and solid avionics. There are very few aircraft in history that can even come close to achieving all those unique characteristics.

I think your blind obsession with French electronics is based on national pride. A bit off topic but a Russian tank instructor in the United Arab Emirates has seen first hand how good French systems can be. Firstly he liked to Leclerc and praised its cannon, if I recall correctly he stated that it was extremely accurate hit probability was 90% or 95% except there was problems, the fire control system was very flawed, he said it had to be recalibrated after very short periods, the temperature insider the tank had to always be 72 degrees otherwise some of the electronics would stop working, the tank was also always breaking down, one technician started crying because he was assigned to the Leclerc. I personally like many French systems, I think highly of French technology and regard many French systems as good as anything. However, French systems are not gods gift to Humans and many French systems have had major flaws.



If IAF gave the Super 30 upgrade to another country it would break the end-user agreement. Only Russia is cleared to authorise changes to the aircraft. It doesn't say anything about the confidence in it. In fact, Russia switching to Damocles and Sagem INS shows the complete lack of their optronics and navigation sectors.

Thus far Russian has allowed India to do anything it likes to their SU-30's. The Super 30 contract could have gone to HAL, the Super 30 could have integrated more French avionics or more Israeli avionics, but as it stands the Indians want to replace some of the 'western' systems with their own and the way things are looking the super 30 will likely have more Russian avionics than the current MKI's.



You were also quick to point out that the Virgilius was Russian and was obsolete when it is even more up to date than the Spectra is.
Wow did he really say that? That is very petty. Last time I checked the Virgilius was a western system that uses AESA technology, if my mind serves me correct. The man's mind is predetermined to label anything that is Russian as inferior even though he has no technical proof to back his claim. I can bet if the Spectra was Russian he would also call it outdated/inadequate.
 

p2prada

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Wow did he really say that? That is very petty. Last time I checked the Virgilius was a western system that uses AESA technology, if my mind serves me correct. The man's mind is predetermined to label anything that is Russian as inferior even though he has no technical proof to back his claim. I can bet if the Spectra was Russian he would also call it outdated/inadequate.
He did not know Mig-35 had the Virgilius. His post from the previous page;

http://defenceforumindia.com/indian-air-force/8276-pakfa-fgfa-news-discussions-120.html#post423893

You even quoted it in the very next post. :D
 

Armand2REP

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PAK-FA: truth and myths. We need a new concept for our combat aircraft
18.02.2012 22:36

PAK-FA: truth and myths. We need a new concept for our military aviation

Just over two years ago, Russia lifted into the air our first fifth-generation fighter PAK FA. The debut of the new Russian aircraft was shown on all television channels around the world. Indeed, it was the first time in 20 years a new warplane since the fall of the Soviet Union was constructed in Russia. However, in addition to cheers and stories about the benefits of the new aircraft that are acting more like a public relations company, analytical articles, there are many professionals and experts both in Russia and abroad that are not so clearly appreciating the Russian know-how. There is no doubt that the PAK FA took off and is now undergoing factory testing - a huge success for the Russian military aviation, but the assessment of the aircraft must be held in an impartial manner, to avoid unnecessary myths and legends. Attempting such an independent analysis is presented below.

PAK-FA: What is it?

What is the PAK-FA in its finished form? In many media as approved by the truth that the T-50 (also known as a fighter), the first since the 80s of the last century, is a radically new aircraft for air superiority which has an original aerodynamic layout that complies with all requirements of stealth technology. It appears this is not true. In the Sukhoi Design Bureau, allegedly veteran of the company this arrangement was considered back in the days when Stealth Technology in the world nobody had even heard of. This was way back in 1974 then in the "one hundredth" department (the department of common species) has been worked out so-called "auxiliary" layout of the Su-27, which was called the T10/12. However, further drawings did not recieve, but despite this it became the basis of T-50. So talk about a revolution in aerodynamic design is clearly not necessary. It is contrary to the claims that came from the Soviet times as a reserve. By the way, a copy of the T-10 aircraft (the index of the Su-27) can now be seen by anyone in the Central Air Force Museum in Monino. If you look closely, the old T-10 looks similar to the T-50 is much closer than with the serial Su-27.

Another interesting point is the inner filling of the aircraft. As you know, at this point PAK FA has a number of contingency systems, and some of it is non-existent (radar, for example). And if the lack of radar during the passage of the first production test can be somehow understood, the presence of an airplane's freelance engine 117M (which was made for the Su-35) leads to some doubt. Moreover, it has been officially announced that the PAK FA program will be divided into two stages. On the ground ostensibly will create the T-50 engine with 117M with many systems (including radar) from the serial production Su-35 fighter. In 2012 or 2013 is scheduled to complete fighter tests with all systems and staff of "Saturn" engine under the mysterious name "Item 129". At the same time it is unclear how the plane (first or second stage) will be put into production in 2015.

All of this seems more than strange, especially amid reports that only in 2016 will be developed the first prototype aircraft engine for the new generation PAK FA, as reported in early February, CEO of United Industrial Corporation "Oboronprom" Andrey Reus. That is it turns out the plane runs on a series of old engines which now stand on the Su-35?

In general, the fighter, as a complex weapons complex, to be called fifth-generation aircraft should be available in all systems of the same fifth generation. In other words, the T-50 fighter, which is now being tested is not a fifth-generation aircraft. It is roughly speaking, not clear what it is. Its characteristics are likely to be slightly worse than the same Su-35, which belong to a generation 4 + +. The only thing that radar cross-section of the new items will be somewhat less due to a special aerodynamic design and the special coating, unless of course it will be applied. As for the 117M engine, which apparently still acting up judging by the incident with the PAK-FA at MAX 2011 is still apparent with them. "Stealth" will not be able to go supersonic without afterburner.

And because of the lack of thrust, the thrust-to-weight ratio is also a big question. Finally, no new avionics in PAK FA will not be able to deal effectively with the American stealth-aircraft (and this is one of its main objectives). In addition, the installation of radar "Irbis" from the Su-35 makes use of missiles on this machine, which, of course are not able to provide solutions to the tasks assigned to the fifth-generation fighter.

The question is, what is the point to test a plane in the absence of standard equipment and avionics, some components of which have not even been invented? And while many "aviation analysts' claim that this machine will allow without waiting for full-time availability engine and other systems that spend most of the trials of the new machine, it all looks at least funny. From a technical point of view to take and replace the single-engine to another plane is not easy and it can lead to serious consequences. In such a situation everything could lead to a crawl - from the alignment of the machine to its dimensions and layout.

Prospects for a new engine is also very uncertain. Once at "Saturn" was working on a fifth-generation engine AL-41F with a maximum thrust of 20 tons under the version of the fighter MiG 1.44 but it and the aircraft itself not brought to reality. But even if the work is going at full speed to develop, debug and staging a series of new engines will require far more than a year. It's not possible by 2016 and may be possible by 2020, we continue to read the tea leaves.

According to experts, the only thing the "Saturn" will try to do is overclocked the 117M engine (option checked the AL-31F) to a maximum thrust of 17 tons Moreover it probably is. But this in turn can lead to a fall in complex flight characteristics of the T-50 and finally which can make the aircraft not ranked as the fifth generation.

Things are no better with other systems for the PAK FA. For example, the design of radar AFAR by NIIP. Tikhomirov for years waged research at their own expense. As is the case today with the financing of this work is unclear. Will there be a sustained period of its testing and mass production? Is our business in this area good to start? It is unlikely they will be able to keep within a very short period of time to develop a series of systems.

Even experts are paying attention to an integrally broken airplane. The aircraft is seen having large losses in balancing lift around the center of gravity. This is another argument in favor of the most important parameter of a new generation of fighter planes - supersonic cruise, or the other - efficiency at supersonic speed - our new fighter is unlikely to be achieved.

Russian invention caused no special enthusiasm here or abroad. In particular, one of the rooms Combat Aircraft is one of the leading international experts in the field of military aviation, John Lake gave his independent view. In his view, the layout of the new fighter jet made by our designers from scratch is a variant of the Su-27, as noted above. He also doubts that by being made of 75% titanium (ie, having a relatively low percentage of structural materials and carbon fiber composites), T-50 will have an equally low radar cross-section like the F-22. But the most important thing in the West questions the assertions of Russian specialists that the aircraft will be using modern electronic equipment. Doubt this will be any more or less as a literate person knows that the Russian electronics industry in the last 20 years virtually ceased to exist and is not able to produce "high-end processors," but even more simple things. Finally, this kind of technology is very complicated to use. Even the Americans are having regular problems with the on-board computer of the F-22 from the operating system restarting when crossing the date-line to the turn off the engine when bombing. It is unclear just what our officials are doing so pompously making hat-throwing statements? Again a cheap PR.

As announced at the top, the timing of launch of production are completely unrealistic Lake said. Export prospects for the T-50, in his opinion, is not very impressive. And it's not that the aircraft will be bad or that it will not be in-demand, but because the Russian aircraft industry simply can not produce such an aircraft in quite a large number will not be able to comply with the delivery schedule of existing contracts. Not to mention the security of machine quality, technical support and spare parts. This is especially true against the background of the officials saying that allegedly by the year 2050 will be produced over a thousand of these machines. And given how we have fulfilled the promises on the issue of civilian aircraft, then it becomes immediately clear. The next myth.

From just above begs the disappointing conclusion. To design the plane, we can even build a few copies but to put it in series production (and hence mass-produce engines, avionics and weapons of good quality for it) is very doubtful.

What is the fifth-generation fighter we need? As you know any weapon designed, tested and sharpened for a certain specific purpose. This purpose or need for any form of arms, all over the world is defined by its military doctrine. In this regard, it is easy to understand why the stealth fighter is wanted by the Americans - to incite a global world order by any means, including military. This is evidenced by the many local wars started by them in the past two decades. Accordingly, the stealth fighters (the fifth-generation fighter aircraft) must be accompanied by their bombers and gain air superiority. In other words, it is sharpened by strike planes. Why does Russia need stealth aircraft, a country which according to our military doctrine is not going to attack anyone. From the lips of the leaders of our country can be heard: we need to achieve parity with the United States. That is, in their opinion, our T-50 - is an adequate response to the creation of American fighters like the F-22 and F-35. An adequate response to any action that does not commit the same action, and a set of measures that will make the initial action useless. In Soviet times, the creation of American aircraft carriers, the Soviet Union responded asymmetrically - created a heavy atomic cruiser with anti-ship missiles and heavy bombers. It seems that in this case, an adequate response to the creation of American F-22 will not create the same characteristics of the machine, and the development of fighter aircraft capable of effectively destroying the Raptor, a fighter that is the fifth generation fighter, and make the plane, similar to the F-22, simply makes no sense. In this regard, the base rate should be made to protect, not attack.

The most important thing for such a machine: it has a radar, able to "pinpoint" stealth aircraft missile systems and quality missiles to shoot down the enemy. By the way, the Europeans have chosen the option of its fighter aircraft. They are not going to, and can no longer financially afford to invest billions in a new "toy". Instead, the majority of European advanced fighter aircraft such as Eurofighter and the Dassault Rafale, is planned for future installation of radar that can "pinpoint" stealth without further ado, these machines will transform into planes that can win the struggle. As the saying goes, "cheap and cheerful." Russia in its original boundaries and the historical orientation of the Armed Forces for defense, the best option would be to go for it this way.

Unfortunately, today's purchasing strategy and design of weapons in Russia do not always adequately reflect the needs of the country itself in these weapons. PAK-FA could be a victim of this policy, and in the presence of the existing problems in the aviation industry, "efficiently out-of-touch", which are carefully masked by colorful PR in the media, the prospects for the domestic fifth-generation fighter look very unique. Of course the PAK FA - the success of the domestic aviation industry, but what is success - real or mythical? I think that time will put everything in its place.

ПАК ФА: правда и мифы. Нужна новая концепция нашей боевой авиации - svodka.net
 
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Armand2REP

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It is abundantly clear Russia's avionics industry is in shambles looking for its identity. It isn't able to meet the demands of 5th gen avionics to equip the PAK FA. They have put all their eggs in one basket for the future of their fighter industry. They went on a mad-hunt for partners on this project: Brasil, France and India to name them. Brasil is likely going with Rafale as well as France developing it and going into stealth UCAVs. They approached France to equip Thales avionics but transferring such technology isn't possible in NATO. The only one to bite was India. After much debate and assurance, GoI finally cut them a check for $147.5 million. This installment isn't free of scrutiny. Technocrats are closely observing progress of PAK FA development, especially its avionics. At the same time, India has selected France to infuse them with the 5th generation avionics the PAK FA lacks. It is effectively India's back-up plan in case Russia falls on its face as usual. When it does, France will be there to pick up the pieces and replace them.
 

ptldM3

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It is abundantly clear Russia's avionics industry is in shambles looking for its identity. It isn't able to meet the demands of 5th gen avionics to equip the PAK FA. They have put all their eggs in one basket for the future of their fighter industry. They went on a mad-hunt for partners on this project: Brasil, France and India to name them. Brasil is likely going with Rafale as well as France developing it and going into stealth UCAVs. They approached France to equip Thales avionics but transferring such technology isn't possible in NATO. The only one to bite was India. After much debate and assurance, GoI finally cut them a check for $147.5 million. This installment isn't free of scrutiny. Technocrats are closely observing progress of PAK FA development, especially its avionics. At the same time, India has selected France to infuse them with the 5th generation avionics the PAK FA lacks. It is effectively India's back-up plan in case Russia falls on its face as usual. When it does, France will be there to pick up the pieces and replace them.
Nice article, I especial find the part about the pak-fa being 'slightly worse' than the SU-35 amusing. :rolleyes: The scrutiny of the pak-fa's avionics is also illogical when no factual data is available.

As for India selecting France to 'infuse' the pak-fa, you have a source? The French contribution to the MKI is minor, what did France provide, the Litening pod, navigation, and LCD's which India wants to replace. The core avionics of the MKI is still Russian/Indian. There is no need to worry about Russia falling on its face when France still struggles to make a real good radar. The RBE2 is good but it falls on its face compared to the Irbis-E. It's no wonder why French aircraft have performed miserably in BVR combat even against less than stellar aircraft such as the Harrier.
 

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